Nitecore lubrication, is petroleum really bad.

[Tekno_Cowboy]

The theory is that the teflon particles will abrade the aluminum over time, but after using SS 50/50 on bare aluminum threads for many months with good results, I don't see how it would apply for this particular application; it would make sense in a high-speed/-heat machine scenario, but so little movement goes on with flashlight threads that it's not really an issue.

I see. I suppose that makes sense. I have to agree that it's probably not an issue with flashlights though. I've been using it on bare aluminum for over a year now with very good results.

 

[csshih]

No-ox-id sold over at the MP has been very good for me regarding nitecore pistons, too.

 

[Marduke]

To answer the original question, while there is certainly better lubes, there is nothing particularly bad about petroleum jelly. Most all modern o-ring are not natural rubber, and will not react with petroleum based lubes like they did decades ago.

The general idea is to have something on the o-rings and threads, and something is better than nothing.

 

[Rexlion]

Where did you hear that Krytox is not good for bare aluminum?

Every dealer I've talked to says it should be perfect for bare aluminum.

It was a post by Luminscent... I don't see the actual thread that I had read, but here's another one I found just now, see post 11:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2214478

Of course I have no experience in the matter, so I was just going by someone who sounded convincing and knowledgeable to me. Isn't that how most rumors get started?

 

[Rexlion]

The o-ring may simply be too large, or is made of silicone and became swollen from exposure to silicone-based lube. Either way, again, don't fret over o-rings; at the first sign of any issue or hassle, simply replace it.

You make that sound so easy. Ok, I have some uncertainty here.
1. How do I accurately measure the diameter and thickness of the current o-ring? Seems like this has to be a pretty precise measurement, and the best tool I have is a cheap (under $5) plastic caliper. And do I go by I.D. or O.D.?
2. Where do I find a place who will sell me one o-ring the exact same diameter but less thickness, without paying through the nose on shipping?

The RC-C3 works very easily with the o-ring removed, so without a doubt that's my problem. It's just a cheap black o-ring, and not old at all, but it moves very hard until you work it back and forth a couple of times... and the next time I want to use it, same thing, moves hard again.

 

[savumaki]

You make that sound so easy. Ok, I have some uncertainty here.
1. How do I accurately measure the diameter and thickness of the current o-ring? Seems like this has to be a pretty precise measurement, and the best tool I have is a cheap (under $5) plastic caliper. And do I go by I.D. or O.D.?
2. Where do I find a place who will sell me one o-ring the exact same diameter but less thickness, without paying through the nose on shipping?
O-ring sizes are measured by the dia.(or thickness) and the inside dia. of the ring. Find a dealer who sells hydraulic supplies which will include orings and he can help you in a jiffy. He will have a special gauge which measures these dim. (even though your caliper should do the job)
He will also have lube.

The RC-C3 works very easily with the o-ring removed, so without a doubt that's my problem. It's just a cheap black o-ring, and not old at all, but it moves very hard until you work it back and forth a couple of times... and the next time I want to use it, same thing, moves hard again.

 

[JML]

Perhaps CPF should just disable the search function because no one seems to use it.... [sigh]

Possible O-ring degradation aside, petroleum jelly is one of the worst things to use because when it is exposed to high temperatures (and I mean anything higher than body temperature) it will thin out, run, and migrate all over the flashlight. Try leaving a light in a car on a hot day...

The Radio Shack precision applicator is filled with Suber Lube OIL, not Super Lube grease. The grease is a far higher viscosity lubricant. It's an excellent long-lasting food-safe lube that has been out on the market for a long time.

Nyogel comes in several varieties, and plenty has been written about the two main types.

You can also get pure Teflon grease (not the same as Krytox, which has been reported to damage things). It was sold for bicycle lube, and then discontinued, but you can still find it. This is NOT merely Teflon added to a synthetic or petroleum lube.

There are many Teflon/PTFE fortified synthetic lubes. Some are good, some are not...

 

[StarHalo]

It was a post by Luminscent... I don't see the actual thread that I had read, but here's another one I found just now, see post 11

Some of the other posts within that thread are the more informative/relevant bits; always properly clean (I would advise against paper towels/QTips or anything that would leave "bits", I use the flashaholic favorite - makeup sponges), then lube, your light. Longevity of your threads is more important than feel. Etc.

Luminescent was using a raw/unblended Krytox product intended for some specific industrial application. The Sandwich Shoppe's Krytox blend is 50% oil and 50% grease, specifically formulated just for flashlights. JCompton goes as far as offering a free sample, which should tell you how well it works.. (to be fair, Nanolube is supposed to be sending me a free sample of their product also)

1. How do I accurately measure the diameter and thickness of the current o-ring? Seems like this has to be a pretty precise measurement, and the best tool I have is a cheap (under $5) plastic caliper. And do I go by I.D. or O.D.?
2. Where do I find a place who will sell me one o-ring the exact same diameter but less thickness, without paying through the nose on shipping?

Savumaki's advice applies here, your local hydraulic guy will be able to help, but I'd first try asking the retailer you bought the flashlight from and/or manufacturer of the flashlight for replacement o-rings, as those will be the exact fit.

The RC-C3 works very easily with the o-ring removed, so without a doubt that's my problem. It's just a cheap black o-ring, and not old at all, but it moves very hard until you work it back and forth a couple of times... and the next time I want to use it, same thing, moves hard again.

Did you lubricate the o-ring? When you're doing the clean-and-lube ritual, here's what to do with an o-ring:

1) Remove the o-ring from the flashlight entirely
2) Clean it with your fingers using mild soap and rinse it under a faucet
3) Put a small drop of lube on the o-ring and rub it thoroughly over its surface - it should be completely coated inside and out
4) Replace the o-ring and give the junction a few twists

 

[RocketTomato]

I read that Krytox is not good for bare aluminum, and some of my lights have bare threads (ITP mainly); so I also got some of Gary123's lube (No-Ox-Id) which is wax based, and that works fine too.

The theory is that the teflon particles will abrade the aluminum over time, but after using SS 50/50 on bare aluminum threads for many months with good results, I don't see how it would apply for this particular application; it would make sense in a high-speed/-heat machine scenario, but so little movement goes on with flashlight threads that it's not really an issue.

I assure you that it is not possible for Teflon particles to abrade aluminum or its native aluminum oxide coating. Teflon is a very soft polymer material with a very low coefficient of friction. It is extremely unreactive and is absolutely safe to use with most anything. I am not sure what happened with Luminescent but my best guess is that he/she accidentally stripped the threads while trying out the new lube.

You can also get pure Teflon grease (not the same as Krytox, which has been reported to damage things). It was sold for bicycle lube, and then discontinued, but you can still find it. This is NOT merely Teflon added to a synthetic or petroleum lube.

There are many Teflon/PTFE fortified synthetic lubes. Some are good, some are not...

Krytox is pure Teflon grease. It is perfluoropolyether with teflon powder added to thicken it into a grease. Dupont invented Teflon and devloped Krytox.



As far as what oils/greases to use, here is a link to a post I made in an earlier thread.

 

[RocketTomato]

You make that sound so easy. Ok, I have some uncertainty here.
1. How do I accurately measure the diameter and thickness of the current o-ring? Seems like this has to be a pretty precise measurement, and the best tool I have is a cheap (under $5) plastic caliper. And do I go by I.D. or O.D.?
2. Where do I find a place who will sell me one o-ring the exact same diameter but less thickness, without paying through the nose on shipping?

The RC-C3 works very easily with the o-ring removed, so without a doubt that's my problem. It's just a cheap black o-ring, and not old at all, but it moves very hard until you work it back and forth a couple of times... and the next time I want to use it, same thing, moves hard again.

Since Romisen is Chinese made, it is probably a metric sized o-ring. For metric o-rings, you measure the inner diameter and the thickness. It's probably something like 1.5 mm x 22 mm.

 

[StarHalo]

I assure you that it is not possible for Teflon particles to abrade aluminum or its native aluminum oxide coating.

Thank you for clarifying, we're in the process of amassing lube data and sorting through the myths, so every little bit helps.

 

[slipe]

I was asking a Home Depot employee where I could find plumber's silicone grease when another man came up to ask a question. He asked what I needed the grease for and I told him it was for rubber o-rings. I said I had read that petroleum based products degraded them over time.

He had been a plumbing contractor for years and said he always followed the manufacturer's recommendations for lubricants. He said there were different recommendations, but they were all for petroleum based lubricants on rubber o-rings. He said he has had many occasions to disassemble connections he had made years earlier and that there was no deterioration of the rubber o-rings. He said there might be other reasons for using exotic lubricants in flashlights, but that whoever started the rumor that petroleum lubricants deteriorated rubber was just plain wrong. I suspect the manufacturers know what they are talking about just as Nitecore does.

Then again maybe the guy was a BS artist, but he seemed to know what he was talking about.

 

[Neill_Currie]

Firstly: O Rings can easily be purchased that are impervious to petroleum products. Then you could use whatever based lube you like. Just go to a good automotive parts warehouse and ask for their tray of gas-resistant O Rings. Take your light, or the original O Ring with you to match the sizes exactly. Gas resistant O Rings are a little more expensive than the standard fare, but we're only talking about cents or a dollar at most.

Secondly: as an ex-bicycle mechanic, I have lots of grease left over that was specially formulated for use on Suspension Forks. These have O Rings, and wiper seals in them, and I have had no issues using this type of grease on my lights. A decent bicycle shop will stock this grease, one brand name is "Slick Honey".

 

[bansuri]

Perhaps CPF should just disable the search function because no one seems to use it.... [sigh]

Bad idea. I'd love to see the stats on just how many people DO use the search, I'm sure it's more than you think. Don't let the 1% get you down.

 

[DM51]

I was asking a Home Depot employee... a plumbing contractor for years... he always followed the manufacturer's recommendations... they were all for petroleum based lubricants on rubber o-rings

Ask 1,000 people what an O-ring is made of and 999 will tell you rubber. I bet this guy had no idea what the ones he used were actually made of.

 

[StarHalo]

He asked what I needed the grease for and I told him it was for rubber o-rings.

There aren't any modern flashlights that use rubber o-rings. You can make a good deduction on what your o-ring is made of based on its color, but it's not really necessary since all o-ring materials are functionally the same and are compatible with pretty much anything that's labeled as a lubricant (excepting red silicone rings which are not compatible with silicone lube.)

 

[burntoshine]

i didn't want to start a new thread about this, so i'll see if anyone has a simple fix; i bought the EX10 Q5 when they first came out. i also just recently (last month or 2) bought the D10 R2. my EX10's piston has much more 'travel distance' to ON than my D10. did they change that since the release of the piston drive series, or is it different from the EX10 to the D10?

my main question is this, one problem i've always had with my EX10 is the friction. the button has always been a little tough to push. and it seems to have gotten worse recently for some reason (unknown to me). i thought that's how the PD series was, but my D10 R2 is amazing better with significantly less 'travel distance'. the D10 R2 is perfect!

when i take the o-ring out of my EX10 it works great (still don't like the 'travel distance' though). so it's definitely the o-ring. i put in an o-ring from my P1D with also good results, but i still want it to be water proof and the P1D o-ring barely sticks out anymore than the piston OD. i tried using the extra o-ring (my EX10 came with the red o-rings for the piston) that came with the light, but it seems to be worse.

i tried a lot of different lubes (silicone grease, krytox 50/50, nyogel), none improve the friction at all. some make it worse. it seems like my o-ring is a tad too big. can anyone recommend an o-ring with just the right thickness that will solve my problem??...?

i, of course, have cleaned everything before applying new lube.



...thanks either way in advance!

 

[burntoshine]

(excepting red silicone rings which are not compatible with silicone lube.)

woah, just saw this. is using 'gunk silicone grease' ("no petroleum additives") on my Nitecore EX10 red o-rings my problem??

i'd really love for someone to point me to some o-rings that will work nicely on my EX10 Q5

 

[StarHalo]

woah, just saw this. is using 'gunk silicone grease' ("no petroleum additives") on my Nitecore EX10 red o-rings my problem??

Silicone lube will cause silicone o-rings to swell, which in the short term will cause more friction, in worse cases will require strap wrenches to disassemble your light.

It sounds like you've already tried other lubes with your spare o-ring (the one that wasn't silicone lubed), so I'd say you're right to look for a different o-ring. Ask some of the EX10 guys/threads what alternative rings they've used..

 

[burntoshine]

Silicone lube will cause silicone o-rings to swell, which in the short term will cause more friction, in worse cases will require strap wrenches to disassemble your light.

It sounds like you've already tried other lubes with your spare o-ring (the one that wasn't silicone lubed), so I'd say you're right to look for a different o-ring. Ask some of the EX10 guys/threads what alternative rings they've used..

i think that's exactly what has happened to mine. they were both exposed to silicone at a young age, so i think they're gonners.

...will do. thanks! :wave: