Possible additional reason on why INOVA passed on SSC P4/CREE

[pilou]

Of course, we have discussed in the past possible problems in obtaining the large quantities of these LEDs needed by INOVA, just when these new LEDS were coming out. We also discussed possible long term commitments by INOVA to Lumileds.

But I do wonder whether there were additional reasons for INOVA to have stayed away from the them, and to continue stating away from them until the next generation of LEDs comes out. At this point, there is no doubt in my mind that the SSC P4s are not robust. Tint shifting, browning, etc., have been a problems with more than one light. This LED seems to be too finicky to be considered really robust. the Crees have shown no such problems, but their beam patterns have drawn criticism by some.

So perhaps INOVA will continue staying away from them until the next generations are produced. All the reviews of the new 2007 T-series INOVAs I have read indicate extremely good tint, and more importantly, flawless beam quality. Perhaps INOVA will continue favoring the less efficient K2s, paying a price in efficiency for the sake of more robustness and better beam quality. Of course, it could all have be coincidence and INOVA perhaps never considered these issues

 

[o0o]

Of course, we have discussed in the past possible problems in obtaining the large quantities of these LEDs needed by INOVA, just when these new LEDS were coming out. We also discussed possible long term commitments by INOVA to Lumileds.

But I do wonder whether there were additional reasons for INOVA to have stayed away from the them, and to continue stating away from them until the next generation of LEDs comes out. At this point, there is no doubt in my mind that the SSC P4s are not robust. Tint shifting, browning, etc., have been a problems with more than one light. This LED seems to be too finicky to be considered really robust. the Crees have shown no such problems, but their beam patterns have drawn criticism by some.

So perhaps INOVA will continue staying away from them until the next generations are produced. All the reviews of the new 2007 T-series INOVAs I have read indicate extremely good tint, and more importantly, flawless beam quality. Perhaps INOVA will continue favoring the less efficient K2s, paying a price in efficiency for the sake of more robustness and better beam quality. Of course, it could all have be coincidence and INOVA perhaps never considered these issues

I don't own an SSC P4, but am a little hesitant because I understand they are made in Korea. Asian products not named Japan (Japan being the exception) have given me tons of problems, so I generally stay way.

I don't see any issues with Cree beam patterns. The few Crees I have feature beams that are just as good (in terms of few to no artifacts) than Luxeon lights.

 

[FASTCAR]

More artifacs are found in cree beams then king Tuts tomb.

 

[Cydonia]

Of course, we have discussed in the past possible problems in obtaining the large quantities of these LEDs needed by INOVA, just when these new LEDS were coming out. We also discussed possible long term commitments by INOVA to Lumileds.

But I do wonder whether there were additional reasons for INOVA to have stayed away from the them, and to continue stating away from them until the next generation of LEDs comes out. At this point, there is no doubt in my mind that the SSC P4s are not robust. Tint shifting, browning, etc., have been a problems with more than one light. This LED seems to be too finicky to be considered really robust. the Crees have shown no such problems, but their beam patterns have drawn criticism by some.

So perhaps INOVA will continue staying away from them until the next generations are produced. All the reviews of the new 2007 T-series INOVAs I have read indicate extremely good tint, and more importantly, flawless beam quality. Perhaps INOVA will continue favoring the less efficient K2s, paying a price in efficiency for the sake of more robustness and better beam quality. Of course, it could all have be coincidence and INOVA perhaps never considered these issues

I concur completely with your statement. I'll make another prediction too - SureFire will never use an SSC in any product.
Inova may well use Cree next year. I hope.


The SSC is a weak part when compared to others. The soft silicone dome is vulnerable to pressure and attracts dust etc., very unusual - a unique LED by virtue of these characteristics. But I ordered 4 of em' anyway from DX @ $6.95 each As long as you know what you're getting and do a super well heatsinked job they are good! I upgraded two MagLED's to SSC P4 and the results are awesome. Two Mag 2C single SSC are super too.

 

[270winchester]

I don't own an SSC P4, but am a little hesitant because I understand they are made in Korea. Asian products not named Japan (Japan being the exception) have given me tons of problems, so I generally stay way.

I don't see any issues with Cree beam patterns. The few Crees I have feature beams that are just as good (in terms of few to no artifacts) than Luxeon lights.

Korea has been a center of Semiconductor production for that half of the globe for quite a while now. They were one of the first to implement real statistical process control in their fabs and are really good at it. Most of the world's RAMs are made there AFAIK and they have in fact surpassed Japan in that particular business about 6-8 years ago.

Nothing can keep Cree honest than a tough competitor from the east.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Korea has been a center of Semiconductor production for that half of the globe for quite a while now. They were one of the first to implement real statistical process control in their fabs and are really good at it. Most of the world's RAMs are made there AFAIK and they have in fact surpassed Japan in that particular business about 6-8 years ago.

Nothing can keep Cree honest than a tough competitor from the east.

Yep. South Korea is way different from the rest of Asia (minus Japan). They actually develop original technology instead of ripping off euro or american patented inventions.

 

[Size15's]

I concur completely with your statement. I'll make another prediction too - SureFire will never use an SSC in any product.

Erm... SureFire's flagship product - the Titan uses a SSC LED.
More importantly, SureFire's most important new LED product uses a SSC LED - the LED version of the P60 - the P60L as used by the 6PL and G2L.

SureFire will sell far more P60L's & P60L-based products than Cree XR-E LED products without a doubt.

Al

 

[knot]

Does the reflector or optic not have more to do with beam quality than the LED itself? A audiophile's $$$ system through a $10 pair of speakers is going to sound like crap no matter what.

 

[o0o]

Does the reflector or optic not have more to do with beam quality than the LED itself? A audiophile's $$$ system through a $10 pair of speakers is going to sound like crap no matter what.

That is what I am wondering.

I'm perfectly happy with the beam on my Cree BOG drop-ins... which have textured reflectors. These beams are so good that I cannot see any artifiacts (and I am obsessed about lack of artifacts).

Also, my Cree Fenix lights have acceptable--though not perfect-- beams. I'm sure the smooth refectors in the Fenix account for the minor artifacts.

Maybe the deal is that the artifacts are most noticable in optics based lights???

From my Luxeon optics based lights, in my opinon, artifacts are MAGNIFIED and made WORSE by the use of optics. Maybe that holds even more true for Cree???

 

[SemiMan]

Cree LED do not have a wide lambertian pattern similar to Lumileds. The project much of their light forward in a 70 degree pattern. This makes it much harder to design a reflector that is artifact free. Textured reflectors fix this, but at the expense of throw. Hence it is tough to get great throw with a corresponding nice spill that blend nicely as well.

Love my Fenix L2D-CE output, but the beam pattern compared to my Innova is night and day.

Perhaps Innova not releasing is an indication of how close Lumileds is to releasing high brightness products into production.

 

[WadeF]

Could Innova have a contract with Lumileds that doesn't allow them to use LED's made by other companies?

 

[mossyoak]

Could Innova have a contract with Lumileds that doesn't allow them to use LED's made by other companies?

thats what i tinhk why else would they have thrown that piece of junk lumileds emitter in the 3rd gen X1?

 

[wintermute]

I don't own an SSC P4, but am a little hesitant because I understand they are made in Korea. Asian products not named Japan (Japan being the exception) have given me tons of problems, so I generally stay way.

I don't see any issues with Cree beam patterns. The few Crees I have feature beams that are just as good (in terms of few to no artifacts) than Luxeon lights.

Samsung LCDs produced in South Korea are some of the best panels made in the world. Also, in terms of biotechnology (something I am involved in) South Korea is one of the leading countries. Resistance to a product just because it is made in South Korea is kind of pointless.

 

[orbital]

+

Hey MattK, what do you think?

If they only used SSC & 2 or 3 stage switch,.....!!

 

[carrot]

Nothing can keep Cree honest than a tough competitor from the east.

Okay, but last I checked the SSC LED's use Cree dies.

 

[mossyoak]

the both use the EZ1000, but isnt that made by some other company?

 

[Illumination]

Maybe Inova doesnt want to sell any lights for a while.

I'm only half kidding. All of the slow moving big companies (like Inova, Surefire, etc.) must have seen sales (at least to those in the know) dry up as the more nimble competitors like Fenix quickly upgraded to the more efficient Cree/SSCs.

Unless they know something about something new on the near horizon, it seems pretty shortsighted to only sell the older Luxeons.

 

[woodrow]

I bought a new 2007 Inova T3, and paid $18 for 2nd day air to get it quickly. I really wanted to like the light. When I compare its 9 volts (3x123a's) next to my D-mini with its OP reflector running on 3.7v, I can only be dissapointed. The D-mini has just as good of a beam, just 40% brighter.

Will Inova suffer for not having Cree leds? I don't think they well this year or most likely even next. Very few people have ever seen or used a Cree led, so they do not know what they are missing. Two years form now... we will have to see.

 

[PhantomPhoton]

Bottom line IMO is Inova knows it can survive on average instead of exceptional lights for the time being. They're too busy getting products into Department Stores like Target to worry about having the best possible light. We Inova fans can only hope that next year they do a better job.

 

[Robocop]

I am not sure as to many of the higher power Inova lights however this must be the ones that received good reviews on tint as many things I have read on their newer X1 series have been mostly bad as far as tint goes. I am a big fan of Inova however am very dissapointed with their new X1.

The trend these days seems to be smaller and brighter......look at how many single AA luxeons we now have to purchase where as a few years back a item such as that was a very hot commodity. I was hoping that Inova would have opted for a luxeon of any sort for their smaller X1 however their current version is horrible on tint. I tested at least 15 on the display at the Target nearby and it seemed that 12 of the 15 had a sickly brown/yellow tint.

I am assuming that Inova does have some form of contract or restriction to limit their usage of certain parts.