Olight Ti Infinitum CR123 vs. AW RCR123 vs. AW IMR

[gsegelk]

After learning that the Infinitum drives the LED at 1.3A with a primary CR123 and around 0.7A with an RCR123 3.6V I decided to compare beamshots with the following new/freshly charged batteries: Energizer CR123, AW Black Label RCR123, AW IMR RCR123 (16340).

I would think there would be a noticeable difference at least between the CR123 and the AW Black Label but the output looks no different. I took a couple shots at different exposure's to compare...am I doing something wrong or does 1.3A vs. 0.7A not really make much of a difference?? As a disclaimer, this is only my 2nd time posting beamshots...I didn't do to well the first time around !

One thing to note is that these shots are only meant for comparing the different battery types...the beamshots do not represent what my eyes are seeing! I took 3 sets of shots with the following timing: 1/20, 1/60, 1/160. The following settings did not change: f5.6, ISO100, WB=Daylight. Also, the LED is not perfectly centered which shows in these pics.

First, the light (compared to the Dereelight C2H and Nitecore EX10):



Camera settings for the next 3 shots: f5.6 1/20

Energizer CR123:

AW Black Label RCR123:

AW IMR 16340:

Camera settings for the next 3 shots: f5.6 1/60

Energizer CR123:

AW Black Label RCR123:

AW IMR 16340:

Camera settings for the next 3 shots: f5.6 1/160

Energizer CR123:

AW Black Label RCR123:

AW IMR 16340:

So what gives??

 

[OCDGearhead]

Thanks for posting.

I don't have mine yet, but I will be able to do a side by side comparison when the package arrives between the Energizer & Panasonic primaries and the Ultrafire & Trustfire protected 880mah RCR123's.

It won't be until next week, but I'll post them in here if I can figure out how to do it.

Feel free to pm me on how:thinking:, I'm sure it's easy, but I have not tried it yet.

How do you like the feel & fit & finish of the light?

 

[StarHalo]

Most flashlights that accept both primaries and RCRs get a modest output boost (~5-10%) from the RCRs, but keep in mind that a light must be at least 20% brighter for you to notice a difference by the eye. Plus some lights have very good regulation that makes output on any/all battery types exactly the same.

 

[StandardBattery]

Other than the fact that they all produce a beam (meaning the light can accept the higher RCR voltage), I don't think a beam comparison between the cells is all that interesting, unless for some reason they were different.

Now a Run-Time test, that's a different story. The new IMR cells in some lights may produce a different runtime graph, staying in regulation longer, no misfire on high current incan or Led, etc. However on a 1.3A draw you're going to be hard pressed to see a difference (other than shorter overall runtime for the IMR) if all the cells are healthy.

 

[gsegelk]

Other than the fact that they all produce a beam (meaning the light can accept the higher RCR voltage), I don't think a beam comparison between the cells is all that interesting, unless for some reason they were different.

Now a Run-Time test, that's a different story. The new IMR cells in some lights may produce a different runtime graph, staying in regulation longer, no misfire on high current incan or Led, etc. However on a 1.3A draw you're going to be hard pressed to see a difference (other than shorter overall runtime for the IMR) if all the cells are healthy.

I thought there would be a direct relationship between brightness and the amp draw but I guess I had the wrong idea. It sounds like even if the amp draw is different (1.3A vs. 0.7A) the driver is handling it (somehow) to make the output to the LED the same.

 

[Stereodude]

How does the driver know what battery is installed in the light?

 

[KiwiMark]

Can someone double check the amp draw?

3.0V x 1.3A = 3.9W
3.6V x 0.7A = 2.52W

Those beamshots don't suggest that one is powered by 3.9 watts of battery power and another is running from 2.5 watts. Unless maybe the driver is much more efficient running from 3.6V than it is with 3.0V?

 

[KiwiMark]

How does the driver know what battery is installed in the light?

A Thermos flask can keep hot food hot and cold food cold - how does it know?

 

[Stereodude]

A Thermos flask can keep hot food hot and cold food cold - how does it know?

Thanks for throwing out a completely unrelated comparison. I noticed you didn't actually answer the question though.

 

[StandardBattery]

You've probably heard that most good LED lights are Regulated, as opposed to Direct Drive, or they are Regulated for part of the battery life and then enter direct drive.

In most cases, what that means is the LED is driven with a specific current to produce a specific brightness, and the electronic circuit is able to maintain this drive over some input voltage range of the battery. That is why many lights can take many different types of batteries, and more or less produce the same brightness. Now differences in circuits and different drives depending on if the circuit is in Boost or Buck mode, or if the driver is single mode and uses Direct-Drive at the beginning when the cell is above Vf, etc.

This is why when the battery starts to rundown the light does not dim right away but only dims when the circuit is not able to draw enough POWER from the cell to drive the led at the right level. So as the cell drops in voltage the circuit would draw more current to make up the power difference. That is also why some LED light just shut off when the battery is too low.. no dimming at all... just done!

You can visit the Electronics/Modding forum here to learn a lot more details and about all the stuff I didn't say to keep it kind of simple.

There are two ideas behind the IMR cells. First is a safe Chemistry; you main have heard Lithium cells can be dangerous... well IMR is a lot less Dangerous. The second is some of the new lights and Incandescent lights require a lot of current... you know like a 40A car batter vs. a 200A one. Well not all batteries are up to the task. The IMR cells are star performs in this category, they can handle a draw of 4-5A without their output voltage immediately collapseing, and more importantly without damaging the cell and severely impacting its lifespan.

Sorry for any mistakes I don't generally talk about electronics, on this forum. It was a past live and I'm a little rusty.

 

[jirik_cz]

Can someone double check the amp draw?

3.0V x 1.3A = 3.9W
3.6V x 0.7A = 2.52W

CR123 voltage under load will be lower, around 2.5-2.7V -> 3.25-3.5W
Fresh RCR123 cell has 4.2V without load. With load it will have around 3.9V -> 2.7W.

Unless maybe the driver is much more efficient running from 3.6V than it is with 3.0V?

Yes, that is probable.

 

[gsegelk]

...

You can visit the Electronics/Modding forum here to learn a lot more details and about all the stuff I didn't say to keep it kind of simple.

...

I would eventually like to learn more about how all this works but it would take more time that I can spend right now. That level of detail was just right thanks!

The explanation about the driver efficiency accounting for the difference in the CR123's 3.25-3.5W and the RCR123's 2.7W is still confusing but I'll try to figure it out when I have more time to research.

 

[KiwiMark]

Thanks for throwing out a completely unrelated comparison. I noticed you didn't actually answer the question though.

The clue is that the answer is the same - the same way that a Thermos knows whether its contents are hot or cold is how a driver knows what sort of batteries are powering it.

It is either:
a. magic
or
b. it doesn't actually know, or need to know for that matter.

 

[Axion]

The clue is that the answer is the same - the same way that a Thermos knows whether its contents are hot or cold is how a driver knows what sort of batteries are powering it.

It is either:
a. magic
or
b. it doesn't actually know, or need to know for that matter.

Why all the smart aleck responces?

A thermos is not like a driver because it's a passive device. A thermos is just an container that does not transfer heat well and as a result keeps the contents at whatever temperature they are at.

A driver on the other hand is an active device. It actively increases or decreses the output voltage by a varying margin to produce an approximatly constant power input.

 

[Stereodude]

b. it doesn't actually know

I'd tend to agree with this. Which is why the drastically different current numbers make no sense.

 

[KiwiMark]

I'd tend to agree with this. Which is why the drastically different current numbers make no sense.

Well - it doesn't know the type of battery, but the input voltage and the resistance in the circuit DO change with different types of cells used. It is possible that the buck/boost/direct drive varies with voltage and the driver could be more efficient with more than say 3.2V (or 3.47V or whatever).