NiMH pack charnging cycles...

Buck91

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I've read many different opinions on when to recharge a NiMH cell or pack. So people say to recharge after you get full use so as to maintain max capacity (eg: recharge when empty) and others say to keep it as topped up as possible to increase cell/pack life and prevent damage.

Which one of these outlooks is correct? I have a Niterider Sol with a NiMH pack and would like ot get the best possible life out of it.


On a seperate note, what about these li-poly batteries in cell phones now? It wasn't long ago manf. recommended you run your phone until dead to maintain the battery at max capacity. But I've read its better for these lithium rechargables to be kept topped off; is this true?
 
Hello Buck,

To get the most cycle life from a NiMh battery pack you need to start with a 16 hour 0.1C charge. This will form and balance the pack. Next you need to try to limit your discharge to around 70% of the packs total capacity. This should be your "standard" usage. Charge the pack on a charger that allows you to complete the charge in 1 - 2 hours.

Every 15 - 20 cycles you need to do a complete discharge down to 1.0 volts per cell followed by a 0.1C 16 hour charge.

If your pack is made up of high quality cells in the 1800 - 2200 mAh range, you may be able to get 500 - 800 cycles, or maybe even 1000 cycles from your pack.

Li-Po packs will last longer if they are frequently topped off. You don't want to over charge or over discharge them, and you don't want to store them fully charged or fully discharged. If you limit your use to 70 - 80% of their full capacity, your cell will last longer. I recharge my phone when it gets down to 1 bar.

Laptop batteries are a little different. Well, the batteries aren't different, but they have a power meter that needs to be calibrated from time to time. To calibrate the meter you need to do a complete discharge. This needs to be done around 4 times a year, depending on how you use your battery pack. Once again you will enjoy longer life if you limit your discharge. The other thing that kills laptop batteries is heat. You need to keep your battery pack cool.

Tom
 
>To get the most cycle life from a NiMh battery pack you need to start with a 16 hour 0.1C charge.

What is .1C ?

> This will form and balance the pack.

Not sure what "form" or "balance" means? Actually, clueless.

> Next you need to try to limit your discharge to around 70% of the packs total capacity.

This mean %30 left or 70% left of life? 70% seems a little ridiculous. (Though considering how power hungry new leds are, 30% seems a waste.)

>discharge down to 1.0 volts per cell followed by a 0.1C 16 hour charge.

Is this dead? I carry a small batter tester at all times, no desire for volt meter-size and breakage.

>If your pack is made up of high quality cells in the 1800 - 2200 mAh range,

What is wrong with 2300 to 2650's?
 
There is a large body of arcane lore that has grown up around NiMH rechargeable cells. You can take it all with a healthy dose of humor.

What is .1C ?
1C means to charge or discharge the cell completely in 1 hour. So if a cell capacity was 2000 mAh, then a 1C charge would be 2000 mA (2 amps), and a 0.1C charge would be 200 mA.

Not sure what "form" or "balance" means? Actually, clueless.
Over time, or in long storage, the chemicals inside the cell can get poorly distributed and cause an apparent loss of capacity. Forming and balancing means to redistribute the chemicals evenly, restoring the cell to optimum performance. Some cells need this treatment more than others.

This mean %30 left or 70% left of life? 70% seems a little ridiculous. (Though considering how power hungry new leds are, 30% seems a waste.)
I'd say this is quite over cautious. What's the worst that can happen if you wear your cells out earlier? You just have to buy new ones. The market may have advanced by then, and they are not hugely expensive to replace once in a year or two.

Is this dead? I carry a small batter tester at all times, no desire for volt meter-size and breakage.
1 V under load is more or less completely dead. Note however that the voltage will bounce back to 1.2 V or so when you remove the load, so a pure voltage measurement is not totally reliable.

What is wrong with 2300 to 2650's?
Firstly the higher capacity cells may be a bit more fragile due to the need to cram more "stuff" inside them. You get thinner membranes, thinner electrodes, less robustness. Also, they may not always live up to the manufacturer's claims for capacity.

Secondly, there is a new breed of low self-discharge cells out now. These are more practical for many every day uses because they hold a charge for two years or more, they can deliver higher currents, and some evidence suggests they are less likely to need that "forming" process mentioned above. These LSD cells are not available in the very high capacities.

But if you are going to use your cells within a few days of charging, then the right brand of high capacity cell will do fine (read the reviews and recommendations, and avoid Energizers like the plague).
 
Last edited:
new someone was gone beat me to this long response, lol.....

What is .1C ?
if your battery is rated at 2AH (2000mAH) then a 1C rate would be about 2 amps, (charging or discharging) and it would take about 1 hour to complete a discharge (charging takes longer as power is lost to heat). So a 0.1C rate for discharge just means that you are discharging or charging at about 200mA, or over the course of about 10 hours. So "C" rate is just defining the rate of charge or discharge in relation to time rather than actual amp rates.

[/quote]Not sure what "form" or "balance" means? Actually, clueless.[/quote]
A nice slow long charge gives all the cells in the pack a chance to come to a state of full charge without too much heating up. This gets all the cells into the same state of charge (full) which is important for cycle life. I don't know how to explain forming, I guess you could say that the cells need a chance to "break in" like when you put a new cam in an engine, a long slow charge accomplishes this pretty well I guess... Lower capacity cells tend to require less of this maintenance, cells like the eneloops require basically no pack forming or maintenance as they tend to come out of the box very well balanced and matched.

This mean %30 left or 70% left of life? 70% seems a little ridiculous. (Though considering how power hungry new leds are, 30% seems a waste.)
Means 30% remaining. Over-discharging cells is one of the the fastest way to ruin a NIMH pack, by limiting yourself to ~70% of the packs capacity you are ensuring that none of the cells are being dragged down to the lower limits.

Is this dead? I carry a small batter tester at all times, no desire for volt meter-size and breakage.
First of it's very difficult to determine a state of charge on NIMH cells with a simple tester, some of the more complicated ones might be able to give an indication, but NIMH varies so much in different sizes, internal resistance, etc, that I can't think of any battery tester that could give you any accurate idea of the state of charge for a randomly chosen NIMH cell. A good quality pack charger will do discharges to ~1.0V per cell. 1.0V per cell is indeed very dead.

What is wrong with 2300 to 2650's?
if you are talking AA cells, the highest capacity cells, while good for maximum capacity, are a major tradeoff that they do not mention on the package (informed consumers are dangerous consumers, so they are simply trying to convince you that bigger numbers are better.

Think of a AA cell as a long length of wire coiled up inside the cell. Now, imagine that the longer you make the wire, the more capacity it has. So to fit a longer wire in the same size package, you have to make the wire thinner. Now think about the effects of making the wire thinner. The cell can't deliver as much current, and the wire is more fragile. Tends to be that the lower capacity cells are the most robust (think thicker wire), they handle high current well, they have the lowest self discharge issues, and they tend to survive the most cycles, and are therefor the best choice for pack building. Maximum capacity cells also tend to be the most unbalanced (having larger variances in capacity from cell to cell).
 
Risking being chastized for cell abuse, I must ask if an Enelope can be quick charged? My ROV Hybrids seem to quick charge.


Thanks for the two followups, very useful.



----
 
new
The high capacity 2650's cell can't deliver as much current, and the wire is more fragile. Tends to be that the lower capacity cells are the most robust (think thicker wire), they handle high current well,


Can you define less current? For me, I might wish 4 AA to drive a 3 watt head lamp. Is this considered high, mid or low, by your definition?
 
Can you define less current? For me, I might wish 4 AA to drive a 3 watt head lamp. Is this considered high, mid or low, by your definition?


I've run 3 watt luxeons off of alkalines before with fine results... They are hardly high current.
 
Can you define less current? For me, I might wish 4 AA to drive a 3 watt head lamp. Is this considered high, mid or low, by your definition?

4AA alkaline pack is 4*1.5V = 6V. 3W draw from that pack will consume 3watts/6V current, or 0.5 amps. That is within reason for alkaline batteries, though much more than that and alkalines begin to lose efficiency and waste their energy. Find the "Battery Shootout" threads to see the effect of different current draws on the performance of various batteries.

4AA NiMH pack is 4*1.2V = 4.8V. 3W draw from that pack will consume 3watts/4.8V current, or 0.625 amps. Though this is slightly higher than the alkaline example, NiMH batteries can deliver much higher current than alkalines, due to their lower internal resistance. 0.625 amps is childs play for even the fussiest NiMH batteries. There are some that can deliver 30 amps! Again, read through the shootout threads.
 
Hello Buck,

To get the most cycle life from a NiMh battery pack you need to start with a 16 hour 0.1C charge. This will form and balance the pack. Next you need to try to limit your discharge to around 70% of the packs total capacity. This should be your "standard" usage. Charge the pack on a charger that allows you to complete the charge in 1 - 2 hours.

Every 15 - 20 cycles you need to do a complete discharge down to 1.0 volts per cell followed by a 0.1C 16 hour charge.

Tom

Any suggestions for a good pack charger? I'm pulling my packs apart currently to charge the individual cells which is a pain. I've found a couple but they are either big huge things or won't run off 12v so they are not portable.
 

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