Nickel Iron Batteries Ideal for Solar Homes

LEDBE
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isoutar

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
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I am reposting this is a better area of the forum.

In Canada the Nickel Iron Battery is being looked at once again for solar homes. The In Europe the flooded Nickel Cadmium battery is about to be banned. Nickel Iron will be the replacement. The Chinese have put 20 years of research and manufacturing into this type of battery. In India they have developed a sealed Nickel Iron Battery that may be appropriate for cars and boats.

The Nickel Iron Battery is absolutely ideal for solar homes. The Wiki site now shows the true data for Nickel Iron Batteries. It is simply not true that they have a high discharge rate that affects solar home operation. The little discharge that occurs over a week is completely offset by the new energy is arriving daily The discharge rate is about 30% / month or about 1% per day ... very insignificant for solar applications.

The newest of the NiFe batteries are from China where over 20 years of research has gone into perfecting them. Why was NiFe abandoned in NA? Very simply it was driven out of the country by lead acid battery manufacturers who were horrified at a battery that lasted for 30 to 50 years on the average!

Here are the facts about their discontinuation in North America ...

1/ The Edison Storage Battery Company was formed in 1910 approximately by Thomas Edison. It was a very profitable company selling batteries for Canadian and USA trains until about 1972. The batteries were also used extensively in Canadian and USA mines for emergency power and for underground trains. Yet many sites claim that NiFe batteries do not work in the cold! Why then would they be used amost exclusively on Canadian trains from 1920 to 1972?

2/ The Edison Storage Battery Company was bought by the Exide (Lead Acid) Battery Company in 1972. The shareholders of Exide were told that Exide would begin manufacturing their own NiFe batteries soon.

3/ In 1975 the Exide Battery Company pulled Nickel Iron Batteries off the market and ceased manufacturing them completely by 1975.

There were many criticisms of Nickel Iron Batteries on this site ... almost all of them based on poor facts and no first hand knowledge of the batteries. Here is where the facts are found ...

The Nickel Iron Battery Association
http://www.nickel-iron-battery.com

You will see my house there with NiFe backup power for leading edge LED lights. I bought the components for the lights from http://www.ledsupply.com. Since my battery system varries from 20 volts to 36.4 volts I had to use a constant current source DC to DC supply from Digikey ... the LED supply ones would only handle 32 volts.

Check out the leading edge research in India from 2005 that succeeded in creating a sealed NiFe battery (thought to be impossible until then).

I have been using a NiFe battery system now for 6 months and the NiFe cells are simply amazing. I have charged them without a controller for the first few weeks ... overcharging them like crazy. Then I discharged them right to zero. They came back up and were improved in the energy storage capacity. Currently I am experimenting with a Maximum Power Point Controller from Outback using 80 volts of panels to charge a 30 volt system.

The rule of thumb for nickel iron is ...
They loved to be overchaged and be worked hard!

For solar homes NiFe batteries should be the standard.

Environmental Danger of Lead for Solar Home Proliferation
Suppose 1 million solar homes get built using 500 kg of lead acid batteries. It is estimated that in NA 3% of lead acid batteries never make it to recycling. That would mean that 15 million kilograms of lead ends up in rivers lakes and landfill sites every 10 years or so. If this actually happened no one could claim that solar homes were environmentally friendly!

With Nickel Iron batteries solar can be totally fully environmentally friendly. The expired KOH electrolyte can be used for cleaning barns (it is used for this by farmers) or it can be diluted down and used to neutralize acid soils. Nickel and Iron are very harmless compared to lead. The NIFe battery is not a consumable like a lead acid battery is!

It is true that under heavy load the voltage will go down ... but not by much ... they still produce enough current at a reasonable voltage to drive an inverter. In our experimental home we used DC power exclusively and high efficiency LED lighting. If you want to use an inverter, KiPoint (I think they are in Taiwan) will do a custom one. I discharge the nickel irons from 36.4 volts (equalize voltage) all the way down to 20 volts. I am about to order a custom inverter that can handle the almost 2/1 drop in voltage over a discharge and still produce a clean 120 VAC. It will only be used for a few appliances since we are slowly converting that house to run on DC,

So please ... do not assume the NiFe battery is dead. It is just like the movie "who killed the electric car?" The Nickel Iron Battery was considered by Edison to be the very best invention of his life. It was killed by the Exide Battery Company who also published false literature concerning its characteristics. Jay Leno owns two of the 1912 Detroit Electric cars and one of them is still running on the original NiFe battery! Does that sound like a battery that is useless!

Time to wake up the forum concerning Nickel Iron. There is much to discuss.

Ian Soutar
Vancouver Island BC.
 
Once I learned about NiFe I thought they were great. The only thing is they have a lower power to weight and power to volume ratio. So you need to be able to support the weight of the battery bank (not a big issue in a building) and have room for the larger volume (more of a generalized issue).

Otherwise with nearly 100% discharge capabilities with no damage in any term and their life span they are great.
 
Interesting stuff. I despise SLA batteries, because of their fragility; they need constant topping-up, are damaged when discharged to empty, and still like to die within a few years even when kept charged, as in uninterruptible power supplies. NiFe sounds like a good replacement for SLA in this application.
 
Re: Nickel Iron Batteries Advertisement

$1000 for a 12v 122ah battery that weighs 143lbs dry???

2 Energizer GC2 6v 200ah Lead batteries cost <$200. SamsClub/Costco... have these golf cart batteries.

I guess with the movement toward solar/wind energy, we'll definitely need idiot proof batteries. The only benefit that I see is that you can't screw up with them. Great for stupid users!

I had some car batteries last 10 years in a pretty tough underhood environment. I'd expect that they'd last longer in a better situation. So, whether I replace my batteries every 10 years, or get a 50yr battery, when comparing the cost, makes no difference to me in my lifetime.

I'm all for protecting the environment but think that the amount of lead recycling is understated. I find that many batteries just aren't recycled so that is where the 3% lost lead is. I've actually picked up broken batteries off the road, in the garbage, on abandoned property, forgotten in garages/basements... and dropped them off at the battery recycler. I think that the 3% of unrecycled lead is 'waiting' to be recycled somewhere.

If you want to sell us these batteries, use this forum:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/index.php?
 
I am starting to see nickel iron batteries sell in two markets ... scientific applications such as remote observatories and also for homes. In both situations the cost is not so much of an issue as is hte cost of replacing and recycling 500 kilograms of lead batteries every 5 to 8 years. Most solar homes are forced to abuse lead acid batteries and the batteries have a short life. The cost of moving 500 kg of batteries out and 500 kg of new ones back in at regular intervals represents a big cost. In the case of remote observatories the cost can be as high as 250,000 dollars or more for helicopter rental.

In my opinion the only reason that lead acid batteries exist is because of our "throw away" society habit. For many people they will compare only the price at purchase time and ignore all other costs ... but I am not such a person.

In my solar home I am using 200 Ah of NiFe battery, 700 watts of solar panels and I am building LED lights that have a 20 year lifespan or more and use 1/7th the power of incandescent lights. This is all done with DC ... and the nickel iron batteries that I drive hard ... charge at 36.1 volts and discharge to 20 volts. The LEDs are driven with a constant current ballast ... so that the lights remain constant brightness from 40 volts to 20 volts. So the whole system is designed to last the rest of my life. When trying to protect the earth this is the way to design things.

Energy Efficient Clothes Dryer Project
My other project is an energy efficient clothes dryer based on DC fans and the heat from the hot water tank. Just like in the UK, I am building a drying cupboard but with some improvements. It has a fan that blows air into the cupboard and there are two output vents ... one goes outside and the other goes upstairs where we need some extra humidity because of the wood stove that heats our house. The clothes are hung on hangers just like in a cupboard.

Later when I add solar hot water it will mean that the clothes dryer becomes solar!

I strongly believe that it is incorrect to simply try to add solar power to existing energy hungry devices. It will be more successful to re-design the appliances so that we can point the way to a better lifestyle. This lifestyle will make solar energy to easily run a house.

Ian Soutar
Vancouver Island.
 
Good posts!
NiFe is not very well known by common people, although it should be.
 
Nickel iron batteries are indeed extremely durable and abuse resistant, and can be recomended were a long reliable life is more important than least first cost.
However they have a major drawback, other than high initial cost.
The voltage variation between full charge and nearly discharged is too high for many applications.
For a nominal 12 volt system, 10 cells each of 1.2 volts might be selected.
At end of discharge, the voltage would drop to about 9 volts, this is too low for most lamps, inverters and other appliances designed for a nominal 12 volt system. If the discharge was halted at 11 volts, then a fair bit of the expensive battery capacity is unused.
To fully charge a 10 cell nickel iron battery requires as much as 17 volts, that is far to high for most lamps, inverters and other appliances designed for 12 volts nominal.
A 12 volt lead acid battery would normally be between 11.5 volts and 14.4 volts, a much smaller range.

The widely varying voltage complicates the systen design significantly.
Although the cells are resistant to overcharge, some regulation or control is desireable, and the charge comtroller will be non standard.

If line voltage is required, the inverter will have to be a special since regular types wont work with such a range of input voltage.

Most types of 12 volt lamp are primarily intended for vehicle use and will give a very poor light at 9 volts, and have a very short life at 17 volts.
For off grid homes, or emergencies, 12 volt appliances intended for vehicle use can be very useful, but not from a nickel iron battery.
One could of course use say a 20 cell battery, and a switched mode regulator to give a steady 13.8 volts into the load, that would work well but adds cost and something to go wrong.

Alternatively, if only lighting is required, then one could use regulated LED lamps, as posted above. That would work fine, but is restricting as regards use of other loads.

For long term use, a nickel iron battery, charged by PV, and lighting regulated LED lamps, should last a lifetime as posted above.
 
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I have had great luck with Nickel Iron Batteries and solar voltaic panels. There are 700 watts of solar panels on my roof and 22 200 amp hour nickel iron batteries in the garden shed. They are visible on the nickel iron battery association page ...

http://www.nickel-iron-battery.com

The house is now fully high powered warm white LED lit. The constant current regulators used for LEDs are available with an input voltage range for my system of 40 volts to 20 volts and there is no change in brightness. It is a great lighting system.

The NiFe batteries range from 36.4 volts during an equalization down to 20 volts which is the lowest I discharge them.

I am forever grateful that I never played with lead acid batteries and their short life and fancy dance that you have to do in order to prevent their destruction. The NiFe batteries I have overchaged for weeks sometimes or put loads on them and just drained them down to zero volts. Never a problem!

Solution for Inverters and NiFe
Some people claim that inverters do not work with NiFe batteries but that is because the inverters were designed for lead acid batteries ... of course they do not work right. The secret is to get KiPoint of Taiwan to custom make your inverters to cover the range you need. In my case (a 26.4 volt NiFe system) I simply specify the range that I need it to work at of 37 volts to 20 volts. You need to use an inverter that is designed for these batteries, or more accurately this is the better solution.

I would love to get feedback from others that are using Nickel Iron Battteries in their house?

Ian Soutar
Victoria BC Canada
 
That is what I figured too. No fancy dancy here. Just a little common sense.

Why would you run a battery down to "0"?

You size your panels, generator, wind or water turbine, battery capacity, battery....... for your usage.

If you run a battery down completely, either you don't have enough battery, or enough charging capability. Pretty simple to figure out.
 
Nickel Iron sounds great but the prices are more than decent panels these days.

I can get a sharp 2kW amorphous panel system, golf cart SLA's, charge controller, a 1kW wind mill and a dc led lighting system for less than what you have to pay for these NiFe batteries.

Then the highest quality panels are only rated for thirty years!
The batteries will wear out in like twenty with trickle charging.
The wind mill will require servicing in 20 years.
Led's will have to be replaced after 30 years.

We have to face it and everything will wear out and have to be replaced and or serviced. You have to replace and service everything else besides the NiFe batteries but what time and money are you saving? The environment is something to look after for but there is always going to be cigarettes on the side of the road and 50gal tanks are always going to be full but we have to minimize or revamp our habits.

Then for the comment on having to redesign appliances as we slowly change is great to point out.

The price needs to go down because a RICHER is the last person to think about the environment. With these prices you can save more money in using a hydrogen fuel cell...

Also what are the specs on your batteries like weight and are they acceptable to 140+F?

Interesting stuff and its always interesting to find out what has died for business interests.
 
pics of yr home, filled with solar panels and batteries would be a nice view :devil:

care to post some pics for us to drool .... :devil:
 
roadie said:
pics of yr home, filled with solar panels and batteries would be a nice view :devil:

care to post some pics for us to drool .... :devil:
Click to expand...

+1k as this would be great as I always like to see how differently people set their projects up. Please could someone post pics as this would be greatly appreciated.lovecpf
 
Well, the home page linked to above says they "will not be restocking or importing Nickel-Iron cells ... low volume of sales .... factors such as ... mixing of electrolyte/filling/cycling the cells, ... and the high cost of transport were also contributing factors. We are more than happy with the performance of the batteries and encourage you to look for other sources."

Anyone asked at DealExtreme?
 
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