R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ II

[dano]

Hola peeps, dano here. I figure that there's a lot of questions about this semi-mod. So, to assist, here's a sticky for the ROP, with a caveat--->

Please keep it simple and to-the-point so the newer members can follow along.

Here's a basic page/info: http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=9 to get it started...

-dan

 

[mattyg]

Re: R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ

Here's a thread that has an excellent run down on where to find all the parts for a ROP build.

This thread has some "brick & mortar" sources for parts.

 

[Icebreak]

Re: R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ

Are there any alternative recipes for the ROP?

Yes, the ROP bulb being 6V invites many combinations.

Here's one: My ROP 1400. About $70.00 in parts and host.

Recipe:

The host is a Mag 3C

Deanodize the tailcap with lye drain cleaner, wirebrush dremmel bit to clean it up good then a squirt of contact cleaner and a quick wipe to condition the surface.

Reshape the spring with a pair of vise grip needle nose pliers and another pair of needle nose pliers so that the bottom spirals are small enough to allow the spring to drop all the way into tailcap. Bend the end of the top spiral so that it intersects its diameter. This is to insure contact with the cathod (-) end of the last battery.

6 Intellect IB1400 2/3 A from CheapBatteryPacks.

Sleeve them in 5/8" ID X 7/8" OD acrylic tube from Home Depot. Split the tube. Just load it up after charging individually. Charging as a pack will require a clamp.

Pelican PE3854 Hi "Big D" 6V SLA bulb (Roar of the Pelican) from brightguy or Lumenhound. Install it.

UCL or borofloat lens. Replace the original lens.

PerfectMagReflector LOP or lightly stippled reflector. Replace the original reflector.

A Mag 3C is 1 7/8" longer than a 2C but 3Cs are a very nice form factor.

4.30A and 8.09V at start.
4.28A and 7.93V at 10 seconds.
4.15A and 7.85V at 30 seconds.
4.12A and 7.73V at 1 minute and settled down.

That's 1.28V per cell, 31.8476W and 20.38 minutes calculated runtime.

Some good things about a ROP 1400:

1) NiMh chargers. You might already own one. If your location is other than home and your light needs a charge; it's more likely to find a NiMh charger than a Li-Ion charger
2) Easy build.
3) Safe operation. Safe charging. No fear of fiery outgassing.
4) Flexibility. You can run all the 2C 3X123 and 6cell HotWire solution lamps in it, CA1499, CA1057, WA1111, Pelican Big D 6V SLA, Krypton 5C, etc., etc.
5) Expected small initial sag but after that a nice, non-sagging run. IOWs, a fairly flat output.
6) No battery holder. A length of acrylic tube. So, ZIP added resistance from power source.
7) Very nice white temperature color of beam.

***EDIT***

Someone asked about lumens. Here's a calculation. Not a proven fact:

(7.73V / 6.0V) = 1.28
1.28 ^ 3.3 = 2.25
2.25 x 600 = 1350 bulb lumens
A massive 42.39 lu/W
1350 x .65 = 877 torch lumens

That's if Pelican is factual about 600 lumens. Looks right to me.
That's if the power of 3.3 is correct for rerating. Sounds right to me.
That's if 35% loss is incurred with the reflector and the window. Never have totally agreed with that but apparently an Integrated Sphere was used by CPFers to prove it.

The Big D low is claimed to start out at 290 lumens.
652 bulb lumens rerated
424 out the front

***End Edit***



I'm getting just over 20 minutes before I notice dimming which is about what a SureFire M6 is rated at but there have been many reports of thermal shutdowns at 10 minutes for them. The ROP 1400 does not experience thermal shutdown. The ROP 1400 also puts out more lumens than does the SFM6.

***Edit***

Additional charging information:

A while back I got 3 Vanson Speedy Chargers. They are 4 bay, 4 channel chargers that have adjustable contacts for AAA to D cells. A pack charger would be simpler but these charge the cells individually. This way I can somewhat monitor the health of the cells as well as know they are optimized. For odd cells like these IB 1400s I use spacers.

#10-32 x 1-1/4" machine bolts stuffed into little vinyl tube sections. The vinyl tube is 1/2" OD x 3/8" ID. I top them off with rare earth magnets which are probably not necessary. Really any spacer an inch or so long should work.

Here is a quick and good discussion where Silver Fox and BullseyeBill explain the operation and solve a problem I was having with CB1650s.

Vanson Speedy Charger discussion.

*EDIT*

Charge the batteries before use. Don't rely on the charge they came with. I believe this is true for all NiMh cells.

Here is a scan of a charging spacer apart and together, the re-bent spring, the deanodized tail cap and the vinyl tube with cells in it.

EDIT TO ADD 5C ROP ELITE 4500

I remember that some folks have built successful ROPs using 6 SC RC cells. I recall that josey did it using a Mag 6C long ago. I think it was Whitehot that did it in a Mag 5C by moving the switch forward.

The Elite 4500 SCs are fairly new. I don't know if they are better than the IB4200 SCs. What's nice about the Elite 4500s is their diameter. It's 22.86mm.

I recently bought a Mag5C and some Elite 4500s thinking my measurement prediction might work out just right. It didn't. Even the 22.86mm diameter cells wouldn't recess into a de-anodized tale cap.

Dang.

So I commenced to figure out how to bore out the 5C's tailcap with a hand held drill. I went to Sears and got the closest grinding bit I could find. It was too big so I cut it down by running it against a big rat ******* file. It probably wasn't a rat ******* file but I like to say rat *******.

Quickly I realized that the bit would fill up with Al so I needed to provide lubricant whilst grinding. Some Duralube squirt lube worked and let the grinding bit do its job.

Finally an Elite 4500 would fit into the bored out tailcap.

This ROP 4500 should run about an hour. I've run it through one cycle and am using it in a second cycle.

The 5C format works well for handling and it fits nicely on top of my Maxpedition Operator.

I've used it while navigating through a parking lot at night and it owned the parking lot. I used it last weekend while hiking around on an island in the middle of a river and it lasted well. I like this Hotwire enough that I'll probably buy another Mag 5C before they become unattainable.

 

[EDP]

I have a Maglite 2-C that works just fine with the Pelican Lo bulb and 2-18650's (unprotected). When I put in the Pelican Hi bulb, it fails to light. I know that the bulb is good. When I replace the 18650's with 2-C cells and replace the tail cap spring, the Hi bulb lights up dimly, so I know that electrical continuity is OK. I can light up the same bulb brightly with 6-AA's in a different light.

Anybody have any ideas as to why my 2-C Maglite won't light up the Hi bulb with 18650's?

 

[FILIPPO]

I think that they haven't enough power...ROP HIGH drows at 4.5ah...

 

[Chrontius]

The protection circuit is probably detecting a dead short (the filament).

 

[FILIPPO]

2-18650's (unprotected).

The protection circuit is probably detecting a dead short (the filament).

 

[Deputy T.]

I've finally found the 3c mod I've been looking for. The ROP 1400 seems perfect.

I just have a few questions before I commit:

I visited cheapbatterypacks.com and I didn't see the Intellect IB1400 2/3 A but they had the Elite 1500. Would those work? I wanted to order them in a custom stick configuration. Any suggestions for an affordable charging solution?


Would I benefit from using one of these Heatsinks from download?
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=168722


What's the diameter of the ROP bulbs? I want to find out if my my kaidomain reflector's 8.4mm hole will work or will I have to bore it out?

I thought that I had more question before I started typing, but thats all I could remember...

 

[FILIPPO]

I've finally found the 3c mod I've been looking for. The ROP 1400 seems perfect.

I just have a few questions before I commit:

I visited cheapbatterypacks.com and I didn't see the Intellect IB1400 2/3 A but they had the Elite 1500. Would those work? I wanted to order them in a custom stick configuration. Any suggestions for an affordable charging solution?


Would I benefit from using one of these Heatsinks from download?
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=168722


What's the diameter of the ROP bulbs? I want to find out if my my kaidomain reflector's 8.4mm hole will work or will I have to bore it out?

I thought that I had more question before I started typing, but thats all I could remember...

-I think ELITE 1500 will work fine.
-for charging you can get an universal RC charger from CBP and some charging magnet leads
-ROP bulbs fit also in old FM reflectors with 8.38mm (0.330") hole

 

[Icebreak]

Deputy T. -

Elite 1500s will work. I recall that _js_ has reported failures on both the 1400s and the 1500s. I'll report that out of 28 Intellect 1400s I've had three that won't take a charge. I think the first one that failed was due to abusive use running it down all the way. The other two were on about the 70th cycle. The other 25 are OK. 12 of them have been cycled over 100 times. I recall that LuxLuthor, along with folks that buy his parallel packs using the Elite 1500s, report great success even with HotWires of much greater demand than the ROP lamp.

There's a LEO around this board somewhere that uses his ROP 1400 nightly. The ROP 1400 may be one of the most unpopular HotWires. I think most members opt for KevinL's 2C ROP LE Lithium Edition enjoying the benefit of very little self discharge. I don't think it will perform as well as the ROP 1400. These cells laugh at 5 amps. Initial spike might be 8 or 9 amps, I don't know but that's still much lower than Mike rates them for. I still scratch my head every time I look at those measurements of 1.28V under load at the lamp. Should have been 1.21, maybe 1.23 max but 1.28 is what my DMM read. Very strange. My ROP 1400 is Jade. Looks like something a secretary might have in her car. Trips people out. Some LEOs go fishing at one of the spots I go. They really like it. I think their Streamlights are excellent duty lights but they can't touch my sweet green HotWire. Often I'll run the WA1111 in it. Not nearly the same volume of light but its spot throws better. For a hike through the woods it's great. If I did police work, especially in an urban area, I'd stick with the authoritative presence of the ROP...maybe carry an extra pack.

I don't have download's heat sinks yet but agree with the engineering strategy 100%. I started a thread a while back named Race to Failure that discusses somewhat ROP lamp failures. Heat sinking incandescent lamps is also discussed. Use the on board Google search to find it in this Incandescent forum.

 

[fxstsb]

I think that they haven't enough power...ROP HIGH drows at 4.5ah...

The 18650 is approx a 2.5 a/hr battery

 

[mr.squatch]

I have a Maglite 2-C that works just fine with the Pelican Lo bulb and 2-18650's (unprotected). When I put in the Pelican Hi bulb, it fails to light. I know that the bulb is good. When I replace the 18650's with 2-C cells and replace the tail cap spring, the Hi bulb lights up dimly, so I know that electrical continuity is OK. I can light up the same bulb brightly with 6-AA's in a different light.

Anybody have any ideas as to why my 2-C Maglite won't light up the Hi bulb with 18650's?

I have three rops that run on two 18650s. All run fine on the low bulb but two of them won't fire off on the high. One does. I have a fix that I think is the difference between the two.

Simple test to see if you have the same problem as me. Push the activation button halfway down, to where it'll turn the light on but not click, then release it and it should be back to off. Practice doing this til you can push halfway down, off then full down all in a very short amount of time. "Double clicking" without the first click. Should light off the high bulb, both of mine do. If not, you may have a different problem. If this technique does work for you, try my fix (not mine, stolen from another cpf'r but I use it).

Hard to describe in words, I'll try to take a pic later. Find an o-ring that fits inside the metal end cap of the negative end of the battery (about 3/8-1/2" dia) (can't sit on the wrapper, has to fit inside that, on the metal part of the tailplate). See if it'll fit snugly between the bottom of the 2nd battery and the tailcap. The ideal fit is to snug the o-ring in there. If it's too loose (happens with unprotected cells) you may need a couple small magnets for the positive ends to push the batts back a little. Get to where you snug the o-ring when the tailcap is tight. Then take some copper braid (solder wick) and put it thru the center of the o-ring and start wrapping the o-ring diagonally so it wraps loops around the rubber, back thru the center of the o-ring each round, and wrap til you get back to the copper again. It doesn't need to be continous, as long as you get 4-8 wraps in 360 degrees. Then stand the light up on its bezel, tailcap up. Put the batteries (and magnets) in and put the new copper-ized o-ring on top of the 2nd battery so it stays while you thread on the tailcap. The copper gives you an outstanding ground, and the o-ring gives you some spring to push the batts together, just as the tailcap spring used to do much less efficiently. This is the difference between my working light working and not lighting without a double-click. See if it works for you!

I love my 2c and 3c rops. my 3c fits perfectly with the stock tailcap and two protected 18650's, maybe a little loose if anything but definitely doesn't have the space problems associated with protected cells in a 2c. My favorite every day lights by far. I take em everywhere. Good luck!

g

 

[outersquare]

Built one and this mod sucks, the LO bulb is not any brighter than a xenon 6D mag and it gets hotter.

In fact the DX R2 in a maxfire is brighter than this setup. I have 6AA setup with generic 2000 mah.

The HI bulb i can't even get brighter than the LO. It already has copper braid in both springs.
Waste of $75 or whatever.

 

[mr.squatch]

lol

 

[WildChild]

Built one and this mod sucks, the LO bulb is not any brighter than a xenon 6D mag and it gets hotter.

In fact the DX R2 in a maxfire is brighter than this setup. I have 6AA setup with generic 2000 mah.

The HI bulb i can't even get brighter than the LO. It already has copper braid in both springs.
Waste of $75 or whatever.

The HI bulb is usually much brighter than the LO bulb... Your batteries probably have a high internal resistance and can't handle the current. Get yourself a good set of Eneloop or Duracell Pre-Charged (the made in Japan with the white top). Also, what batteries adapters are you using? The black 3AA to D usually found at DX have a high resistance...

 

[KiwiMark]

I am currently preparing for my first ROP & Hotwire mods. I have 3 of the 2D Maglites (about 10 years old) and 1 4D Maglite. My 4D has a Malkoff drop-in and 4 x 10Ah NiMH D cells (low self discharge) which produces a lot of light and will run at full power for about 8 hours - I like that one a lot!

My 2D Maglites are less impressive - 2 have Night Ize drop-ins and they are supposed to give 50 hours of run-time . . . yawn . . . I can run my Jet-IIIM for 200 hours on a 18650 cell if I really care about that kind or run time! One of my 2D Maglites is running 2 x 18650 cells and the 4 cell bulb out of my 4D - it isn't too bad, not as bright as my Malkoff LED, but quite bright and drawing 0.8A for a 2.5 hour run time. I might keep the 4D bulb Maglite running until the bulb burns out, then maybe go through the spare bulb if the first one lasts OK. But the Night Ize drop-ins are junk and have to go (they barely outdo my L0D).

I have been reading up on the ROP & Hotwire mods and am impressed - it looks like you can take a 2C, 3C, 4C, 5C, 6C, 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D or 6D Maglite and turn it into a VERY bright torch that can outshine over 90% of the best LED torches (though less run time than most). I might keep my eyes open on the internet auction sites for spare Maglite hosts going cheap.

I have ordered some stuff from www.flashlightlens.com, www.lighthound.com, www.kaidomain.com and from fivemega. Hopefully kaidomain doesn't take TOO long to send my stuff out (my D cell Li-ions have been on back order for about 4 weeks, ships in 1-3 days - hmmm OK). I bet my other 3 sources of bits arrive before KD send my stuff!

If I can get a 6D host at a reasonable price I might try my old 4000mAh Ni-Cd D cells with a ROP Hi - I could probably get over 40 minutes run time. I doubt the NiCads would have any trouble supplying 4 amps, they tend to be a good chemistry for supplying current. The total cost wouldn't be too bad since I already have the bulbs on the way from Lighthound and the batteries are just lying around at home. All I need is an Aluminum reflector and a Borafloat lens, neither are all that pricey.

I am looking at making one of my 2D Maglites a ROP Lo and running from 2 x Li-ion D cells with a claimed 5000mAh. Even if I only get 4000mAh I will be able to get over 1 hour at >7V I think.

I have a couple of WA1111 bulbs on order as well as a G4 Bi-pin socket, so I will have a go at making one of my 2D Maglites a hotwire, also with 2 x Li-ion D cells.

If I have enough fun with these I will consider picking up more cheap hosts and trying other variations. The 2D sized Maglites are pretty nice & comfortable in the hand - with a golden shorty spring and a couple of D Li-ion cells they are easy to give enough power to be a hell of a good performer with reasonable run time.

I will continue to use LEDs for pocket sized lights, but no harm in owning a few big incans is there?

I will post updates when I get my new mods up and running.

 

[KiwiMark]

One of my 2D Maglites is running 2 x 18650 cells and the 4 cell bulb out of my 4D - it isn't too bad, not as bright as my Malkoff LED, but quite bright and drawing 0.8A for a 2.5 hour run time. I might keep the 4D bulb Maglite running until the bulb burns out, then maybe go through the spare bulb if the first one lasts OK.

Maybe the batteries can run for more than 2 hours - but the bulb totalled less than half an hour (I think) before it blew. I think the run time is too short and I will abandon this configuration.

 

[supersund]

is it normal for the high big D bulb to last only half an hour? it doesnt seem worth building if i have to replace thet bulb as often as i replace the batteries.

 

[nitesky]

That is a good question from supersund. And it raises a question I had for a while, but was afraid it might get me hounded out of town

Does anyone run a Pelican Hi or Lo on 6v, the lamp spec, instead of 7.2v? It probably comes down to the desired blend of output and runtime. I stuck a Lo lamp in a lantern with a 6v SLA with good non-melting results. And if I ever find another good old all metal lantern I may just try that with the Hi bulb.

But will admit the hotwire option is awesome.

 

[KiwiMark]

is it normal for the high big D bulb to last only half an hour? it doesnt seem worth building if i have to replace thet bulb as often as i replace the batteries.

What voltage are you running, what is your battery configuration? I have read some are using 6 cells (7.2V) and others are using 7 cells (8.4V). Do you have 6AA => 2D or is it 7AA + dummy => 2D?

I have just picked up a 2nd hand 6D which I want to use for a ROP High - I have 6 x D 4000mAh Ni-Cd Cells that I think still work well, they should be able to provide around 7.2V for a decent output. I have already swapped the lens for a glass one and now I just need my bulbs to arrive and my metal reflector too.

So, there must be plenty of crazy flashaholics out there with ROP High & ROP Low bulbs - how long are they lasting and at what voltage is that?