Q3J 1W vs. TWAK Lux III

shiftd

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[ QUOTE ]
milkyspit said:


NX05 is a great all-around optic, kind of like all weather tires on a car: competent at everything, the best at nothing.




[/ QUOTE ]

wow, talk about a great summary on NX05 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

robstarr-lite

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question: is the die size the same?

thought one major design on the Lux III was the heatsinking
that allowed more current ( thus brighter )

[i have no experience with the III's (yet)]

rob
 

milkyspit

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Robstarr-lite, AFAIK the die size is the same. Think of the LuxIII as the same part redesigned to pull more heat away from the die, and manufactured using their most advanced processes so color, for example, is much more consistent than it was with the 1W part.

While producing light, there's basically a battle between two opposing forces in the LED: increasing amounts of current flow, which tend to generate greater amounts of light; and increasing amounts of heat, which tends to diminish the amount of light produced. It has been the observation of many here on CPF that beyond 1A of current, the 1W part essentially didn't produce any more light, only more heat. The thermal pathways on the 1W part are essentially saturated by the 1A point, kind of like reaching the maximum amount of water that a sponge can hold. With redesigned thermal pathways in the LuxIII, that part can continue to produce increasing amounts of light at 1A and beyond... to my knowledge, nobody at CPF has established yet what the "saturation point" of the LuxIII might be. It definitely has a saturation point, but it is somewhere well above 1A.
 

McGizmo

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Roger asked me to add a data point to this discussion so I will but since it is the result of comparing only three LED's, it is certainly supect as heck and may have no "general population" implications. I have come to feel that the 611 BadBoy is the realistic upper limit for a single 1x123; at least as far as the BadBoy goes. I keep expecting to see a boost circuit surface that can provide more current off a single 123 cell but that hasn't happened yet, to my knowleged and I digress......

Anyway, Since 611 mA is underdriving a Lux III and certainly within acceptable levels, by *our* standards for driving a 1W, I decided to compare a 1W with two Lux III's, all driven by BB611's. I tested the three BB611's with the same test LED and powered by my bench supply and they all drew the same current level from the power supply so I assume that they all are providing roughtly the same current to the LED. So I built 3 PR-T heads using these BB611's and a S rank and T rank Lux III and a R2H 1W. When I tested the Lux output from the same distance, the S rank III might have edged out the R2H with a photo finish. The T rank III scored about 10% higher lux than the other two. As a result of this and other observations, I have a few *working* conclusions that I base my build decisions on:

At current levels above the 611, I will choose to use the Lux III instead of a 1W as I believe more of the power is converted into photons and less in heat. At levels below 611, I feel the Lux III is a viable alternative to the 1W and given its purported superior thermal capabilities, it may be preferable, especially in cases where thermal management may not be optimal.

In real world use of these lights, the variations in tint as well as luinous output have very little bearing on the effectiveness of these lights unless the light is being used at its very limit of effective range. If this is often found to be the case in use, a more powerful tool should be selected in the first place. Backing off on the throttle and going with more efficient levels of drive current as well as the accompaning thermal relief, makes sense to me.

If you are meeting with other flashaholics for some competition or hope to get a high lux score, bring out the hot rail job that is nitrous equipped. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I know it's a weak analogy but how many of you know the upper speed limit of your cars? How many of you take your cars to this limit? This analogy fails but for a significant reason. Your car can be driven at speed levels from 0 up to its max. For the most part, out lights have had "one speed". As we move into varible levels of light output, the rules and considerations of builds will change. I have been using two level lights for a while now and this has been very enlightening to me! I have a couple different mods now that typically are giving me the choice of about 75 mA or 917 mA of current to the LED. Given these two levels, the choice has been obviously for a Lux III. When I have actually used the light with purpose, 9 times out of 10, I have used the 75 mA level.When light is used you can easily have too much light for the task at hand and it can work against you given the ambient levels of light in the surrounds. When I have played with the light, 9 times out of 10, I switched to the 917 mA level; I am a flashaholic after all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

To get back to the subject, my take is that a specific, single output level light can be effective with the choice of a 1W or Lux III, depending on the circumstances and choice of host as well as drive level. I do feel that the Lux III has a greater dynamic range and that it can compete with the 1W at levels that are appropriate for the 1W as well as work at levels where the 1W will fall short of the mark.
 

robstarr-lite

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Yes , thanks don/scott ... another enlightening thread

i had a couple of years manufacturing diodes/Tran sorbs < non led > down in AZ....i remember we increased the die size for energy basically [ used hex shape geometry to prevent die cracking ....providing that diffusion and doping remaining the same on a specific wafer thickness]
[those other factors changed cutoff ( conduction) and leakage]..and package increase allowed higher wattage…..


i to have been wondering what the main factor diff is between the two [to double the lux] if the die size is same.

-must get some III's

rob
 

EvilLithiumMan

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[ QUOTE ]
McGizmo said:

If you are meeting with other flashaholics for some competition or hope to get a high lux score, bring out the hot rail job that is nitrous equipped. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I know it's a weak analogy but how many of you know the upper speed limit of your cars? How many of you take your cars to this limit? This analogy fails but for a significant reason. Your car can be driven at speed levels from 0 up to its max. For the most part, out lights have had "one speed". As we move into varible levels of light output, the rules and considerations of builds will change. I have been using two level lights for a while now and this has been very enlightening to me! I have a couple different mods now that typically are giving me the choice of about 75 mA or 917 mA of current to the LED. Given these two levels, the choice has been obviously for a Lux III. When I have actually used the light with purpose, 9 times out of 10, I have used the 75 mA level.When light is used you can easily have too much light for the task at hand and it can work against you given the ambient levels of light in the surrounds. When I have played with the light, 9 times out of 10, I switched to the 917 mA level; I am a flashaholic after all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

Great post, Don. I just modded a 2D Maglite with a Hotlips and a TX1K. I have been powering it with either 3 sub-C Nicad or 3.7V Li-Ion cells. But just for 'fun', I installed a pair a of slightly used D alkaline cells. At 2.8 volts there is just under 100ma passing through the emitter. But what really surprised me is how usable this feeble amount of illumination is when paired with the Mag's polished reflector. Your post has enforced my observation.
 

H00D

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Great thread..I just got sucked into lights about a week ago when I stumbled into the LED Museum (can't even remember what I was searching for) which led me to Flashlightreviews.com both great sites. Since then I have bought three flashlights (all $13 or less each) and have ordered one of Wayne's FT-3Cs. I'm just at the point where I can appreciate the information given in this thread. Thank you McGizmo for such a beautifully written and informative post..and to all who contributed their experiance.

Stan
 
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