NTC SOFT START 5761 IN 2CM@G AKA M@G61

[jimjones3630]

A critical review of a wonder mod by Northern Lights.

Small form 2cM@g with Phillis 5761, two AW's Li powered C cells, output more than 1185.

Problematic instantflashing well known with various approaches to fix.

Now NTC low cost, high tech soft starting!!!

Wonderfully reliable, fully off when off, fully on (within specs. of individual NTC-read as some voltage reduction) when on.

What a joy to use, easy carry-SF M3 now retired.

Thanks NL for a great mod in an easily obtainable bulb.

Beam shots to be posted.

 

[Aircraft800]

I was thinking of building one like this also. Where did you mount the NTC? Is it right behind the Kiu socket? That's where I was going to mount it. It just goes is series with the "+" wire right?

This may be the easiest, and cheapest M@g61 or M@g11 mod out there. Can you just cut down the stock tailcap and shorten the spring, or do you need a FM Stainless cap? Let's see, Kiu socket, Litho camless reflector, 2 AW "C"s, borofloat lens, NTC, and a little time soldering, sounds less than $100. WOW!

Good Idea!

 

[jimjones3630]

Aircraft will point you to this thread by the builder Northern Lights which hope gets you started.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=170972

See below links for historical developement.

A full description by the builder follows.

Here is what it is, a modified Pewter 2C-cell Maglite. It sports a Borofloat high temperature glass window, long throwing Smooth Litho123 reflector fitted to the bulb, Phillips 5761 frosted bulb for a smooth beam. The socket is a KIU switch/socket for a low resistance high temperature union of bulb and circuit. It allows off/on and momentary off/on operation. Powered by two AW lithium 3.6V, 3000 mAh 26540 (long C) rechargeable cells. Run time calculates 32 minutes based on the hotrater calculations specification the bulb runs at 5.5 amps. No need for spacers on this battery tube, the tail cap connection is modified to a Northern Lights design that also contains the soft start electronics. Yes! Single click operation, you do not have to click the light twice to start it and you are spared the very expensive electronic light drivers by having NTC soft start surge protection built into this light. Additionally the hot components, the bell and socket are surrounded by ceramic blanket insulation material.

You could run the WA1111 bulb in this light too, but I would recommend removing the NTC from that circuit, but why would you do that, the WA1111 is only 531 torch lumens?

Here are the parts:
MagLite 2C-cell flashlight
Borofloat window
Smooth Litho123 reflector opened to accept 5761 bulbs.
Kiu socket/Switch combination for the bulb
AW Lithium C cells, 3.6 V, 3000mAh, 26x54 mm Batteries
Frosted Phillips 5761 bi-pin halogen bulb, rated 765 lumens overdriven to 1331 lumens.
Tail cap spring replacement connection
NTC controlled surge protection soft start, Amertherm SL12 1R010 NTC
Ceramic blanket insulation in the bell and socket area

Have you been following the threads? Yes, ROP and WA1185 modified lights have traditionally been entry level hot wire lights, with the discovery of the potential of the Phillips 5761 bulb brighter modified lights and longer run times over the ROP and WA1185 are now a reality. The M85, WA1185 has a following because it was there first but I just had to bring it up again, it is not the worlds brightest anymore. Actual light output from a flash light , referred to as torch-lumens is likely in common modded lights to be:
5761 7.2Vbat.~854 torch lumens (1331 bulb lumens)1185 10.8Vbat.~772torch lumens (1194 bulb lumens)

Reference:
5761 History And Modified Lights

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=127925fs BobG does beam shots against 1185
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=145224 Old history and the challenge to develop the model
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=113100&page=2 From post #100 onward the 1185 comparison and extensive 5761 discussion to include this model
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=170972 NTC applications and sources
MY WORK, MY MODS:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=170280
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=158647 an attaboy in post #13
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=162767 Tail cap modifications
SOURCES OF PARTS:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=157613 AW batteries
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=148443 Litho Reflectors
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=132235&highlight=kiu+socket KIU switches
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=170972 NTC application links to sources
www.bulbconnection.com source Phillips 5761
www.flashlightlens.com source for windows

I was thinking of building one like this also. Where did you mount the NTC? Is it right behind the Kiu socket? That's where I was going to mount it. It just goes is series with the "+" wire right?

This may be the easiest, and cheapest M@g61 or M@g11 mod out there. Can you just cut down the stock tailcap and shorten the spring, or do you need a FM Stainless cap? Let's see, Kiu socket, Litho camless reflector, 2 AW "C"s, borofloat lens, NTC, and a little time soldering, sounds less than $100. WOW!

Good Idea!

 

[Aircraft800]

Sorry,

I'm a retard. I didn't realize there was already so much development on the 5761, and most of it included you and Lux. Thanks for all of the great links. I only first started noticing 5761 when AW started talking about his soft start "C" switch, but since the fix is not done yet, I started looking for other sources such as the NTC.

 

[jimjones3630]

Aircraft no not me. Most of the developement was and is unfolding from the crafty hands and original ideas of others. Glad you found the links helpful.

Sorry,

I'm a retard. I didn't realize there was already so much development on the 5761, and most of it included you and Lux. Thanks for all of the great links. I only first started noticing 5761 when AW started talking about his soft start "C" switch, but since the fix is not done yet, I started looking for other sources such as the NTC.

 

[Northern Lights]

Sorry,

I'm a retard. I didn't realize there was already so much development on the 5761, and most of it included you and Lux. Thanks for all of the great links. I only first started noticing 5761 when AW started talking about his soft start "C" switch, but since the fix is not done yet, I started looking for other sources such as the NTC.

I am grateful for JJ publishing all the links, I had written that piece as my B/S/T entry but before I could posted it, JJ scooped up the light! I think the first reference to the bulb was April 2006. I think the first pioneer to really look at developing it is BobG. He helped me a lot too. I had a conversation back then with AWR and he mentioned the 5761 in a "Oh, by the way..." statement and I realized it was 900 lumens at that voltage and only about 7.2 volts which wallopped the wa1185 and allowed for more Ah to run it too.
My first 2C 5761 ran on a new breed of 18650s that were the first to run with 2600 mAh and therefore the first that could handle the 5.5 amps of the 5761. Some people did not think that could be done but as it turned out those batteries were not over rated and they were unprotected therefore you could bend the 2c (2 capacity) rule and be safe and get good output. Here it is, good review too:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=158647
Until then the ROP 2C-cell lithium at about 500 torch lumens was the winner of the small light catagory.
About that time AW, my hero, announced plans for the lithium 26650 battery and that gave birth to the 2c cell 5761 craze that I had already visited. AW batteries most of the time will not allow the 5761 run unless you double or multi-click on to heat the filament or use soft start like drivers or this NTC solution.
(btw, AW and AWR are two different folks)
Thank you, Jim Jones for the compliments.

 

[Northern Lights]

I was thinking of building one like this also. Where did you mount the NTC? Is it right behind the Kiu socket? That's where I was going to mount it. It just goes is series with the "+" wire right?

This may be the easiest, and cheapest M@g61 or M@g11 mod out there. Can you just cut down the stock tailcap and shorten the spring, or do you need a FM Stainless cap? Let's see, Kiu socket, Litho camless reflector, 2 AW "C"s, borofloat lens, NTC, and a little time soldering, sounds less than $100. WOW!

Good Idea!

Mount the NTC in the tail cap. Isolate it from the heat of the head as temperature state is critical to the resitance state. Use my tail cap modification:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=162767
follow the two links.
In this tail cap connecting device divide the circuit to upper and lower and put the NTC on the outside between the battery and ground. Cover the NTC and tubing with shrink wrap. You can keep a spare bulb in the center.
From post #133 on discusses some more about NTCs:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2119573#post2119573
so does this link:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=170972

 

[jimjones3630]

Thank you NL for this great mod and continuing to do the R&D on the 5761. One of my first M@g61's was copied on yours using unprotected 18650 2600 Mah. Eventually I over moded it and a 6 cell NiMH subC version and instantflashed myself out of both.

My first 2C 5761 ran on a new breed of 18650s that were the first to run with 2600 mAh and therefore the first that could handle the 5.5 amps of the 5761. Some people did not think that could be done but as it turned out those batteries were not over rated and they were unprotected therefore you could bend the 2c (2 capacity) rule and be safe and get good output. Here it is, good review too:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=158647
Until then the ROP 2C-cell lithium at about 500 torch lumens was the winner of the small light catagory.
.

 

[Aircraft800]

Thanks Northern Lights and JJ for all of the great info!

I'm planning my own build, but I may hold off for the Incan Smart Driver V2 by AW, just not sure I can fork over that kind of money yet. It seems like great sleeper in a nice compact Mag 2C host, and using the NTC would be a cheap, effective alternative. I see the 18650's on E-bay for $3.99, but haven't seen the 26650's yet.

Thanks for all of the great info.

 

[jimjones3630]

Aircraft 26650Mah is the capacity of the unprotected 18650's. I got mine here and pleased.

http://www.batteryjunction.com/li18cyce326h.html

Thanks Northern Lights and JJ for all of the great info!

I'm planning my own build, but I may hold off for the Incan Smart Driver V2 by AW, just not sure I can fork over that kind of money yet. It seems like great sleeper in a nice compact Mag 2C host, and using the NTC would be a cheap, effective alternative. I see the 18650's on E-bay for $3.99, but haven't seen the 26650's yet.

Thanks for all of the great info.

 

[Northern Lights]

Thanks Northern Lights and JJ for all of the great info!

I'm planning my own build, but I may hold off for the Incan Smart Driver V2 by AW, just not sure I can fork over that kind of money yet. It seems like great sleeper in a nice compact Mag 2C host, and using the NTC would be a cheap, effective alternative. I see the 18650's on E-bay for $3.99, but haven't seen the 26650's yet.

Thanks for all of the great info.

Here is the source of the original 2600 mAh 18650s that went into the first 2CM61 LE, lithium 2c-maglite modified to the 5761
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2763