Newbie Question

[5Wire]

I recieved two LED flashlights as gifts: A Nitecore Extreme and a Fenix TK10. Both lights will accept the 3v CR123A lithium or li-ion rechargeable batteries. The Nitecore will also accept the 3.6v CR16340. I emailed 4Sevens to see if the TK10 would also accept the CR16340 and 'Trevor' replied, "The tk10 can accept that cell."

I have a bunch of the 16340s, are their advantages or disadvantages to using them in either light? The Nitecore emits more light with the 16340, but other than that, I'm clueless. Any suggestions, help, references will be appreciated.

 

[Viper715]

The advantage is free lumens. Using rechargeables is cheaper were primaries cost more in the long run. The disadvantage is between 1/2 and1/3 the runtimes on rechargeable compared to primaries. I woud use the 16340 but have primaries around for backup.

 

[5Wire]

....I would use the 16340 but have primaries around for backup.

Thanks for your prompt reply. That's more or less what I've been thinking but I still have a niggling concern about the voltage difference perhaps having an adverse effect on the Fenix TK10 LED. I'm just learning about this stuff.

 

[Oddjob]

Thanks for your prompt reply. That's more or less what I've been thinking but I still have a niggling concern about the voltage difference perhaps having an adverse effect on the Fenix TK10 LED. I'm just learning about this stuff.

As long as the light in question states in their specs that they can take the voltage there shouldn't be a problem.
I may sound like a broken record but I always urge newcomers to research proper use of Li-Ion cells. Get reputable cells (AW cells are popular here) and a decent charger for starters (like the Pila IBC).

 

[5Wire]

As long as the light in question states in their specs that they can take the voltage there shouldn't be a problem.
I may sound like a broken record but I always urge newcomers to research proper use of Li-Ion cells. Get reputable cells (AW cells are popular here) and a decent charger for starters (like the Pila IBC).

In the process of doing research on the TK10, I communicated with 4Sevens about the use of the Rechargeable 16340 Li-Ion and got the reply I posted to start the thread. There is nothing to encourage or discourage use of the 16340 3.6v, or ant 3.6v, cell on the Fenix/4Sevens site or in the product literature that came with the TK10.

 

[5Wire]

FYI Re: Newbie Question

Fenix answered the question, Joyce in customer service wrote: "Yes, you can use 3.6v 16340 880 mAh Li-Ion rechargeable batteries in the TK10, and please use the superior brand with protected-circuit, it will be good for the light and battery itself."

 

[Marduke]

Re: FYI Re: Newbie Question

You will get less runtime.

AW's cells are considered the best.

 

[5Wire]

Re: FYI Re: Newbie Question

You will get less runtime.

AW's cells are considered the best.

Runtime because of fewer mHa? What makes AW considered the best? I have higher capacity primaries for backup.

Got a link for AW? The only ones I saw at ATTBATT were 3v 350 mHa and cost $29.69 for two. Battery Junction has the 3.6 v 880 mAh 16340s for $7.90 for two, plus shipping in both cases. What am I missing?

 

[Oddjob]

Re: FYI Re: Newbie Question

Because of the mAh? I have higher capacity primaries for backup.

Yes Li-Ion have about half the capacity of primaries, sometimes even a third of the capacity depending on the cell. As Marduke said, AW cells are popular and highly recommended here. Definitely recharge them frequently as opposed to letting them get deeply discharged and protected cells are safer as well.

 

[5Wire]

Re: FYI Re: Newbie Question

Yes Li-Ion have about half the capacity of primaries, sometimes even a third of the capacity depending on the cell. As Marduke said, AW cells are popular and highly recommended here. Definitely recharge them frequently as opposed to letting them get deeply discharged and protected cells are safer as well.

If capacity is expressed in mAh, the cells I'm looking at don't seem to have that disparity. I cycle through 5 16340s about every week so I have two in the charger, one in the Nitecore Extreme and one or two as backup.

 

[Marduke]

Re: FYI Re: Newbie Question

A 16340 has less than half the stored energy of a primary. Don't just believe the label.

 

[Oddjob]

+1 with Marduke. IIRC, I have read that some cells labelled as 750 mAh were closer to 500 to 600 mAh. Even some lower quality cells that were lablelled 900 mAh were also in reality in the 500 mAh range.

 

[5Wire]

+1 with Marduke. IIRC, I have read that some cells labeled as 750 mAh were closer to 500 to 600 mAh. Even some lower quality cells that were labeled 900 mAh were also in reality in the 500 mAh range.

OK, I see that. If run time is the deciding factor, more mAh is better.

How do you evaluate the cost? Once you've recharged a four dollar 880 mHa cell, say 50 times, you have used the equivalent of about 28 1550 mAh cells. Primaries would have to cost less than 14 cents each to show an advantage.

I can definitely see the wisdom in having high endurance primaries available but for EDC I would think rechargeable cells would be more favorable to the wallet.

 

[Marduke]

They are, no one said they weren't.

 

[soulrider]

Re: FYI Re: Newbie Question

Yes Li-Ion have about half the capacity of primaries, sometimes even a third of the capacity depending on the cell. As Marduke said, AW cells are popular and highly recommended here. Definitely recharge them frequently as opposed to letting them get deeply discharged and protected cells are safer as well.

I don't want to hijack the thread here but I have a question regarding part of the above comment. In the above statement "Yes Li-Ion have about half the capacity of primaries, somtimes even a third of the capacity depending on the cell." (bold is mine) it seems to suggest/imply that rechargeable Li-Ion cells are Lithium Ion and that Primaries are something else. I have seen this worded this way many times in other posts. Is this just a common way of referring to rechargeable Li-Ion batteries as opposed to Non rechargeable Li-Ion batteries. Maybe I'm just nitpicking here but I see this terminology (Li-Ion vs Primary) used a lot and think it might confuse some into thinking primaries are not Li-Ion. It is my understanding that Primary simply refers to non-rechargeable regardless as to whether it's Li-Ion or not. Am I correct on this. Sorry for the thread drift.

 

[Marduke]

Re: FYI Re: Newbie Question

No, primaries are actually a different chemistry. That is why they are a different voltage and capacities.

 

[Oddjob]

Re: FYI Re: Newbie Question

I don't want to hijack the thread here but I have a question regarding part of the above comment. In the above statement "Yes Li-Ion have about half the capacity of primaries, somtimes even a third of the capacity depending on the cell." (bold is mine) it seems to suggest/imply that rechargeable Li-Ion cells are Lithium Ion and that Primaries are something else. I have seen this worded this way many times in other posts. Is this just a common way of referring to rechargeable Li-Ion batteries as opposed to Non rechargeable Li-Ion batteries. Maybe I'm just nitpicking here but I see this terminology (Li-Ion vs Primary) used a lot and think it might confuse some into thinking primaries are not Li-Ion. It is my understanding that Primary simply refers to non-rechargeable regardless as to whether it's Li-Ion or not. Am I correct on this. Sorry for the thread drift.

I think 3 volt lithium primaries are lithium mangonese dioxide and AA size lithiums are lithium iron disulfide.
Rechargeable Lithium-ions can be cobalt, manganese or phosphate based.

 

[5Wire]

They are, no one said they weren't.

Including me, I was sort of asking a question. Thanks for the confirmation.