quad-P7 Ellie II w/ Khatod reflectors, beamshots

[LED Zeppelin]

This build is very similar to the quad-P7 w/ McR27XRs, except the heatsink has been revised for use with the Khatod reflectors available from Photonfanatic here.

I'll spare the details of the build and refer to the thread liked above, and concentrate on the results of the beamshots.

I designed the sink face with round pockets for the P7, and reliefs cut on each side of the round pocket for the legs of the Khatod reflector. The reliefs allow the reflector legs to sit at the same level as the slug of the P7.

Testing of an individual P7/Khatod revealed a dim cross at the center of the beam, and some artifacts in general. To avoid combining the crosses of the four P7s, I oriented the LEDs so that none of the dies were aligned.

After testing the completed light, I found the spinning of the dies did eliminate the crosses, and the four LEDs' artifacts washed each other out, but there was a pronounced donut.

I then raised the reflectors by placing the legs not in the seats, but on the high part of the sink by spinning them slightly, roughly 45 degrees. The reflector legs should not contact the P7 leads.

The resulting beam was much better, with almost no donut. The McR27XR version has a slight donut, and the raised Khatod even less. The beam of the McR27XR is a bit more uniform, but only discernable on a white wall.

Khatod has stippled version of the P7 reflector which should give a nice uniform beam. I imagine a quad using one or two stippled reflectors along with the smooth would give good results.

Here are some beamshots at various exposures at ISO200, F4, starting with 1/8 sec, then 1/30 sec, and 1/125 sec.

First up is the Khatod with fully seated reflectors:


Next is the Khatod with raised reflectors:


Last is the McR27XR:


EDIT: I sputtered some smooth Khatods to get a light stipple, and a light/med orange peel.
Here's the light stipple:


And the orange peel:

 

[proline]

Interesting. So raising the reflectors out of the machined seats give better results.

So what is this going to entail as a permanent solution. A redesign of the reflector seats?? Or just replacing the reflectors with the stippled ones??

Thank you

 

[LED Zeppelin]

Proline, either reflector position holds the reflector securely by compression from the lens, and the fit over the LED surround.

A redesign is not necessary, if you only want the raised position of the reflectors, then you can epoxy the LEDs at 90 degrees from pictured. Then the P7 leads will be aligned with the reflector leg pockets, and the reflectors will have only one possible position.

I'm guessing the stippled versions aren't as sensitive to position, and either location would give similar results. I would use the raised position if a mix of stippled and smooth is desired.

 

[cmacclel]

Or you could just lightly stipple the Smooth reflectors. I have great results sputtering the smooth reflectors.

Mac

 

[LED Zeppelin]

Mac, that might be a great solution. If the Khatod stipple is like their other reflectors, it is very heavy and gritty. Good for a flood beam.

A sputtered finish might be the best of both worlds. I've never tried it but am looking forward to your results.

 

[tino_ale]

Just curious... how do you stripple a smooth reflector? Bead blasting or ???

 

[proline]

I'm for no crosses and no donuts. If there is a loss of throw as a result, for myself I'm not concerned. The issues for me are lots of wide bright light, smooth even beams and whatever gets out there in distance works for me.

I know a lot of the guys want throw and more throw, but I have some HID lights that do pretty well for that.

A nice large functional beautifully made, beautiful to behold, get lots of light out in front of you, see everything at once light can be useful at times as well.

Based on the beam shots I've seen of this basic design, that's what I have expectations of...

Thank you gentlemen, extremely nice work

proline

 

[LED Zeppelin]

Just curious... how do you stripple a smooth reflector? Bead blasting or ???

I think it involves careful spraying with a specific clear coat. If you've ever seen Mac's Duracoated lights, you'll know he's good with a spray gun.

I think a light sputter on the smooth reflectors will give great results, but even as is the raised position smooth gives a nice beam.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Just curious... how do you stripple a smooth reflector? Bead blasting or ???

I have used clear hair spray. You can control the amount of sputtering.

Bill

 

[f22shift]

i nticed the same thing when playing with a modified mcr20 w p7. i wonder if any lumens was lost by raising the reflector.
i dont notice holes outdoors so kept mine flush rather than raise.

good research btw

 

[LED Zeppelin]

f22shift, I don't think any lumens are lost as no light is escaping under the reflector.

The amount the reflector is raised by seating on the top surface of the sink is 0.020".

I contacted Mac and he uses Krylon crystal clear acrylic spray, it's non-yellowing.

I'll try sputtering with the Krylon and retest both reflector positions.

 

[donn_]

The idea of mixing reflector textures in the same head is very interesting. I have a Khatod 20, heavy stipple, with a P7 in it, and the beam is perfectly artifact free. It throws a 4' diameter spot at 3' against a white wall. Blend that with some smooth reflectors, and you could get quite a beam, especially in 27mm reflectors.

 

[nailbender]

More fantastic lights. Wow

You are right about the Khatod stippled they are very grainy I used them in a tri R2 and replaced them with smooth because it was a little to floody but no artifacts.

Dave

 

[nanotech17]

should use the Carl Zeiss lens

 

[easilyled]

The beamshots seem to reveal a more defined hotspot with the McR27XRs which in turn indicates greater throw.

Is this something you have observed in reality?

 

[LED Zeppelin]

The beamshots seem to reveal a more defined hotspot with the McR27XRs which in turn indicates greater throw.

Is this something you have observed in reality?

Daniel, there is a tighter spot to the McR27XR beam noticeable on the wall and confirmed by my lightmeter - the Khatods clocked in at 19.9K lux @ 1 m, and the McR27XRs just overloaded the meter (>20K). But in use the difference is not discernable.

 

[ZeissOEM2]

should use the Carl Zeiss lens

I do already have a light with 10" head and zeiss lens. 24V and 500w.


Spot from light w/ zeisslens

Spot from Eagleye 35 w Hid

 

[darkzero]

I contacted Mac and he uses Krylon crystal clear acrylic spray, it's non-yellowing.

I've sputtered hundreds, & then some, of Mag reflectors using the Krylon paint mentioned.

Rustoleum also makes a crystal clear non-yellowing paint that is claimed to be UV resistant. IMO the Rustoleum is a better quality paint & is way more durable than the Krylon over the years. As the Krylon gets old it will crack when the reflector is exposed to shock such as dropping the light. But again, this is after the paint has aged some years but I've really only had this happen to C/D Mags. Probably won't experience this in a small light & I never have yet. I'm sure a factor of this is because the surface it's applied to is smooth & of course we wouldn't be scuffing up the reflectors surface for better adhesion. Or perhaps the uv resistant formula of the Rustoleum really makes a difference? EDIT: n/m, I just pulled out a MagAA reflector that I sputtered years ago using the Krylon, I squeezed the rim with my fingers & the painted cracked.

The Rustoleum comes with a tip that doesn't give as great as results as I get with the Krylon. It sprays too heavy. With the Krylon I use a different tip that gives me a finer mist. I get the best results with this. The Rustoleum doesn't use the common type of spray tips. The tip is female instead of male as spray can commonly are. I use a different tip on the Rustoleum that I modified. I get good results but not as great as I get using the Krylon can. I'm sure this is because of the tip.

 

[LED Zeppelin]

ZeissOEM2, that is one heck of a spot from the 10" head/Zeiss lens. It looks like the tree is going to catch fire!

Will, thanks for the detailed tips. Your reflectors look awesome, even better than a factory reflector!

I found the Rustoleum product earlier tonight and bought a can. They didn't carry Krylon.

I'll try sputtering a set of reflectors, maybe warming the can to get some more pressure for a finer spray.

 

[darkzero]

Will, thanks for the detailed tips. Your reflectors look awesome, even better than a factory reflector!

I found the Rustoleum product earlier tonight and bought a can. They didn't carry Krylon.

I'll try sputtering a set of reflectors, maybe warming the can to get some more pressure for a finer spray.

Around hear, the Krylon isn't carried in most places. I get mine from Walmart. The Rustoleum can be found in most DIY places like Home Depot.

Ambient temperature does affect the results. When it's cold out the results are not as great but that's expected as when painting most anything. However, IMO, it's still the tip that is affecting my results. You can still get good results, I just don't get as good of results as I do using the Krylon. With the Krylon I can simulate, light, medium, heavy OP, & stipple. With the Rustoleum it's harder & I can simulate light OP very well. PM me if you need any tips or you can search some of mine & Lambda's old posts. I learned from Lambda & is the first I've ever heard of who started sputtering.