Old Kel-lite D-5

[R.W.D.]

I'm back again with odd questions this time about a light I've always wanted but never got until today. A little back story, the light was originally my grandfather's who was a JSO officer jacksonville sheriff's department- and was his duty light at some point for a period of time that I couldn't guess. It went on to be my father's light who was a navy underwater welder and correctional officer that retired.

My father just recently died and I had no idea until today that this light existed in their possession. I never met my grandfather and I didn't know my father but for the past few years and I didn't know he was my father until two months ago when he died. I know some of that might sound strange or hard to understand but I was under the impression that some @##h9le I couldn't ever put up with was my father so I just lived as if I didn't have one.

I don't like trying to post pictures on here because I always forget passwords to various sites we post photos through to make them appear here.. What I know is, the tail cap is not wanting to come off due to corrosion, the base of the reflector that keeps the bulb in doesn't want to come off for unknown reasons, the bulb filament appears to be perfectly fine yet I cannot get it to light, and the reflectors chrome is deteriorating which I initially planned to just re-chrome.

I've never heald a kel-lite until today and I've also never seen one with a black switch without a shroud? Or accidental switch on protection? 🤔 Those I've seen have a different switch with a fin or standoff on both sides that look to be a prevention of the light accidentally being turned on. Mine doesn't have that, it has a different looking black switch single screw in the center which is held by a nut to the negative connection contact that slides forward to make contact with the reflector to complete the circuit.

I tried contacting an email I found which would have been kel-lite if it actually went through but it came back saying it didn't or at least no longer exists for whatever reason.
I've never wanted to get a flashlight working so badly as I do this one and I need any help I can get. I've done the usual searches on CPF and Google but I've gotten nowhere. This is basically all I've ever gotten from my father and it being his father's just makes it mean more to me. I had never heard of kel-lite until I started researching my "ASP Triad" that I got from an old friend that also recently died, and learned about the man that designed it.

I really need some kind of help getting this light back to being an incandescent that works. I have tools, chemicals of all kinds, engineering background, and a lot of will power to make it work I just don't want to try anything without someone else giving me advice on what I should do or how to approach it. If the tail cap never comes off but has continuity then I'd be OK with dropping the Ds in from the head end.

There aren't as many people interested in incandescent lights even on here anymore so anyone who reads this that has any kind of idea on who could help me out please mention something here.

 

[hsa]

If you PM cpf menber liftdt4r he can probably help. He frequents the Rare Maglite forum in collectables.

 

[novice]

R.W.D.,
I don't know a lot about Kel-lites, but I have a 4-C cell Kel-lite that I bought new in 1976, prior to a trip to Europe. I think that CPF member bykfixer might know a fair amount about them. My Kel-lite has the same sort of "sliding barrel switch" (not the best for keeping water out) without fins. The designer of the Kel-lite, Donald Keller, was, I think, a reserve LA county sheriff's deputy, and was tired of the non-robust flashlights of the time, and wanted to design a light that could double as an improvised baton, since an LEO approaching a car he/she has just pulled over, only has 2 hands, one of which might be unexpectedly needed for a quick weapon presentation. Donald Keller was later hired by Tony Maglica, when his company was starting to design the M@glite. If any of this info is incorrect, I apologize, and it would be most beneficial if bykfixer weighed in. I'm very happy for you that you have this item of your late father's.

 

[bykfixer]

If I had to sum up Kel-Lite in 500 words or less I'd plaguerize what you said Novice. Spot on!!

The 5D was likely made between 1969 and 1973/4. The described switch is from the so-called first generation. The second generation was the one with sides.

Don Keller incorparated the most durable parts available back then and housed them in a sprinkler pipe body. Yup, early stuff was fashioned from alluminum sprinkler pipe.

Now to the issue at hand, getting the tailcap off. That's a toughy due to the alkaline getting into threads and expanding before hardening like cement. Are the batteries still inside?
I have had some success with penetrating lubricants like WD40. Kroil is probably the best. Give the tail end an overnight bath in Kroil, WD40 or what ever you have. Give it a few good whacks with a rubber mallet to try to break up the cementation of the alkaline. Then using rubber grippers or perhaps those super sticky nitrile gloves try giving it a twist. If worse comes to worse well padded vice on the tailcap with well padded vice grips to the body. I recently put the GI Joe kung fu grip to aa light and the tail cap came off but……the tailcap threads stayed inside the light. Dratz.

Now here is a link to spare parts.
https://kellite.com/shop/

You fill out the repair request or go to contact and that means you send Don Keller an email. He will gladly help you source any parts you may need to get it fixed up like new again.

Some Maglite/Kel-Lite lore: in early Kel-Lite days Don had orders coming in faster than he could make parts. Tony Maglica was making brass casings for the US. Being a great machinist, Don hired him to make some of the tailcaps. After Don left Kel-Lite he built lights for leather holster master John Bianchi. They were called B-Lights. They are actually improved versions of the 1st gen Kel Lites.

When Tony was first getting started with Maglite Don and Tony together perfected the krypton bulb.

Don went on to start a company called Sigma-Lites. That did not last long but in its time some really nice lights were made including a 2aa minimag style number with a clicky tailcap. He also headed a flashlight division at Brinkmann for a while creating what was called "the Legend" series and "nextar" bulbs.

Later in about 2000 Don went back to work briefly for Tony. Apparently that did not last long.

A link to member Liftd4R blog
http://otherflashlights.blogspot.com/?m=1

A link about an entire industry started by Don Keller
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...e-vintage-California-cop-light-company-thread

And a great reference material thread
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?272627-The-ABTOMAT-Police-Flashlight-Collection

 

[R.W.D.]

Freakin awesome with the help and ideas, I had no idea I could still gets parts(if the parts I need still exist) after I was given my ASP triad incandescent that Don Keller designed and or helped make, It became my absolute favorite light of any I could get period. The triad has a extremely similar O-ring that goes around the reflector just like my Kel-lite. My triad has a rear momentary switch and the most silent colicky I've ever heard on the side because it was designed to also attach to an ASP baton.

I figured if I can't remove the tail cap withen reason I'm willing to put a rivet through the barrel and cap to ensure continuity and just drop in batteries from the head end.

I'll try gently heating it, then penetrant, and it not probably a rivet.

I will shoot him an email to figure out availability on parts 😎👍


*edit* I forgot to mention that there are no cells in the light and honestly I can't even tell if cells were left in it 🤔 there isn't any visible sign so far other than the tail cap not coming off.. There might be hope, maybe it's stuck from only moisture intrusion since it has been sitting around for who knows how long and it not being waterproof.

 

[bykfixer]

If there's no alakline leak it should not be hard to remove.

Lights of that era were real game changers.

If you use heat, use like an oven or something, not fire. That can cause the coating to blister.

Best of luck :thumbsup:

My favorte Kel-Lite is a 2C using a 3/4" gas service pipe for spacer, a pair of LifePo4 18500 solar light batteries and a 4 cell Maglite bulb. At least as bright as much bigger lights in a light not a lot bigger than a SureFire 9P.

 

[R.W.D.]

I'd love to get a small kel-lite for a reasonable price I think they are awesome.

I fell in love with the asp triad that Don deigned and it has noticeable similarities to the kel-lite like the o-ring around the reflector the same way as the Triad. I'll definitely shoot him an email and I hope he has ideas on how to help me get mine working.

Don is basically a historical figure as far as I'm concerned, he entirely changed the flashlight world and cop gear which is extremely awesome.









*Edit* turns out it is 100% a continuity problem between the tail cap and the body I bridged the two with my multitool on two scratches pre-existing with the switch forward/on and I got the bulb to light. I also learned that when holding the body and touching my multitool to the tail cap, I could actually feel the current in my left wrist which surprised me, didn't know I could feel five D cells through my skin. There was too much resistance through my skin to actually make it light but metal to metal definitely does.

I still can't manage to get the tail cap off so if it comes to it I will absolutely put a small rivet through the body into the tail cap to complete the circuit and I'll just have to load batteries through the front end. I will definitely need a new reflector and the piece that holds the bulb to the reflector because the one I have just free spins the threaded part of the reflector at the crimp in the base of the reflector that keeps everything attached. At least I've gotten somewhere 🤔

 

[lumen aeternum]

My favorte Kel-Lite is a 2C using a 3/4" gas service pipe for spacer, a pair of LifePo4 18500 solar light batteries and a 4 cell Maglite bulb. At least as bright as much bigger lights in a light not a lot bigger than a SureFire 9P.

Is that spacer for length, or are C cells fatter than 18500?
If a spacer, doesn't that sort of iron conduct less efficiently than other metals?
If for length, must make a nice heavy baton.

 

[bykfixer]

The spacer is a gap filler to keep the batteries from wobbling since C cells are roughly 26mm wide while an 18500 is pretty close to the same length as a C cell.
The tubing I reccomended is actually a schedule 80 wall PVC pipe but "gas service" specific pipe can be had a hardware stores like home depot in 3 foot lengths for about a dollar versus buying a 15-20 foot section of pipe. The pipe is black or a really really really dark gray. It looks black to me. I also bought my 18500 batteries in 4 packs at Home Depot. About $10 if I recall correct.

First time I built an 18500 light I liked it so much I used the rest of the pipe in other 2c flashlights. My first was a Maglite ML25 IT (the incan ML25) with a 4 cell bipin bulb, then I did a 3C ML25 IT with 2-18650's and a Streamlight TL3 bulb. Then a classic Maglite 2C using a bipin adapter and 4 cell bulb. When my first Kel-Lite 2C arrived I built that using a Maglite PR based xenon bulb. Good gosh that one is sweet. Then I built a vintage light from the 1950's using a 5 cell argon bulb. Since those bulbs are not as tough as krypton and xenon the over driving the 4 cell bulb poofed them in a few minutes. I did all of those with one 3 foot section of PVC pipe.

So basically if you have a 2C incan flashlight laying around and some extra dough you can get it to mimic a 5 cell flashlight in output.

Oh, and I did a 3c Kel-Lite with a 5 cell Maglite PR based xenon but the 2c with 4 cell bulb is brighter.
The batteries for a 3c are low output (1amp) 18650's.

Meanwhile back at the ranch. If you can find a 5 cell Kel-Lite go for it. My biggest is a 5D made after Streamlight bought Kel-Lite. That one is a super light as well. Push button switch.

One cool thing about Kel-Lites was the lego head. First gen had a large and a small head option. The second gen had a medium option, which pretty much became the standard sized head for flashlights when Maglite used them.

 

[bykfixer]

Here are a couple of ways to ID which generation Kel-Lite you have. Probably. I say probably because Don Keller invented a light that could lego.

The 3 sized heads.
Small and large were in the first gen and a medium was available in second gen. Third gen used only medium sized heads.

The first gen had a slder switch with no rails.
Second gen had a slider that could morse code and it had rails. It had either black, or red or white button.

The third gen had a push button side switch.

Third gen said "Streamlight" on the tailcap.

Many were made in the Kel-Lite factory and had "K" in the serial numbers.

The Bianchi B-Lite could be had with a medium head or a large but no small.

Shown is a 2D with medium head.
The medium Kel-Lite head became the standard in C and D cell police lights.

 

[lumen aeternum]

The spacer is a gap filler to keep the batteries from wobbling since C cells are roughly 26mm wide while an 18500 is pretty close to the same length as a C cell.
The tubing I reccomended is actually a schedule 80 wall PVC pipe but "gas service" specific pipe can be had a hardware stores like home depot in 3 foot lengths for about a dollar versus buying a 15-20 foot section of pipe.

What diameter pipe? Some pipe types are defined as OD others as ID.

 

[bykfixer]

3/4" ID. The wall thickness is a bit less than schedule 40, which is too big to fit in a C sized light.

I took a C battery and 18mm into a home depot and compared to various PVC pipes to get the idea of the one an 18mm fits into and the one about the same OD as a C battery. The "gas service" labled pipe was the best choice. It's a bit more narrow than a C cell so if that's an issue for folks they can wrap some electrical tape.

 

[swampgator]

I'd love to get a small kel-lite for a reasonable price I think they are awesome.

Don sold me a medium head 2C a few years back.
Price was spot in for what it was and who I was buying it from.
Goal was to use a TAD bi pin adapter and run a 5761 on 2 18500s. Sadly the bulb adapter doesn't fit the old light.
So I'm a 7.2V KPR in it instead.

Contact Don. He's very responsive.

 

[bykfixer]

Man that's sweet, a medium head 2C. Never seen one of those.

 

[swampgator]

Man that's sweet, a medium head 2C. Never seen one of those.

I'll post a pic of it tomorrow for you.

 

[snakebite]

if you can get the cells out the top you are ahead of the game.
you can shoot some pb blaster or other penetrating oil in through the top.
this gives a better chance of soaking the threads as there is no o ring to hold it back from the inside.

*Edit* turns out it is 100% a continuity problem between the tail cap and the body I bridged the two with my multitool on two scratches pre-existing with the switch forward/on and I got the bulb to light. I also learned that when holding the body and touching my multitool to the tail cap, I could actually feel the current in my left wrist which surprised me, didn't know I could feel five D cells through my skin. There was too much resistance through my skin to actually make it light but metal to metal definitely does.

I still can't manage to get the tail cap off so if it comes to it I will absolutely put a small rivet through the body into the tail cap to complete the circuit and I'll just have to load batteries through the front end. I will definitely need a new reflector and the piece that holds the bulb to the reflector because the one I have just free spins the threaded part of the reflector at the crimp in the base of the reflector that keeps everything attached. At least I've gotten somewhere 🤔