Primary Lithium battery explodes!

[hookoo]

Hello LunarModule, thanks for the kind words of warning. Half the house was covered in smoke. Smoke detectors all went off near by the incident. The t-shirt and skirt went up in flames so those were safely disposed, ruined unfortunately. The carpet is the worse part as it melted. Better then a burned down house though ! After reading what happened to you I wish I were more cautious in the handling of the battery and clean-up. I am very sorry you got sick from the incident. Get well soon !

I don't want to point blame to the battery. However, I do feel that the battery should not of exploded like it did regardless of the charger. I would be more apt to think that the charger itself would be damaged by the battery then the other way around. But, I really don't know for sure.

 

[kromeke]

Hookoo,
More info on PTC.

PTC stands for Positive Temperature Coeffecient. A PTC device is a form of resistor whose resistance changes with temperature. A resistor whose resistance changes greatly with temperature is usually called a thermistor. A PTC thermistor's resistance increases with temperature. As the temperature increases, the resistance gets much larger and this restricts the amount of current which flows through it. It is a simple safety device used on certain batteries.

Now, an aside, there are also NTC devices, but these are not used in batteries. They are Negitive Temperature Coeffecient. Their resistance decreases with an increase of temperature. I only mention this so one undestands exactly what the positive in PTC means.

Hope this helps.

 

[James S]

I think several things must go wrong to make something like this happen. The cell obviously did not vent as it was designed, but exploded.

Does this charger thing crank down hard on the batteries? I have watched some devices of mine that are too tight and actually damage the battery top and potentially the venting and other stuff in there if you screw it all the way closed.

I've used a LOT of these batteries from batterystation and haven't had any problem with them, but my uses are all pretty low current as these things go. But then I think this charger is pretty low current draw too. Just too much current being pulled shouldn't cause it to explode like that!

 

[David_Campen]

I believe tha hydrogen gas that gets mentioned is due to the fact that Alkaline batteries do produce hydrogen in normal use.

Now, metallic lithium (which is used in lithium primary batteries) will produce hydrogen upon contact with water (actually the hydrogen comes from the water as it contacts lithium, producing lithium oxide and hydrogen gas)

Yeah, hydrogen gas is a problem with alkaline batteries but not with Li/MnO2 or Li/FeS2 batteries. I don't think that there was any hydrogen gas involved in causing the explosive venting events recently described with 123 and Li-AA cells.

 

[David_Campen]

I really hope you got changed the air in that room fast and didnt breathe any of that stuff any more than what was unavoidable. Also, HANDLE EVERYTHING WITH RUBBER GLOVES. Wash hands, face, arms,. any exposed skin with lots of water. Plastic bag the battery remnants. Send it to Kevin at Battery Station. Throw the tshirt it landed on away. Dont try cleaning it, just toss it.

I had a Battery Station CR123 pair explode on me last Thursday and I got really sick (poisoned) from the smoke and wet charred crud from the batteries, handling with bare hands and not washing up thoroughly. I didnt take the warnings seriously. You know warning labels, they all sound like the end of the world, they have to, to insure the manufacturers are covered. I never expected to be puking my guts out 12 hours after, which stayed for 2 days. Skin rash all over my whole body, blood test found liver enzymes off the charts, erratic heartbeat, burning sensation in my throat and on my tongue. In my case it was mostly hydrofluoric acid vapor that has a significant delayed onset. It takes a while for the flourine to break off the acid in the body and free radical fluorine attacks many delicate chemical conversion processes in the body. For a burn as little as 2 percent of body surface area, HF can be lethal, shutting down the heart and lungs long after ingestion, no warning, no picnic!

It is certainly good to take standard precautions such as using gloves but according to the Energizer Li-AA MSDS they do not contain any fluorides, if the same is true for the BatteryStation cells then HF exposure should not be a problem here.

 

[carrot]

It is certainly good to take standard precautions such as using gloves but according to the Energizer Li-AA MSDS they do not contain any fluorides, if the same is true for the BatteryStation cells then HF exposure should not be a problem here.

HF exposure may not be a problem but when handling any unknown chemical substances it is a prudent habit to take proper safety precautions. Besides, there are other by-products of catastrophic battery failure with Li-AA that, while not *as* dangerous as HF, are still bad for your health. Just don't take risks.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Holy cow! Glad that everyone is ok. What a scary event!

I think you should report this to the Consumer Product Safety Commission at once. If the instructions indicate that such asn activity is OK, there could be many other explosions and/or fires happening.

 

[[email protected]]

Jeepers - thank the stars you were there to put it out! Glad you are all okay.

 

[sandworm]

I'm thinking I need to buy a couple more fire extinguishers..

 

[enLIGHTenment]

Lithium fires require Class D Type 2 powdered copper extinguishers. Regular ABC extinguishers won't put out lithium; all they can do is put out whatever the lithium is burning on. If the lithium does not burn itself out before an ABC extinguisher is empty, you'll need another extinguisher (or more) to contain the flames.

If an appropriate extinguisher is not available, a lithium fire can be smothered with dry sand.

Do not use water on a lithium fire. It'll only make the problem worse.

 

[hookoo]

Lithium fires require Class D Type 2 powdered copper extinguishers. Regular ABC extinguishers won't put out lithium; all they can do is put out whatever the lithium is burning on. If the lithium does not burn itself out before an ABC extinguisher is empty, you'll need another extinguisher (or more) to contain the flames.

If an appropriate extinguisher is not available, a lithium fire can be smothered with dry sand.

Do not use water on a lithium fire. It'll only make the problem worse.

I would agree with this to the experience I had trying to put the fire out. The fire went out but the lithium material was burning hot. All I could do is continue using the extinguiser to keep things from getting worse.

 

[kromeke]

To add to the fire extinguisher bit:

If you have nothing else, and we are only talking about 1 or 2 lithium cells, I do believe that hosing it down with copious amounts of water would be better than nothing. Yes, the lithium will react with the water and may temporarly make things worse, but it will eventually react the few grams of lithium out and cool the reaction. Now, battling a case of lithium batteries which is on fire is a different story. Then I'd evacuate.

I just wanted to say this as a last resort. if your extinguisher has been exhausted and you have nothing else handy.

Of course, if things get bad, you should get everyone out of the residence and call the fire department.

As usual, treat this as bad advice if you will, I will not claim responsibility if your house burns down because you tried to put out a lithium fire with water.

If you are regularly handling large amounts of lithium batteries, you should invest in a Class D extinguisher, preferably copper powder. I believe the sodium chloride based Class D will work, but not as well. A copper powder class D is on the order of $600, a sodium chloride based one is half that.

 

[Handlobraesing]

Hire an attorney.

http://www.turbocellcharge.com/main.html, click on FAQ

The FAQ from the charger's manufacturer explicitly states lithium battery is ok to use.

 

[SemiMan]

Unless the turbocharger damages the battery on insertion, going after the charger manufacturer is going to be pretty pointless. The reality is that in the real world, accidents happen and batteries can be accidentally shorted out, especially primary batteries which are often thrown willy nilly into drawers and the like. Battery manufacturers take this very seriously. Hurting customers is very bad for business and if you are Sanyo, Panasonic, Duracell, Enegergizer, etc. the last thing you need is a front page story of your product burning down a house. To that end, these name brand companies are going to do their best to ensure their products are safe. They may not always get it right, but on average, they are going to be safer than a no-name factory in China that private labels.

Somewhere in the middle is the "name-brand" Asian manufacturers such as GP and Konnoc. These companies tend to have large industrial accounts that would also not take favourably to catastrophic events, but not the public publicity of the consumer brands. It may be safer to pay a little more for one of these brands until Lithiums have been in the market long enough that all safety issues are resolved?

Semiman

 

[dyyys1]

While the fact that there have been two major battery explosions within days of one another is an incredible coincidence, we have to remember that it is just that: a coincidence. Considering the number of batteries used by the thousands of people who use CPF, there are very few accidents, explosions, or fires that occur. While these events are important to discuss in order to prevent them and to warn us to be careful with batteries, the risk you take in using these batteries is extremely low.
We all take risks daily. These risks are part of life. Think of driving, for example. Driving is very dangerous. How about stairs? Stairs have the potential to be deadly if you fall. Some things that we wish to do are risky. Does that mean we should never do them? Absolutely not! In many daily activities, the reward is worth the risks. Some risks are low enough that I am willing to accept them. If I made a list of all the risks I take every day, using batteries would be near the bottom.
I will say again that we should examine these stories to stay informed and prepared for the worst case scenario (the Boy Scout Motto is "Be Prepared") and to prevent their recurrence. However, this does not necessarily need to have a profound impact on the flashlights you are willing to use. These explosions we read about occur only in isolated, unique, hard-to-duplicate circumstances. Until a risk becomes greater than the reward, there is no reason to stop doing what you are doing. However, I understand if you are a safety freak (like my mother). If you are uncomfortable using a tool that is even slightly dangerous then don't use it.
Always make yourself aware of the risks and the rewards in whatever you do and make an intelligent choice based on the information you gather. Personally, I am going to be careful and treat these batteries with the respect they warrant, but I am still going to use them. I have a SFA2 coming in the mail, and I am very excited, not worried about batteries.

 

[frisco]

While the fact that there have been two major battery explosions within days of one another is an incredible coincidence, we have to remember that it is just that: a coincidence. Considering the number of batteries used by the thousands of people who use CPF, there are very few accidents, explosions, or fires that occur. While these events are important to discuss in order to prevent them and to warn us to be careful with batteries, the risk you take in using these batteries is extremely low.
We all take risks daily. These risks are part of life. Think of driving, for example. Driving is very dangerous. How about stairs? Stairs have the potential to be deadly if you fall. Some things that we wish to do are risky. Does that mean we should never do them? Absolutely not! In many daily activities, the reward is worth the risks. Some risks are low enough that I am willing to accept them. If I made a list of all the risks I take every day, using batteries would be near the bottom.
I will say again that we should examine these stories to stay informed and prepared for the worst case scenario (the Boy Scout Motto is "Be Prepared") and to prevent their recurrence. However, this does not necessarily need to have a profound impact on the flashlights you are willing to use. These explosions we read about occur only in isolated, unique, hard-to-duplicate circumstances. Until a risk becomes greater than the reward, there is no reason to stop doing what you are doing. However, I understand if you are a safety freak (like my mother). If you are uncomfortable using a tool that is even slightly dangerous then don't use it.
Always make yourself aware of the risks and the rewards in whatever you do and make an intelligent choice based on the information you gather. Personally, I am going to be careful and treat these batteries with the respect they warrant, but I am still going to use them. I have a SFA2 coming in the mail, and I am very excited, not worried about batteries.

I agree with you for the most part.......

I just think of all the Lithium batteries in baby toys and such......

frisco

 

[AlexGT]

You said you have 2 Lithium batteries right? Can you check for a batch number or expiration date on the other battery that you have? Is the batch number or expiration date visible on the damaged battery?

Please post the numbers, Kevin from Batterystation is going to have a nervous breakdown when he sees this!

Can the manufacturer have changed something in a batch that is causing this weird explosions?

AlexGT

Edit: I PM'ed and emailed Batterystation about this thread he probably will post when he reads it

 

[James S]

it would be terrific if we could narrow this down to just 1 bad batch from the manufacturer. Unfortunately I'm holding a battery station cell here and it has no batch number or anything like that I can see... That might be something he can get the manufacturer to do.

If we knew that it was just a bad batch, they could be replaced and nobody need worry about the rest of them. The difference between a manufacturing problem and a defective product.

ALL manufacturers of lithium batteries have made a few mistake batches. Every computer manufacturer has had to recall some LiIon batteries due to defective cells in a batch. If we could discover if this is all that is, i'd be a much happier fellow. Time to add batch numbers to the cells!

 

[batterystation]

Another UL approved product. Unreal. Well that project is still new enough that I don't have solid numbers to substantiate any track record or any known problem. Please send that device and battery to us. In the mean time, I can fix that one for sure. I tried all weekend to blow up a CR123A with no luck. I did see that my Sanyos are now made in China. That is new. I don't know what more to say about that AA other than I sure am glad nobody was hurt.

Over 20 years in the battery business, I have seen a lot of things like this but it is VERY upsetting when you have so much time, energy, pride, emotion, money, etc. in something that does this.

Please email me and send everything back for replacement. If not directly able to replace, I will do my best otherwise to reimburse. I requested can dates on these but not sure they did it. Under the label. The CR123A given the numbers has a great record and sells millions a year worldwide. This has not been around long enough. Easiest thing to do here is halt it.

I was just trying to give the bunny some competition. The bunny has also had some trouble with these. Anyone that would like may send the AAs back for refund or exchange.

I am VERY sorry......

 

[dyyys1]

I agree with you for the most part.......

I just think of all the Lithium batteries in baby toys and such......

frisco

Ouch. That might be a different situation. I hadn't thought of that.