NiteCore Lumens Rating

[Bullzeyebill]

For you it is a "qualitative look" comparing light to light. To others reviewing your work, it will only be a subjective look, and their eyes might have had a different take on the comparisons. Also, photo's, no matter how carefully taken, may never show what the eye, or a light measurement tool does. When I compare two flashlights, I first use my eyes, then go to the simple measurement tool, the light meter to finish the appraisal, particularly when apparent brightness/overall output seems to be very similar. Yes, the IS would give the final answer, and that might be the next step after a lightmeter comparison, but like you said, having an IS is expensive, and I will go with the next best easily obtainable tool. Interesting to note that those that have made their own light boxes, or even their own IS's are finding that a simple bounce with a lightmeter will have similiar results, comparison wise.

Bill

 

[mighty82]

Remember that the first 20 minutes on max with a fresh battery is "out of regulation" or "direct drive" on the D10/EX10. While the extreme has a pretty flat regulation from the beginning.

From your pictures comparing the P3D Q5 and the EX10 the P3D Q5 looks significantly brighter to me. Can you pull out a beamshots of the extreme and compare it to the P3D Q5? The P3D was rated about 200 lumens otf by chevrofreak and if the extreme really is 190-200 lumens otf it should appear approximately the same brightness as the P3D Q5. Though it might have a completely different beam. I haven't seen the extreme beam in person yet.

 

[UnknownVT]

For you it is a "qualitative look" comparing light to light. To others reviewing your work, it will only be a subjective look, and their eyes might have had a different take on the comparisons.

No disagreement from me - I could not see much of any difference between the Extreme and the EX10 (and D10, NDI on Li-Ion) so I showed it with pictures.

I do not have an integrating sphere - and different beam characteristics may give different readings with a light meter -
eg: the classic case of a bright light that is not a good thrower - and a not so bright light that throws well.

My subjective look was not meant to measure anything and the photos are there to illustrate what I see.

I do what most flashaholics do when we get a new light - compare it to other lights that are close and ones that we expect it to be brighter or dimmer than. We stay "happy" as long as it is within our expectations (and many of us are pretty fussy) - when they are not that is when we talk about it - that simply is what this is

I found 3 separate lights that were rated 130 lumens seem to be as bright as 3 samples of a light that was rated 190 lumens...
so I started a discussion and tried to show what I saw.

 

[UnknownVT]

Can you pull out a beamshots of the extreme and compare it to the P3D Q5?

Color removed/deSaturated versions -

 

[mighty82]

It's VERY obvious from those pictures that the P3D Q5 is brighter than the NEX. The P3D's hotspot is both wider and brighter and it has brighter spill. I don't believe that the NEX is 190 lumens otf. If it is, the P3D has to be 250. I think the "issue" is that the NEX is overrated rather than the EX10/D10 being underrated. Start comparing the D10/DX10 to the P3D Q5 that we know approximately the output from instead of the extreme, and you will see that they are not "up there" in the 200-ish lumen range.

 

[mighty82]

Double post..

 

[UnknownVT]

Start comparing the D10/DX10 to the P3D Q5 that we know approximately the output from instead of the extreme, and you will see that they are not "up there" in the 200-ish lumen range.

Please see Post #29
I think you were replying to that in your post #37 ?

 

[matrixshaman]

Thanks UnknownVT for starting this message thread. I understand what you are saying and I think it has saved me from getting an NEX or at least disappointment in the output if I get one (still on my want list). I do think Nitecore might be a bit lax in their advertised ratings - and that's okay. They make up for that in other things that are more important to me. It is good they shifted to Out-the-Front lumen ratings a while ago and I think the Extreme may not have been caught in the changeover. I appreciate what you are trying to clarify here despite some that may see it as argumentative. In my book it's all intellectual discussion - no arguments allowed

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Remember that the first 20 minutes on max with a fresh battery is "out of regulation" or "direct drive" on the D10/EX10. While the extreme has a pretty flat regulation from the beginning.

From your pictures comparing the P3D Q5 and the EX10 the P3D Q5 looks significantly brighter to me. Can you pull out a beamshots of the extreme and compare it to the P3D Q5? The P3D was rated about 200 lumens otf by chevrofreak and if the extreme really is 190-200 lumens otf it should appear approximately the same brightness as the P3D Q5. Though it might have a completely different beam. I haven't seen the extreme beam in person yet.

Chevrofreak made a reference to the then new P3D Q5 in this thread, see post 25 https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/165971

He had tested the original P3D in June of 2007 and it showed as estimate of 130 lumens according to his data. Search for Chevrofreak and his threads, using CPF Search.

Bill

Bill

 

[UnknownVT]

Chevrofreak made a reference to the then new P3D Q5 in this thread, see post 25 https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/165971
He had tested the original P3D in June of 2007 and it showed as estimate of 130 lumens according to his data. Search for Chevrofreak and his threads, using CPF Search.

Thanks for the additional information -
the P3D-Q5 for the beamshots was the one I compared to the Fenix T1 (rated 225 lumens) in
Fenix T1 Comparison Review
I thought the sample of one of the P3D-Q5 did pretty well - but then we are talking in the manufacturer's ratings of "only" 10 lumens difference ..... (P3D-Q5 rated 215 lumens)

I think "subjectively" that T1 was pretty typical as it was used in the comparison with the TK10
Fenix TK10 Comparison Review

FWIW - here are the standardized stairway beamshots (color/tint removed by desaturation) -

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I think "subjectively" that T1 was pretty typical as it was used in the comparison with the TK10.
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Ok, I apologize for my righteous comment about your "subjectivity". I do go on and on about CPF'ers needing to use some more measurement tools, and get carried away with it. You have done a good job here.

Bill

 

[UnknownVT]

Ok, I apologize for my righteous comment about your "subjectivity". I do go on and on about CPF'ers needing to use some more measurement tools, and get carried away with it. You have done a good job here.

Bill

Bill - that really isn't a problem - you were correct it is subjective - obviously any comments from me has to be by definition subjective and matter of opinion.

I try to present my photos so others can see for themselves -
and sometimes there just isn't agreement.

Really it's all good, as long as we keep the discussion honest and civil,
and just as a re-assurance I appreciated your comments - it was honest and puts things into context.
Mine was only a look-see comparison with what I think are reproducible comparison photos, and not measurements.
It obviously has its limitations in terms of absolutes - but there isn't any other way I know of - of being able to describe and illustrate what I saw - "subjectively" of course

 

[UnknownVT]

A HUGE difference!!!

.... before someone jumps down my throat for saying that
- please read on....

Because the sample of one of the NiteCore EX10 (rated 130 lumens) seem to be as bright if not brighter than 3 close samples of the NiteCore Extreme (rated 190 lumens on primary CR123) - this seems to run contrary to other reviews and reports/measurements
- I got hold of another sample of the EX10 through the very kind courtesy of 4sevens -
who actually went out of of his way to get it to me - despite his very busy and tight time schedule (thank you David).

Dare I say it again - I saw a "huge" difference (Ok, ok, I'm pushing it )

not saying anything quantitative - but qualitatively (and even subjectively ) the first sample of the EX10 (#1) is noticably brighter than this second sample of the EX10 (#2)

Here are the standardized stairway beamshots with color/tint removed by desaturation -

well may be not "huge" (aaww, come on, I am only joking )
but certainly very noticable that this second sample of the EX10 (#2) is not as bright as the first sample of the EX10 that I was using a lot in this thread.

So does this solve the problem why the 130 lumens NiteCore seem as bright as the 190 lumens NiteCore Extreme?

Well yes and no.....

yes, for the EX10.....

BUT still no for the D10 and NDI both on Li-Ion 14500 - which are close enough in visual brightness to the Extreme - that I still question those ratings
- just to be clear -

 

[Nake]

How much you want for that bright one?

 

[UnknownVT]

How much you want for that bright one?

please read this review first -

NiteCore EX10 Comparison Review