Bloody hell, Jeff, I turn my back on this place for a few days and look at all the mischief you're stirring up! I'm digging through page after page of Clicky material... ok, time for a monster post! (Sorry, everyone.
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That is my opinion as well. If there are only so many that meet the higher standard of the now defunct 120-Cxx, make them and give them to the first ones who pre-ordered. Pick a pre-order date and say that orders made after that will not be getting 120's (170's?).
If that is the case, and there just were not enough extra high efficiency emitters available to go around, then I completely understand Henry's decision.
I hope I'm not spilling any secrets, but I think it only benefits Henry to have it known, since there seems to be so much confusion concerning the reasons for dropping the premium models. Henry told me he is unable to guarantee even a single 120 would have been possible in the first batch, the necessary emitters are that rare. I don't know if emitter supply has changed since the 120Ts were made or if the LEDs used in the 120 Twisties still wouldn't be capable of the 170 burst, but apparently the 120C as a production model in any significant numbers is just not possible at this time; it's more than product line simplification.
Those of you who remember me
How could anyone forget!
I have been watching the Clicky threads with great enthusiasm, calculating the best time to come back.....with a vengeance.....
So the time has finally come... I've been waiting for this day with great trepidation.
and greater enthusiasm than before.
Oh no!
I really hope that's not possible!
Look at Enzo. His heart has been broken. Can a 100lm light manage to mend that broken heart? Only time will tell.
A "little birdy" tells me it might not even get the chance...
My only problem is the insane price increase for "Guaranteed Tint". I mean honestly, a $50 price increase on an LED that costs under $10 total. I can see how this was effective back in 2003 when a T bin Lux 3 was super rare, but now every $50 flashlight is using a Q5 WC.
For the price of the GT upgrade you can buy an entire flashlight! Am I the only one who sees this for what it is?
A great option for the obsessive crazies who have found an excellent tint to be very valuable to them? Unfortunately, I'm an obsessive crazy, so I'm getting hit with the $50 penalty. When the Clicky models were announced, I had to think long and hard about whether I wanted to spend an extra 50 for a higher output model... but there was never any doubt about getting GT, far more valuable to me, for my uses, in my experience.
I'm going to claim that NOBODY here understands why [the burst timer is] there.
I actually do have an idea on that, but it's just my theory so I've refrained from publicly discussing it here since-- oh, hi Jeff, your explanation looks mighty familiar, did you have some help with that?
Yeah, my idea is very similar to the explanation Jeff gave; I think it's a soft hand guiding us toward treating the lights in a sensible way that will prolong their life and runtime, but not entirely forcing us to. People tend to be thoughtless; they turn on a light, see how much it can put out, and leave it there, more is better. This light doesn't allow that, you have to think to get more light, thoughtlessness will automatically drop you back into sensible usage. Is this insulting to the user? Yeah, maybe; we all want to say "but that's not us, we're refined and knowledgeable users." That's true, for the most part, but this light isn't a custom job just for us, it's a production light intended for serious use by all kinds of people, so it's designed to function well with all kinds of people, even (maybe unfortunately) normal people. It's been my thought for a while that burst likely creates so much heat so quickly that banging it into the thermal limit each time probably isn't ideal for the emitter in the long run, though the protection still doing its job of keeping it at a basically safe temperature. So instead, we get a burst that is long enough for most of what we'd use a burst for, and if we want to push into territory that could deteriorate the emitter over time and shorten our runtime unnecessarily, we have to work at it a little. But.... I was only half right:
The selection of parameters has nothing to do with emitter aging or the like. Our exceptional thermal path, thermal limiting and constant power drive take care of those issues very nicely. Utility is the primary parameter.
I see now that my guess about aging was incorrect; thank you for clearing that up, Henry. So, as with the one hour minimum on high limits, it's a matter of guiding the user towards efficient battery usage and the most effective use of the light in most real world situations.
I am not sure how to calculate the added distance covered by the higher output light...
Sure you are! Go back and check my email from about a month and a half ago, I gave you the percentage differences and throw calculations for every model (then) available.
A lot of people here are true flashaholics, and true flashaholics are also true gadget freaks. Gadget freaks love to have as much control as possible over their gadgets, and Clicky (by the sounds of it) is just the right kind of light for such people.
Absolutely true, but the Clicky is not intended to be just the right light for *only* those kinds of people.
I hope all have PAID for their clickies by this time--talk is cheap, REAL cheap! If you wish to support Ra (and I do), walk the walk folks! Lets see those greenbacks.
Since the kind retailers handling the preorders appear quite willing to give a refund at any time, it would seem that paying is also cheap. As I recall, Jeff was one of those who took their time in paying up; judging by the tear he's back on these days, you may not want to force that issue with him...
Not to worry PeterK, it's clear to me paxxus is not familiar with Peter Gransee who had, at one time, affiliation with Henry Schneiker in the development of the Arc4+ when Gransee operated the original Arc company.
That, of all things, is clear to you? Paxxus' familiarity with Gransee, or lack thereof, is not evident in or relevant to his post; he simply comprehended what was being said correctly on the first try. Not cool to take such a nasty and condescending tone with someone to cover up your own mistake. Suck it up, move on, and let everyone forget about it; don't pile abuse on a newer member in hopes he might not be up on his history. He's a good member, show some respect.
PS.: Of course I know who "Peter Gransee" is
See, there we have it.
Hey Guys,
calm down, please.
If this was meant to introduce myself somewhere in this forum I'll do so
the "Peter"
Don't worry about it, you did nothing wrong and were adequately clear.
Welcome to CPF and to the thread that was intended to share the beauty of the best little light east of the Rockies.
What are you trying to say about the west of the rockies? Your comment smacks of soci-- er, disloyalty!
The Clicky is the only flashlight I am looking forward to and I have been holding off buying any other flashlights for 2+ months now.
High five! :thumbsup: We're in the same boat.
But that is kinda my point...how can somebody new to the HDS/RA line be expected to pay upwards of $200 for an EDC light and not know what the emitter is going to be? It's not like that question hasn't been asked in the previous 40 pages. It has. And it has received no reply.
...
This is the only manufacturer that I have ever seen do this...like it's some sort of secret or something.
If we know exactly what the emitter can *do*, who cares what it *is*? LED racism, you might call it. If you must know, the C and Cn will almost certainly use the SSC and Osram Golden Dragon emitters, respectively, because those are what's in the Twisties. And disclosure of exactly what emitter is in a given light is actually a somewhat new thing in the flashlight world, I didn't see much of it before a couple years ago.
The cat IS out of the bag. It's an LED that puts a minimum of 140 measured lumens out the front on burst, 100 lumens out the front for one hour on max, and if you dig through the info you'll find the spec's for every other level. Name another manufacturer that gives as specific and accurate specs for their lights. Just because other manufacturers base their lights on LED models (with planned obsolescence as soon as the next bin of the LED is available) doesn't mean everyone has to follow suit. By not marketing the Clicky as an "SSC P4", "XR-E R2" or "Golden Dragon Plus", HDS/Ra maintains the option of replacing/upgrading the LED at anytime for any reason without having the rev the marketing literature or re-educating the sales channels.
Yes, very nice, what gswitter said.
Umm...Surefire...Pelican...want me to name some more???
Surefire with their "specific and accurate," calibrated outputs?
Good luck with that argument.
Did you mean every other manufacturer? How about you do some naming for me...name me one other manufacturer that DOESN'T disclose the emitter being used...
Well.... Surefire? Pelican? As far as I can recall, SF has only disclosed what emitter is being used on their latest lights. They may have pointed out when the L1 switched to a 3w emitter, but I haven't seen much detail beyond that. Where on the official site does SF tell us that the L1 is now using a cree? Official Pelican site, new lights section, where do they name the emitter used? Your own example companies fail you.
I haven't been around here all that long and maybe I'm naive. But all I really care about is that Henry's lights work -- every time, in every situation. That's what I am paying for.
:twothumbs No naivety there, you've got the right attitude.
Hey! Mine has a K2. I had to pay a hefty sum for it, but it's built as advertised
Well... the second one, at least.
Is it my imagination, but is the locator flash in both the EDC and "competition's" lights about as low as level 1 (0.08lm)? If so, it could be a little brighter so that it can somewhat reflect off a high ceiling in a room where your eyes are dark adapted.
This is definitely a matter of preference. For me, the locator flashes are already too bright to use in the kind of darkness where they'd be useful. Every time I try to give it a chance, I quickly have to turn it back off because I'm being driven nuts by the entire area being lit up by a bounce reflection bright enough to walk around by, for a fraction of a second, every three seconds. But I'm mainly referring to the brighter NT with its less accurately calibrated low, don't remember how bad I found the HDS EDC version to be, except that even that was too bright to leave on. I'd really like to see a locator that's down more around tritium level.
just trust a tradition of quality
This might be the one flashlight company where that is actually good advice. HDS products have earned the faith we have in them.
Ok I'll head back under my rock now.
, just trust a tradition of quality
