Pro-Life

[notos&w]

my first child will be born somewhere around march 3 - 19. i cannot imagine someone telling me that the picture of those feet and hands on the very first sonogram was not a "person" with a soul. see psalm 139-13-16 (thats for you doubleganger - my fellow mississippian).

thanks for standing up for what is right but not always convenient, peter. i applaud your bravery. as i mentioned in my email, i think ill commemorate my son's birth w/ an LS (if can find the $).

this is a difficult topic but there is very clearly a morally correct answer.

 

[Albany Tom]

Here in the US we DON'T have a democracy, and that's by design. We have a constitutional republic. Our laws are created by elected representatives, and must fit within the guidelines of our constitution. It it not enough for 51% of the people to want to make something illegal, it has to be constitutional, and it has to be done through our legislature.

Just my observation, but those contraceptive comments seem about 2 steps away from a racial purity argument. To me a little spooky. (No pun intended!) I'm waiting for a group of Amish to pop on and tell us that computers and flashlights are both "against the will of God", as they interfere with the darkness which is his design.

There has to be a question as to morality, otherwise there wouldn't be so many strong opinions. You don't see the same types of argument for and against bank robbery, for example. So if it's a question, then to me we should err on the side of freedom, because to me, and many, many people before me, freedom is more important than life itself. This goes counter to many religious beliefs, but is fundamental to our very existence as a country.

 

[2dogs]

Peter. I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with you any day. I'm proud of your stance and your courage. May God pour out his blessings on you.

 

[x-ray]

Albany Tom,

Forgive me for going a little off topic here but just wanted to pick up on what you said about laws having to fit with the constitution.

Now being that I am from the UK I may have this wrong, but as I understand it the constitution gives all US citizens the right to bear arms, but it also appears that many US states are imposing a lot of restrictions on the who can & can't carry a gun and also the type of weapons allowed.
So I guess I am asking how they are able to bring in non-constitutional legislation ?

I don't want to drag this thread into gun control territory, I believe there is already a thread elsewhere concerning just that topic

 

[MicroE]

X-Ray---You are way off topic, but let me answer that. Here in the US we have to have some type of control on guns. Guns are deadly (just like cars) and the owner should be trained (just like cars) and have an IQ well above moss.
The US Constitution gives us the right to form a militia and to arm said militia.
(How else could we have kept the Brits at bay?

)

2dogs---Your tagline is troubling. If you are too lazy to work then who is going to support all of the un-aborted babies that the mothers don't want?

Randy---I am deeply sorry for your loss. I hope that you enjoy your children every day.

 

[lemlux]

MicroE:

If I remember my drill sergeant correctly, X-Ray may not be too far off topic. Any basic trainee foolish enough to refer to his rifle as a gun was forced to repeatedly chant:

"This is my rifle (point at rifle), This is my gun (point between the legs). This one's for fighting. This one's for fun."

I suspect this training lesson may still be imparted on basic trainees.

 

[Rotten Ron]

I choose life!

 

[MicroE]

O.K. Let's summarize:

Life Begins:
1.) Before conception, or
2.) At conception, or
3.) When the heart begins beating, or
4.) When the brainwaves begin, or
5.) When the baby takes its first breath.

Now that we've cleared that up let's move on to the US Constitution.

The Second Amendment allows us to:
A.) Form a national army, or
B.) Form an armed militia in each state, or
C.) Perch a full-auto machine gun on the top of each of our SUV's and shoot at rude drivers.

---Marc

 

[Kiessling]

RottenRon, you cannot chose life. the only thing for sure in your life except the fact of existing itself is that that you will eventually die.
no one can chose life, but death choses us all.
so being born starts the big tragedy called life with an all too certain end ...
bernhard

(no smilie this time)

 

[Charles Bradshaw]

I am vehemently opposed to any Religion dictating their narrow Dogma via fiat of LAW.

According to the Dogma of Monotheist Religions, Woman has NO rights and is OWNED (property of) Man. Also, Homosexuals are Minions of Satan, because God is against them. Same for other Religions, etcetera.

What I clearly see, are the Nephilim hard at work, within organized Religions and Governments (also in some Corporations).

No tolerance of others, no freedom of choice, inequality, controlling via fear, terror, and hatred are the tools of Satan and the Nephilim.

 

[2dogs]

** The civility has ended. Personal attack removed by Darell **

Moderator, do what you will with this post. I think you should kill this thread.

 

[MicroE]

2dogs---I apologize. I didn't mean to offend you. I thought that your tagline was cute. Please lighten up and keep a sense of humour.

By the way, I never stated my opinion here on abortion so you shouldn't be so quick to draw conclusions.---Marc

 

[Darell]

** Locked **

 

[notos&w]

MicroE, the 2nd amendment does much more than give us (which i presume you to mean the states b/c meaning individuals would go against the entire thrust of the individual right theory which is contra to the collectivist, militia theory) the right to form a militia. it is not limited to members of the organized militia.

to keep it on topic, the 2nd amendment specifically says "the people" and "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

what i do not see, and have never seen in the constitution or other historical document of that era, is a "right to privacy." Roe v. Wade is fundamentally flawed on all accounts. i am very confident it will one day be relegated to the status of Lochner v. New York (another US Sup Ct case without any textual or historical support that is the subject of constant ridicule).

 

[Kiessling]

darkgear, this is ultra-heavy. I will not comment on this because it would take an aproach far too long and too complete no one would ever read. but the direction you are heading seems dark, indeed.

religion: an instrument of control. yes. BUT consider this: something that gives you the ultimate and absolute definition of good and evil, that can forgive your sins (think about that one, and think long!), that tells you what is right and wrong.

all "true believers" have an easy life with that: they do not have to make up their minds about these horrible questions, they do not have to justify their decicions before their own conscience, because theirs is Him. I truly envy you people who still roam the earth with eyes closed ... and you even get your paradise and are relieved of man's greatest fear: death.

so, I think the metaphysical aspect of life was very much easier when religion still dominated our societies with an iron fist, and I understand that those believers want it all back the way it was.

only that those who opened their eyes to reason and truth can never let that happen. the dark ages have passed and our societies are evolving into something new. of course the process of reshaping a whole fundament of mankind is painful and there will be a lot more ugly things to be discussed.

the bottom line is this: if you leave out believes (religion) in this discussion - what you have to do - you should all feel the undeniable force of the arguments of those people opting against "pro-life". note that I do not call them "pro-choice", this would be far too simple.

I feel threatened by movements like "pro-life". they evoke the fear of dark ages of mind and body control beyond anything I could imagine as an acceptable life for all of us.

bernhard

p.s.: that does not mean that they have nothing to say or to contribute here or that I would not honor whichever way they might handle this problem, but DON'T YOU DARE IMPOSING YOUR ETHICS ON ME, as I will not impose mine on you.

no long post without a smilie:

 

[Kiessling]

this thread is really really civil!!!!!
CPF rocks!!!!
... at a very high level.

shouldn't we end it here, though?

bernhard