Please educate me!

[artec540]

As a new member ( I joined only a couple of days ago) I'm abysmally ignorant on the complications of flashlights, headlamps, discharge lamps, incandescent, Xenon and all the other wonders. I thought by joining and reading enough posts, I'd learn enough to satisfy my needs. Instead I find that I don't even know what most of them are talking about!.
Is there a reasonably comprehensive source of information that I can find either on the 'net or at Barnes and Noble (or the equivalent) from which I can fill in the worst of the holes in my education?
I have spent large chunks of gold on a variety of flashlights and invariably been disappointed by one aspect or another of what I bought. So I've given away or sold all the heavy-duty numbers I owned, keeping the little pocket jobs, and I'm looking to get learn enough to select and get one that does what I really want.
Thanks in advance.
Can anyone steer me to a good source, please?

 

[Yoda4561]

Best place to start.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=172991

 

[climberkid]

well, :welcome: and you absolutely came to the right place. and you started with the right question. funny thing is, i was going to ask the same question sooner or later. the thing about wanting general knowledge is there is SOOO much to learn. so i would start with organizing from the start and asking some basic things you want to know then get into more details as you understand stuff. :sick2: that was a mouthfull:twothumbs

(or that link up there)

 

[Burgess]

to Artec540 --


Welcome to CandlePowerForums !

:welcome:



I can understand yer' confusion.


Try our CPF frequently asked questions section:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=172991


Hope this clears things up.

(after a few hours of intensive reading)



Edited to add:

to Yoda --

Very fast typist, you are.

Very good information, you suggest.

:wave:

EndEdit

_

 

[artec540]

Best place to start.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=172991

Thank your for the suggestion. My printer is still masticating the four sections of the LED Review but as soon as it has finished, I'll start it off on the magnum opus in the URL you have named. Obviously there are some bits I already know, but, from what I saw when I did a quick scan, there appear to be more that I don't.

From what little experience I have and what little I know, what I'm looking for:
is capable of being focused (concentrated) to a very narrow beam or spread out to a wide, evenly distributed carpet of light;
is fitted with a rechargeable battery;
uses an LED or LEDs (for long life);
isn't any bigger than 7 inches long;
throws a beam you can rest your foot on like a bar-room rail;
doesn't weigh too much (nice and specific, right?).

There are probably other criteria that I don't know enough to ask for, but this will do for a start, yes?

My car has bi-Xenon headlamps that fill many of the requirements, but it's a bit big to carry round and it's definitely longer than 7 inches..... too heavy, too.

Is there an answer that's obvious to every-one, or a type of light that would offer suitable models, or is this one of those deals where twenty people have at least twenty one answers, all different?

Thanks again for the help....... it's appreciated.

 

[artec540]

Thank you all for the help. There will now be a short pause (about a month) while I do my homework, after which I'll come back and make a further bloody idiot of myself. Luckily I'm used to it.

Who was it who said something about asking questions and looking foolish for a few minutes versus not asking and looking foolish for the rest of your life?

I wish it had been me!

 

[momonbubu]

:welcome: Good luck on your "homework", hope you'll enjoy your stay in CPF.

and remember after awhile, these two icons will be your best friend and .


cheers.
Giandi

 

[HKJ]

My car has bi-Xenon headlamps that fill many of the requirements, but it's a bit big to carry round and it's definitely longer than 7 inches..... too heavy, too.

Your can get that kind of lights without a car attached, but they longer than 7", and your can probably get a used car cheaper.

Your can see one here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=196233

Your can also get much cheaper HID lights .

 

[Gunner12]

I think the focusing would be that hardest part.

If you can't get focusing, what beam pattern would you prefer?

What output?
What runtime?
Would you like different modes?(lower modes, higher modes, strobe etc.)
Price?

If you want a narrow beam light and don't mind buying batteries and a charger for it, the Dereelight DBS would be a good LED light to look at.

IIRC most(if not all) HID lights are longer then 7".

If you have Maglites, this might be a thread that will interest you.

:welcome:

 

[adamlau]

What lights did you spend chunks of gold on? And which pocket jobs did you keep? Just to get a feel of where you are coming from...

 

[artec540]

Beginning to get educated.

Hi HJK,
Thanks for your helpful answer. I looked at the link you posted and saw that PH50 !!!! I'm surprised the wall it was aimed at remained standing. What are the chances of another group buy, do you think? Though, to be honest, I'm really not sure I'm up to spending two grand. Still, an incredible light.

I'll look for cheaper HID lights, I guess……. Any suggestions?

Gunner 12 suggests a Dereelight DBS, so I'll have a look at that.

Hi Gunner 12,
To answer your questions:

If I can't get focusing, I'd rather have a narrow beam without much spill.

I don't know enough to know how to answer your "output" question. If I could get a much narrower beam approaching the intensity of the PH 50, or even the PH 40, that would be fine.

If the battery is rechargeable in a reasonable time ( a couple of hours??) or if it's rechargeable and one can get additional batteries at a reasonable price, the run time probably wouldn't matter too much. But I like the idea of a run time that is flat until it dies rather than one where it tapers off until the light falls out like water from a low pressure hose pipe.

The 7 inches is certainly negotiable……. I just don't want anything I have to carry round in a pick-up. The Polarion looks as if it would be about the top end on size, but truthfully, although I love the idea of that sort of power, I could get by very nicely with much less.

I don't have any Maglights……. just the ones I listed.

I am going, right now, to look at the Dereelight and the IIRC HID (if the IIRC is a manufacturer's name?); I'll also look at the Maglight link, too. If the accessories (??) look interesting, I could always get a Maglight, after all.

Thanks too, to adamlau for the help.

By the standards of the Polarion, what I spent was never more than chump change. I had an M 60, which I just sold to a member of this forum because I wanted some more poke. Besides that, I bought, and kept, a Coast LED Lenser with 16 LEDs, one with three LEDs and two, marked "Browning by Xenon", each with three Lithium 23-135 cells. Not much money in all of them.

Many thanks to all.

 

[Yoda4561]

IIRC= internet acronym for "If I Recall Correctly". For HID check out batteryjunction's Mega Illuminator and N30. These are both sub-200 dollar 2000+ lumen HIDs. The Sams Club POB HID can be found for as little as 15 dollars on online auctions if you can spot them. It's not a very high quality unit compared to the others but for 15 bucks who cares?

 

[HKJ]

Your will not find anything that compares to the big HID lights, they are in a class of their own.

The best single led flashlights can about match a 6D maglite with new batteries.
There are starting to appear a new generation of leds that can match a small HID flashlight, but not from any quality manufactur yet.

In between leds and the big HID, your can get some smaller HID.

Another kind of flashlights are home build flashlights, this can be done by replacing the plastic in a maglite with metal/glass, add a big bulb and batteries to match, this kind of light can also be very bright, but only for a short time.

 

[Gunner12]

Single die LEDs are nowhere close to HIDs in output.

The DBS is 6 something inches and should throw like the Maglite 6D.

The H50 is also pretty expensive(even with the 8% off coupon "CPF8"). There might be a few very specialized LED mods that can match it in output or throw.

What would you need the light for?

Usually a thrower is not good for EDC but it would be good if you need a smaller sized spotish light often.

 

[artec540]

After reading the useful suggestions from HJK, Gunner12, Adamlau and others, I had a look at the Polarion and have to step smartly away before I get hurt!. Also looked at Dereelight but am baffled by a positive torrent of abbreviations which mean nothing to me and which I can't find in the glossary.

Sorry to plague you all again, but what do the following abbreviations mean?

DBS
V2 w/1SM-1
Cree XR-E (a kind of LED?)
WC
Q5 (OP)
Q5 (SMO)
Q5 (SMO & OP)
V2 w/1S
V2 w/2SD
V2 w/3SD
V2 w/DI

The prices of Dereelights seem to go from about $80 to about $145. If I knew that the $145 one gave me more of what I wanted, the price would not be much of a deterrent, but with that alphabet soup, I can't tell if one model is better than another! I realize that "better" is inevitably subjective, ie better for me may not be better for you, but I can't even tell what is better at doing what!

Aside from having helpful people to steer me (so far, anyway!), this is like trying to go shopping in Russian.

Now I'm going to have a look at the Fenix shop and see if I can make any sense of that.

 

[Gunner12]

DBS is a model by Dereelight, which is a company in China that makes flashlights.

V2 is just the version 2 of the DBS(a bit shorter)

The others are mainly the names for the pill.

SMO = smooth reflector.
OP = Orange Peel/textured reflector.

Q5 is a bin of the Cree(company) XR-E(model) LED. WC is the tint. This thread contains charts that might be helpful.

Q5(OP) probably means what every it is uses a Cree XR-E Q5 LED coupled with a textured reflector. The driver, current, voltage range and other stuff is not known.

What battery will you be running in the light and do you want multimode?

 

[artec540]

DBS is a model by Dereelight, which is a company in China that makes flashlights.

V2 is just the version 2 of the DBS(a bit shorter)

The others are mainly the names for the pill.

SMO = smooth reflector.
OP = Orange Peel/textured reflector.

Q5 is a bin of the Cree(company) XR-E(model) LED. WC is the tint. This thread contains charts that might be helpful.

Q5(OP) probably means what every it is uses a Cree XR-E Q5 LED coupled with a textured reflector. The driver, current, voltage range and other stuff is not known.

What battery will you be running in the light and do you want multimode?

Thanks again...... a font of information. No, I don't think I need multi-mode. I don't know what battery I would be using because I don't know what the choices are or what the advantages/disadvantages of each are. Somewhere else for guidance.

By googling HID flashlights (following a suggestion (yours?) that there were other and cheaper HIDs than the P5 available, I found something called the AEX 25W, which seems a bit bigger than I had reckoned on and I don't think it can be focused, but it appears to fit fairly well in other respects. Are you familiar with it and, if so, what do you think of it. It ain't cheap, but I doubt if any HID model is going to be cheap now that Sam's have all been eaten up. There is also a PL 24W. I take it that the W in each case is the output wattage, so these two should be comparable. I think the PL is a bit smaller, too.

 

[HKJ]

One manufacture with cheaper HID lights are: http://www.wolf-eyes.com/product/product.html

But compare the lumens (A measure of total light output) of the small HID lights to P7-series flashlights (They are the new generation of leds).


When your look at the Dereelight, your have to be very careful with your selection, look at the recommended batteries for each pill. With the wrong pill/battery:

Also, pills with 1.2A gives more light than 1A, as long as they both are Q5.

 

[artec540]

One manufacture with cheaper HID lights are: http://www.wolf-eyes.com/product/product.html

But compare the lumens (A measure of total light output) of the small HID lights to P7-series flashlights (They are the new generation of leds).


When your look at the Dereelight, your have to be very careful with your selection, look at the recommended batteries for each pill. With the wrong pill/battery:

Also, pills with 1.2A gives more light than 1A, as long as they both are Q5.

Yet again, thank you, HJK. I've had a good look at Mr Wolf-eyes and e-mailed him with a couple of questions and for prices. There doesn't seem to be any info on that topic, but , assuming the HID bulb, or whatever the proper name for it is, is in the right position in relation to the reflector and the reflector is accurate, it ought to produce good results?
As for the Dereelights, I duly looked at the batteries but was none the wiser. I'm sorry, but what is a "pill" and what happens if the combination is wrong? And what about it is wrong? The certainly looks disastrous and I accept that it is, but why?

I'm beginning to feel embarrassed about my fund of ignorance and becoming a royal pain in the your know what.

 

[HKJ]

As for the Dereelights, I duly looked at the batteries but was none the wiser. I'm sorry, but what is a "pill" and what happens if the combination is wrong? And what about it is wrong? The certainly looks disastrous and I accept that it is, but why?

Pill is the name for a small electronic and led module that can be replaced in some flashlights. This module define some of the abilities of the flashlight, like what kind of batteries it can use, what led it uses, how much light the led gives and how many modes the flashlight has.

The reason for batteries is because many combinations are possible in the same flashlight tube. The possibilities for DBS are:

2 x CR123A primary battery (total 6 volt).
2 x RCR123A rechargable 3.2 volt battery (total 6.4 volt).
2 x RCR123A (also called 16340) rechargable 3.7 volt battery (total 7.2 volt).
1 x 18650/17670 rechargable 3.7 volt battery (total 3.7 volt)

PS: The total voltage is a bit higher that I have specified when your have freshly recharged batteries.

All these battery combinations are nearly identical in size, but as your can see the output voltage are very different. A pill with a max. voltage of 4.2 volt would if used with anything but a single 3.7 volt battery.

Here is the list of all Dereelights pills:
http://www.dereelight.com/pills.htm

When your buy a DBC it will include one of these pills, but your have to select one that fits with the battery your are going to use.
If your want rechargeable only, the 18650/17670 batteries are best, but if your would like the possibility for CR123A batteries, your need a pill that can take at least 6 volt (For 6 volt pill do not use RCR123A or ).


Here are a picture or 18650 and CR123A cells:

It is very important that the cells says "protected" when using Li-ion batteries, this reduces the risk of accidental (Like some cellphones and laptop computers).