Protected cells in a zebralight

[ltec]

I have a zebralight headtorch. I think a h604c. I like it but don't use it as I'm afraid of unprotected cells.
Last night I put a protected cell in it and it worked. Why does zebralight recommend unprotected if protected fits but more importantly is using a protected cell unsafe in it for any reason or damage the head torch.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

No offence meant. But you might want to spend some time on Google learning about li-ion and batteries..... You'll then very easily be able to answer your questions.

As for being unsafe, so is petrol (aka gasoline). If you will only use protected cells, then you should also only drive a diesel car

As for Zebralight saying unprotected, it will be 2 reaons:

1. Length. Most protected cells are longer and may prevent the cap screwing down and completing the circuit, but it will be dependant on a per cell brand/type basis.

2. Oh high demand lights with high amp draw, it may trip the protection circuit (most protected cells handle less current). If this happens the battery output will be 0.0 volts and the light will turn off. And you'll need to put the battery in a charger to reset the circuit. Having a light turning off in this fashion isn't very useful.

An IMR or INR unprotected cell won't suffer with this and will keep working.

 

[AB8XL]

Zebralight implements a cut off voltage of 2.7 volts in all their lights that use Li-ion batteries, thus the circuit protection is already built in to the light.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

I have never had a protected cell trip on me, though now these years most of my used flashlights have unprotected. Practice good battery management regardless if you use protected or not. Use your protected if they will fit well enough.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

I have never had a protected cell trip on me, though now these years most of my used flashlights have unprotected. Practice good battery management regardless if you use protected or not. Use your protected if they will fit well enough.

I have had. My SWM V11R used to on my protected AW 16340s. Not straight away, but you never knew when it would do it, leaving you in total darkness.

 

[turbodog]

I have a zebralight headtorch. I think a h604c. I like it but don't use it as I'm afraid of unprotected cells.
Last night I put a protected cell in it and it worked. Why does zebralight recommend unprotected if protected fits but more importantly is using a protected cell unsafe in it for any reason or damage the head torch.

Post #3 and also... protected are longer AND larger diameter due to the conductive strip running down the side and extra layer of shrink wrap. If this wire gets exposed... bad things will happen.

I used to run protected in my zebralights, going through 2x18650/week. The cells died due to age... could not find replacements... and the new unprotected cells are doing fine.

You will see a HUGE brightness dropoff before the light cuts off, tons of advance warning.

 

[alpg88]

protection needed when you have 2 or more cells in series, due to reverse charge, for a single cell light there is no need for protection circuit. nor for a multicell light that has all cells in parallel.
What protected cell did you manage to fit in your ZL? my ZL 600 would not take any protected cell i tried due to length.

 

[ltec]

No offence meant. But you might want to spend some time on Google learning about li-ion and batteries..... You'll then very easily be able to answer your questions.

As for being unsafe, so is petrol (aka gasoline). If you will only use protected cells, then you should also only drive a diesel car

As for Zebralight saying unprotected, it will be 2 reaons:

1. Length. Most protected cells are longer and may prevent the cap screwing down and completing the circuit, but it will be dependant on a per cell brand/type basis.

2. Oh high demand lights with high amp draw, it may trip the protection circuit (most protected cells handle less current). If this happens the battery output will be 0.0 volts and the light will turn off. And you'll need to put the battery in a charger to reset the circuit. Having a light turning off in this fashion isn't very useful.

An IMR or INR unprotected cell won't suffer with this and will keep working.

Anybody starting with no offence meant, really means I dont care if your offended or not. I have done a bit of googling on batteries and is why I came to my conclusion. No one is forcing you to answer my question.
Fenix says Users must decide whether they prefer protected cells which are safer to operate or accept the bigger responsibility and danger associated with unprotected cells. Most battery specialists will recommend you always use protected batteries.
When buying a car you are not warned that petrol cars are more dangerous than diesel so no offence meant but thats just stupid. An electric car on batteries is the most dangerous to work on.

 

[ltec]

Post #3 and also... protected are longer AND larger diameter due to the conductive strip running down the side and extra layer of shrink wrap. If this wire gets exposed... bad things will happen.

I used to run protected in my zebralights, going through 2x18650/week. The cells died due to age... could not find replacements... and the new unprotected cells are doing fine.

You will see a HUGE brightness dropoff before the light cuts off, tons of advance warning.

I only use it on low settings somewhere around 100 to 150 lumens so will it still warn me at these levels. Does it just go really dim that I'll notice.

 

[ltec]

protection needed when you have 2 or more cells in series, due to reverse charge, for a single cell light there is no need for protection circuit. nor for a multicell light that has all cells in parallel.
What protected cell did you manage to fit in your ZL? my ZL 600 would not take any protected cell i tried due to length.

I tried a different protected cell their now and it fitted in no bother to. It was a eagtac and an xtar. The spring on the tail cap is very long, probably as much as 13mm which allows for a lot of difference.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Anybody starting with no offence meant, really means I dont care if your offended or not. I have done a bit of googling on batteries and is why I came to my conclusion. No one is forcing you to answer my question.
Fenix says Users must decide whether they prefer protected cells which are safer to operate or accept the bigger responsibility and danger associated with unprotected cells. Most battery specialists will recommend you always use protected batteries.
When buying a car you are not warned that petrol cars are more dangerous than diesel so no offence meant but thats just stupid. An electric car on batteries is the most dangerous to work on.

I think you need to do more research.

As for the car reference. Petrol is far more volatile than diesel. Thus far more dangerous as a fuel to use and handle. More explosive and far more likely to catch fire.

The fact you aren't told this doesn't mean it isn't true.

The same with batteries. Most protected ones use the ICR chemistry, which is generally far more volatile and more prone to thermal runaway. Most cells that don't have protection circuits use the IMR or INR chemistry. Which while it still contains huge energy, is generally more inherently safer and far less prone to thermal runaway.

Therefore to run the protection circuit for safety, you have to expose yourself to something more dangerous in the first place.

Point being…. Is it really any safer or maybe the less safe option.

Of course you could already know this if you'd done some reading up.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

protection needed when you have 2 or more cells in series, due to reverse charge

Yet almost all battery packs in laptops, power tools etc that use multi cell arrangement in series. Don't use protection circuits per cell…. I don't think even the Tesla packs do and they have over 7000 batteries in some packs!!

QED.

 

[turbodog]

Yet almost all battery packs in laptops, power tools etc that use multi cell arrangement in series. Don't use protection circuits per cell…. I don't think even the Tesla packs do and they have over 7000 batteries in some packs!!

QED.

True, but misleading. They use a complete battery management system... which is a fancy way of saying protected cell.

 

[turbodog]

I only use it on low settings somewhere around 100 to 150 lumens so will it still warn me at these levels. Does it just go really dim that I'll notice.

Depends on the light, but probably so based on my experience with zebralight and malkoff using both types cells.

 

[alpg88]

Yet almost all battery packs in laptops, power tools etc that use multi cell arrangement in series. Don't use protection circuits per cell…. I don't think even the Tesla packs do and they have over 7000 batteries in some packs!!

QED.

View attachment 34019

Pretty much irrelevant as far as our conversation goes, we are talking about individual commercially available cells used by consumers, not factory sealed packs with BMS.

 

[SYZYGY]

I have a zebralight headtorch. I think a h604c. I like it but don't use it as I'm afraid of unprotected cells.
Last night I put a protected cell in it and it worked. Why does zebralight recommend unprotected if protected fits but more importantly is using a protected cell unsafe in it for any reason or damage the head torch.

i believe ZL designed its lights to use unprotected, flat top cells to benefit the consumer.

in exchange for slightly more care on the consumer's part (not storing spare cells in a bin of magnesium shavings or a jar of spare change), the consumer gets:

• a more compact device
• cheaper replacement batteries

for idiots, put the protection everywhere. for competent users, put the protection in the device. imo.

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

True, but misleading. They use a complete battery management system... which is a fancy way of saying protected cell.

Is that protected per bank of cells or individual ones? I'd guess probably a bit of both depending on the actual end device.

That aside, there have been 1000's of multiple cell LED flashlights from 100's of manufacturers. If it was truly as risky as some claim, these wouldn't exist or be allowed to be sold in some countries, but neither is the case.