Radiometric Power ratios for Grow Lamps??

d183

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Hey all. I'm new here, but I'm designing up a personal grow lamp using LEDs. I read a patent saying that the spectrums of 660, 612, and 470 nm are optimal. They mention a ratio of 24:12:2 of red:eek:range:blue.
I'm not sure if this is in the wattage (since all these wavelengths have different ratiometric power for the input wattage).
Does anyone know the optimal ratio in ratiometric power, or luminus flux?

Thanks all.

Here are the leds I'm going to be using:
ASMT-JH30-ARS01
LZ1-00R205
ASMT-JB31-NMP01
 
Read up on the other threads here on growing plants with LEDs.
The deep reds are the "awesome". The red-orange is a poorer response. But the LEDEngin deep red is the only such emitter on the market and is not esp cheap.

I'm not aware of any NEED to have a red-orange wavelength, but it will use it.

The ratios aren't quite that simple... and there's people who talk about far-red being necessary to trigger flowering. They seem to know what they're talking about.

Deep red is not rightly measured in lumens, because it's not very visible to the human eye and the human eye response is the basis for the lumen scale.
 
and there's people who talk about far-red being necessary to trigger flowering. They seem to know what they're talking about

Since when are dope growers taken with authority?

Again, HPS is the dominant long wavelenth light source in commercial agriculture, and HPS doesn't go much below 600nm. The vast majority of LED lights on the market are also 99% marketing and 1% substance and a front end for a Chinese factory. I've also yet to see any reputed study showing far red LEDs growing something that HPS or standard 630nm can't. Any site that seems to talk seriously about it has something they're selling.

This winter I cultivated about a dozen Hawaiian Corn Plant stalks under about 18watts of standard 630nm red LEDs, and they grew faster than their current location in south window light.

470nm is also a bit high. It will work, but royals (~455nm) get closer to the optimum clorophyll line. The are also much easier on the eyes than 470nm blue while providing the same if not more energy to the plant.
 
Actually after some Googling and visiting the local "hydroponics" store, I've come to respect their methods. Like any field, there are unscrupulous vendors selling junk but there are also people doing detailed analysis and making their results available online.

Flowering means fruiting... so it's potentially relevant for any attempt to grow fruits.

This winter I cultivated about a dozen Hawaiian Corn Plant stalks under about 18watts of standard 630nm red LEDs, and they grew faster than their current location in south window light.

Really? Do you have documentation somewhere on the project?
Was there any other light?? Because 1.5W of LED power per plant... perhaps 300mW of radiant energy... it just doesn't seem plausible to feed a large plant.
 
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I suggest starting out with ~65 watts per square meter of 660 nm red and 10% of that again in ~450 nm blue. This is based on a spreadsheet (link below) I worked out based on DLI (daily light integral... or something) a while back.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlIFMFqXkch9dEdxS3NNd1VuLVJTVEJmSmZ5MzhzZlE&hl=en

Edit: That is 65 watts radiant energy per square meter. Also, the blue wavelength is not specific so long as it is in the neighborhood of 440-460.
 
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Really? Do you have documentation somewhere on the project?

Why should I document what's growing in my living room? I still have reef guys saying you can't grow SPS corals under LEDs, and mine are doing fine.

there are also people doing detailed analysis and making their results available online.

Analysis of 'what?' Anybody can own an ant farm. Again, show me large scale study of specific wavelengths for plant growth that doesn't involve somebody selling a product at the bottom and I'll agree. There are also tons of white papers on the internet by 'Professor Wizards' (ahem), but as soon as you corner them, or ask if they so much own a houseplant, they change the subject and start yacking about in vitro spectral analysis. Have to do something with their degree because it sure doesn't involve growing anything.

Hydroponics stores in my area aren't interested either. They might sell trinket LED lights, but aren't working at high LED energy levels.

Flowering means fruiting... so it's potentially relevant for any attempt to grow fruits.

Agreed, but for the gazillionth time, find a commercial greehouse using artificial light, and 99.99% of them, if they're growing fruiting plants like tomatoes and such, will be using HPS that doesn't have far red. The only broad scale use of far red solid state lighting I've seen is dope growers, and some NASA articles. That leaves Pink Floyd in between, right? Far red has not proven it's case, and LED has an effiency problem compared to HPS at 600nm.

Was there any other light?? Because 1.5W of LED power per plant

There was little ambient room light because it stays pretty darn dark in Michigan during the winter. What I did was set up some power rails with 3watt reds, and illuminate an area about a square meter with about 18watts of 630nm red. Not sure what this '1.5watts per plant' is about, but you might want to re-think it :whistle:. 18watts of 630nm LED in a 3x3 area is actually pretty darn intense, but I was looking at the low growth thresholds of Dracaena fragrans because it's a common slow growing deep shade plant that wasn't responding to blue LEDs.

Anyways, 18watts proved to be more than adequate per square meter, and grew those corn plants at a rate faster than they are now with indirect sun at 20F less ambient or the control plant. That's what really tripped me out - the temp difference. Next test is try this with fruiting plants like tomatoes which have far greater energy requirements and establish how much LED power per square meter is actually required. There are published commercial specs as to how much HPS or halide wattage is required per sq-foot to grow food plants, so I'm curious as to where LEDs finally end up and not interested to the bantering of arm chair scientists. I would happily go to an inner city co-op and build high powered LED fixtures at cost for them if I knew it would help feed people locally, but it's just not there in application (yet) .So basically, if you want to restrict yourself to 660-670nm emitters, you're wasting a lot of time.

I worked out based on DLI (daily light integral... or something) a while back.

Did you factor in thing like chloroplast pigment accumulation blocking long wavelengths, or is this just an anechoic room translation of energy principles? A better explanation is if you've seen a cornfield under 660-670nm light (or in IR in the extreme case), and noticing how it's reflecting a huge percentage of that energy back into the sky. At 600-630nm, less energy is reflected back. So again, there's more to the biology occuring at orange/red than far red which at best is a coincidental trigger.
 
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Did you factor in thing like chloroplast pigment accumulation blocking long wavelengths, or is this just an anechoic room translation of energy principles? A better explanation is if you've seen a cornfield under 660-670nm light (or in IR in the extreme case), and noticing how it's reflecting a huge percentage of that energy back into the sky. At 600-630nm, less energy is reflected back. So again, there's more to the biology occuring at orange/red than far red which at best is a coincidental trigger.

I actually have no idea what you are talking about here, sorry.

The way I figured is I was reading a bunch of stuff about DLI and they were talking about growing in greenhouses in the winter and the amount of supplemental lighting they needed for leafy greens then expanded it to other plants. They had experimented with how much supplemental lighting was required for profitable yeilds. Since they measured their results in moles PAR which includes basically the whole visible spectrum, I took the average plant action sensitivity of PAR (which is all the math in the bulk of the spreadsheet) then multiplied it by the sensetivity of the wavelength I was using (660 nm).

But, I didn't think there was much red reflected. Under the light I built, my plants look black.

Anyway, let me know how your tomatoes turn out. I'd be very interested how much light you find acceptable. I used actually only 4 LEDs where my chart (made after) told me I should have used 6. My peppers didn't grow all that fast and I actually burned them until I put a cover over the light to diffuse it.
 
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