Rotary Tables?

[StrikerDown]

Wondering if anyone knows anything about these R Tables from Grizzly?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/H7527

I have been looking on eBay, but I think Barry has bought all the good stuff!

How large of a table is "too big" for the RF 31, should I find a deal on eBay?

 

[precisionworks]

I think Barry has bought all the good stuff!

All those things were bought a while ago

9" is a nice size for that mill, and there's a Troyke (identical to mine) currently listed. Top is pre-drilled, meaning that it probably will not get a minimum bid of $229.99. After the auction ends, it's worth making an offer ... $125 to $150 ... and see if the seller will work with you.

A top full of holes is nothing to worry about IF you make an auxillary top out of 1" thick aluminum. Drill & tap a radial pattern in the aluminum (for the same size hold down bolts that fit the T-slots on the mill). The aux top is many times easier to work with than the 4 T-slots in the rotary table.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rotary-Table-Troyke-9-R-335-49_W0QQitemZ380105072364QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item380105072364&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

This 8" Yuasa is nice, and worth the $250 buy-it-now price if your budget can stand that. Made in Japan, top quality.
http://cgi.ebay.com/YUASA-8-HORIZONTAL-ROTARY-TABLE-550-108-NICE_W0QQitemZ200312136375QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item200312136375&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318


This 10" Brown & Sharpe is older than time itself (1950's ???) but just as nice as the Troyke. Try a $150 offer & see what he says.
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-dia-Brown-Sharpe-Rotary-Table-Milling-Machine_W0QQitemZ250376620270QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item250376620270&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

 

[StrikerDown]

An aux table sounds like a great idea. (room for errant drill tips!) About how many radials and what would be good spacing of the holes?

Would Heli coil inserts be a good idea? I think I have some from another project that might be the right size.

Speaking of hitting the table... When you need to drill through or machine the sides of parts how do you do it without hitting the table? Spacer up above the surface somehow when clamping it down? Seems like something to avoid!:sick2:

I'm watching those tables on eBay thanks. I'm wondering though about milling long slots/flutes in Flash light bodies & heads, gun barrels etc. would a vertical index table be a better item to have?

Thanks,

Ray

 

[precisionworks]

milling long slots/flutes in Flash light bodies & heads, gun barrels etc

You may want to look at a coffee grinder (spin index) with tailstock. They aren't expensive, and index to one degree.

That's a Suburban Tool Inc. Spin-Master. Seller had it listed as a lathe on eBay, and my $15 bid won the auction. That's about the best snag ever, as it retails for $668:nana:

Would Heli coil inserts be a good idea?

With a 1" thick top, you won't need them until the holes get really worn, which could take quite a while.

About how many radials and what would be good spacing

Four will give you the same clamping pattern as the T-slots in the table, and 1" spacing is about right. Then add holes as needed for different jobs.

how do you do it without hitting the table?

Most people use "scrap parallels", which can be 4 of anything square that are the same dimension. Brazed on carbide tool bits are cheap enough, as are unground HSS square tool blanks. In a pinch, four big hex nuts will work.

 

[Mirage_Man]

That's a Suburban Tool Inc. Spin-Master. Seller had it listed as a lathe on eBay, and my $15 bid won the auction. That's about the best snag ever, as it retails for $668:nana:

Wow! What condition was it in?

 

[precisionworks]

What condition was it in?

It had been lightly used. The mouth, where the collet is inserted, was clean & unscored. I phoned Suburban & talked to a senior engineer in quality control - he'd worked there 20+ years, and knew this index inside & out. He said to set up a tenth reading dial test indicator and observe the TIR, which can be no more than .0005" (same as +/- .00025").

The spindle indicated well under that, and he said it was ready to use. They do offer a refurbish service on that index, about $200 IIRC.

The only missing part was the index pin, the one with the black knurled head at the 0 position in the photo. Made one from a short piece of .125" W1 drill rod, turned a knurled aluminum head, and been using it ever since. The way I figure it, that missing pin must have been worth the $653 that I didn't have to pay:nana:

http://www.subtool.com/st/SM5C.shtml

 

[StrikerDown]

You may want to look at a coffee grinder (spin index) with tailstock. They aren't expensive, and index to one degree.

That's a Suburban Tool Inc. Spin-Master. Seller had it listed as a lathe on eBay, and my $15 bid won the auction. That's about the best snag ever, as it retails for $668:nana:

With a 1" thick top, you won't need them until the holes get really worn, which could take quite a while.

Four will give you the same clamping pattern as the T-slots in the table, and 1" spacing is about right. Then add holes as needed for different jobs.

Most people use "scrap parallels", which can be 4 of anything square that are the same dimension. Brazed on carbide tool bits are cheap enough, as are unground HSS square tool blanks. In a pinch, four big hex nuts will work.

$668.00, Not expensive

Thank god for eBay eh!

Are the cheap Chinese models adequate? They are still more than what you paid. You stole that sucker!

Nu BE Question: is the crank handle like a draw bar to tighten the collets?

 

[precisionworks]

Are the cheap Chinese models adequate?

Some are probably very good, some are awful, and most are in between the extremes. The only way to tell is to indicate the spindle with a tenth reading dial test.

The reason that the Suburban maintains accuracy over a long period of time is that the spindle is lathe turned slightly over size, hardened, then ground to final dimension. The bore is reamed to final dimension, and the spindle-to-bore fit feels like a piston in a cylinder.

If you don't want to spend a lot of time looking, order this one:

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=1464

Notice that the photo is the same one that Suburban shows on their website ...
which means that someone is making a really close copy. It also has a hardened & ground spindle, so it should last. If you buy that one, check it with a dial test indicator & exchange it for another if the run out is too great.

is the crank handle like a draw bar to tighten the collets?

It serves two functions, one of which is to pull the 5C collet into the taper, to tighten the collet onto a part. It also allows spinning a part, which is used when OD grinding is done. The spin index is placed on the surface grinder (with the part projecting from the collet), the wheel is lowered to contact the part, and the handle is turned to spin the part against the wheel. I've used it to make special form twist drills, where the last 1/2" is ground to a smaller diameter. It's also handy when you need a tap drill with a special diameter, which often happens to me when using thread forming taps.

 

[StrikerDown]

Barry,

I think I will probably Get the one from Penn Tool, thanks. This looks like it will work with a barrel for cutting flutes assuming I can find the correct size collet. But it brings up another dumb question (of course). Barrels are long, is there a steady rest type fixture for support?

And how do you hold something larger than a collet? like a 2 D maglight body and head. I really want to start cutting on an old Maglight for practice. The worn spots could be turned down to fresh alum and look brand new and custom. Of course I need to get the lathe before I can turn some of the stuff on the tubes but I should be able to start with cutting flutes in the head and bodies if I can fogure out how to hold them?

I just found the http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=54273 thread to start reading so I'm sure lots of questions will be answered there.

 

[StrikerDown]

It also allows spinning a part, which is used when OD grinding is done. The spin index is placed on the surface grinder (with the part projecting from the collet), the wheel is lowered to contact the part, and the handle is turned to spin the part against the wheel. I've used it to make special form twist drills, where the last 1/2" is ground to a smaller diameter. It's also handy when you need a tap drill with a special diameter, which often happens to me when using thread forming taps.

Can this be used on the mill also to cut around the circumference?

 

[Mirage_Man]

I bought the cheapy import spin indexer from Enco. It suits me fine for the work I'll be doing until I can afford a nice super spacer or rotary table with chuck.

 

[wquiles]

I bought the cheapy import spin indexer from Enco. It suits me fine for the work I'll be doing until I can afford a nice super spacer or rotary table with chuck.

[/IMG]

Brian - for the work we do, it is definitely good enough

I do have a 6" rotary table that I got from Grizzly, but I need to buy a chuck for it - then it will be super useful

Will

 

[StrikerDown]

Will,

Can you use the chuck off the 7 X 10 and buy a better chuck for the lathe?

Which rotary did you get?

 

[precisionworks]

Barrels are long, is there a steady rest type fixture for support?

What you'll end up with are a number of steady rests between the spin index and the tailstock support.

As long as the muzzle end is 1" diameter or less, and the flutes stop something short of the muzzle, that end can go in the 5C collet. The tailstock will support the chamber end, and the height of the tailstock will need to be adjusted so that the top of the barrel is parallel to the bed of the mill (if you want the flutes to be the same depth from end to end).

You'll need to make support blocks (called jacks) that are placed under the barrel. Aluminum can work well for making the jacks. Each jack will have a channel milled into it that is a mirror image of the part of the barrel that it supports, and a tapered barrel means a number of tapered channel jacks. You'll want to leave flanges or feet on the table side of each jack to make them easy to clamp to the table.

If you can support as much of the bottom of the barrel as possible, the end mill will flute with little or no chatter. If chatter occurs, provide more jack support, or reduce speed, feed, or depth of cut.

how do you hold something larger than a collet

For work above 1" diameter, the easiest solution is a rotary table, mounted in the vertical position, with a lathe chuck attached. Again, you'll need to make or buy a tailstock to support the outboard end. If you buy a chuck with two-piece top jaws, you can bore a number of aluminum 'soft jaws' to fit C-cell, D-cell, Surefire, etc.

Can this be used on the mill also to cut around the circumference?

Any type of circumferential cuts are best made on the lathe, because the lathe has a massive headstock that houses large bearings that support a sturdy spindle. Contrast that to the spin index, and it's like comparing a cruise ship to a canoe ... very little mass to support the piece being machined. The reason that a spin index is primarily a grinder fixture is that grinding forces are small & linear, compared to milling forces that are larger & rotational.

 

[wquiles]

Wondering if anyone knows anything about these R Tables from Grizzly?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/H7527

I have been looking on eBay, but I think Barry has bought all the good stuff!

How large of a table is "too big" for the RF 31, should I find a deal on eBay?

I am pretty sure that is the same kit that I got from Grizzly about a year ago or so. I have not used it much since my X2 mini-mill did not have much room for it, but I am hoping to use it more with my knee mill.

Will

 

[Mirage_Man]

I will be getting at least an 8" if not a 10" table. I want to be able to put a D mag body through the hole in whatever chuck I end up using on it. That means at least a 6" chuck. An 8" chuck would offer a 2" hole which could certainly come in handy too.

 

[wquiles]

Will,

Can you use the chuck off the 7 X 10 and buy a better chuck for the lathe?

Which rotary did you get?

This one is the one I have:
http://grizzly.com/products/6-Rotary-Table-w-Div-Plates/H7527

I no longer have the 7x, nor the 8x lathe - just the PM12x36. The chuck on my lathe PM12x36 is like $800-900 right now, so I will probably keep it on my lathe and buy something cheaper for the rotary table

That being said, with the new-to-me knee mill, the 6" rotary table kit from Grizzly is now too small for me, so I will try to sell it and get an 8" or 10" instead :devil:

Will

 

[StrikerDown]

Will, My bad, I was confusing you with Will... You're not him!

The other Will was having run out issues with his mini lathe chuck.

I might be interested in the Kit. I too have been lusting on eBay, darn tooling is wearing out my wallet, won't be getting a lathe if I am not careful.

Edit: I have to wait to see if an offer I have in on a Troyke is accepted or not before I can consider your kit though. PM me with the asking price when you get a chance.

Ray

 

[wquiles]

I might be interested in the Kit. I too have been lusting on eBay, darn tooling is wearing out my wallet, won't be getting a lathe if I am not careful.

Edit: I have to wait to see if an offer I have in on a Troyke is accepted or not before I can consider your kit though. PM me with the asking price when you get a chance.

Ray

Ray - no worries. The 6" kit that I have is too small for me, and I used it only once, so it is still brand new. I will sell it for 1/2 of what I paid (1/2 of the price Grizzly lists in the link on post #1), plus actual shipping to you. Let me know

Will

 

[gadget_lover]

If Ray does not want it, please ping me. For my uses it might be just right.


Daniel