P7 D-bin?

[coolwaters]

when is the newer bins coming out?
should i just get the C-bin for now?

 

[tebore]

Probably around when the V or W bin P4s come out.

The C-bins are using the top bin U bin dies it looks like. The B bins look like T or low U bins.

 

[davidt]

Does anybody have an estimate of what the out put of a D-bin would be.
If the B-bin was rated 500-700 lumens, the C-bin 700-900 lumens, would a D-bin be rated at 900-1100 lumens?

 

[LEDninja]

davidt where did you get your numbers (and when)?
The current bins:

 

[KrisP]

Those ratings were changed several months ago...

Go here: http://www.acriche.com/en/product/prd/zpowerLEDp7.asp
Then open the "P7 Series Binning & Labeling" PDF and look on page 5.

[edit] Beaten by seconds!

 

[phantom23]

davidt where did you get your numbers (and when)?
The current bins:

These are not current bins!!! Current specs - yes but only as a document! I f you want to buy P7 you'll see that C bin from newer batches is still rated at 740-900lm which is close to D and more than C from the specs above.

 

[davidt]

davidt where did you get your numbers (and when)?

These are just numbers I saw around this forum and others. I never really took time to look at the official documentations.

 

[LEDninja]

1)
How do you know if the seller is just doing a copy and paste from his last sale and did not notice SSC has changed the specs. The last time you gave me a link to 740-900lm C bin the text is like "740-900lm C bin, for details see link". I followed the 2nd link and the document is the same one I posted above.
2)
How do you know SSC have not started shipping the 'new C bin'. Are you working at SSC shipping department? If you buy a P7 today how do you know it is old C bin or new C bin. A C bin today can be 'new C bin' straight from the factory or an 'old C bin' that has been sitting in a distributor's warehouse for a couple of months.
3)
740-900 lm is also only a document. There is no guarantee you will get a 900 lm. The guarantee is for 740 lm.
With the new C bin the guarantee has dropped by a whopping 40 lm to 700 lm or less than 6%. Big deal.

These are not current bins!!! Current specs - yes but only as a document! I f you want to buy P7 you'll see that C bin from newer batches is still rated at 740-900lm which is close to D and more than C from the specs above.

Don't worry about it. SSC has changed the spec multiple times which caused a lot of confusion and arguments.
First it was P7, 670 lumens in the introduction announcement.
Then it was 570-740 for a B bin, 740-900 for a C bin.
Then it was -960 lumens for a C bin.
Then the document in my post above: 700-800 for a C bin.
The problem is we do not know which version of the spec apply to any particular LED.

These are just numbers I saw around this forum and others. I never really took time to look at the official documentations.

 

[tebore]

LedNinja you're pretty much spot on. I really wish SSC would do a better job with the binning. They should further break the P7 bins down like the P4.

You don't know what you're getting.

 

[coolwaters]

how long do i have to w8 for the D bin? im planning to get the D bin or but the C bin if the prices drop.

 

[znomit]

I really wish SSC would do a better job with the binning....
You don't know what you're getting.

You're getting bragging rights to high lumen numbers.

 

[phantom23]

LEDninja
So why good sellers like 'PhotonFanatic' are saying that their C bins (from current barches) have 740-900 lumens?

 

[HumanLumen]

Based on 700-800 lumens for a 'C' bin, we should be near the 'D' (desirable?) bin now - an R2 cree puts out a min of 114 Lm @ 350mA. The multiplier is 1.75 for 700mA, then you have x4 dies, thus we could be looking at 798 lumens, roughly based on the R2 (at the lowest point in its bin).
Caveat - P7 phosphor, more losses in a thicker lens and cree making available the top bins to their competitors!

HL

 

[LEDninja]

So why does the LINK on PhotonFanatic's sales thread go to a document that says 700-800 lumens? Don't just read what is on the post. Follow the links to the official documents as well.
As I pointed out we do not know if PhotonFanatic have a batch of old LEDs or new LEDs. Do not think PhotonFanatic knows.
Either way some of the LEDs will be in the 740-800 lm range. What we do not know is if the rest is 700-740 or 800-900.

phantom23
You seem to think if you buy an 'old C bin' get you automatically get a 900 lm LED. IMHO your chances of getting 900 lm are very slim.
For a SSC-P7 to have 900 lm all 4 dies have to be R2 bin or better. There is a shortage of R2 bins. For a LED that is released for a while there is very few flashlights using them. Especially from flashlight manufacturers that sell in quantity. If SSC can not get R2 they will use Q5. Even 4xQ5 can probably meet the 740 lm end of the old spec. A CPF member recently got a good look at the LED of his P7 lights when on. "While the tint is different, in both LEDs 1 die is brighter than the other 3." I suspect 1xR2+3xQ5 in those.
Even if all 4 dies are R2 your chances of getting a 900 lm @ 2.8A LED are very slim. Mac recently got 35 R2 LEDs, then sorted them:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=201190

Your chances of getting a top LED is 3/35.
Your chances of getting 4 top LEDs is 3/35*3/35*3/35*3/35 or 0.0054%.

If you just want bragging rights just buy one of them inexpensive SSC-P7 lights. '900 lumens' is silkscreened on the side. The latest ones even have 'C-bin' as well.

 

[phantom23]

I know there's no chance to get 900lm. But over 800lm is possible.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2412997&postcount=158
According to this, four dies at 700mA should produce 840lm. Don't tell me those 40 lumens don't exist because D bin is unavailable.
About Vf - remember that SSC emitters are selected, Cree not.
Last thing - documentation. It's the same situation like with U1/U2 bin of P4. Specs had changed about two months before they were released. They changed it because they're getting prepared for 700-800lm C and 800-900lm D bin.

 

[tebore]

I know there's no chance to get 900lm. But over 800lm is possible.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2412997&postcount=158
According to this, four dies at 700mA should produce 840lm. Don't tell me those 40 lumens don't exist because D bin is unavailable.
About Vf - remember that SSC emitters are selected, Cree not.
Last thing - documentation. It's the same situation like with U1/U2 bin of P4. Specs had changed about two months before they were released. They changed it because they're getting prepared for 700-800lm C and 800-900lm D bin.

While it's possible it's not known for sure if the P7 is using R2 dies. Or if the R2's improvements are from the die only it could also be the phosphor.

Also when your cram 4 dies together they're gonna heat up faster. There maybe less heat because each die is at a lower current. Also the world isn't perfect if vf matching is off then one die can take 50% of the current while the other 3 share the other 50%. This in turn causes a lot of heat.

There's a bunch of factors why the P7 might not hit a high lumen level.

 

[coolwaters]

so no one knows when the D-bin is coming out? next month? its holding back my hobby...

i'll probably get the c-bin if it doesnt come out soon...

 

[KrisP]

There's no ETA.

 

[jirik_cz]

Mac recently got 35 R2 LEDs, then sorted them:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=201190
..........
Your chances of getting a top LED is 3/35.
Your chances of getting 4 top LEDs is 3/35*3/35*3/35*3/35 or 0.0054%.

Mac didn't measure light flux he measured only VA characteristics. LED with different VA will differ only in a Vf at given current, but light flux is still going to be in the same R2 range.