Rugged affordable survival knife?

[Hellbore]

Hi all, I have been researching knives lately, watching way too much Survivorman and Man vs. Wild, and I really want to get a nice survival knife!

I have a couple decent stainless knives already, but I really would like to get something in a higher-carbon steel this time around. I especially would like a knife that will really hold an edge well!

I have been drooling over the Fallkniven F1 with the VG-10 laminate blade, and even more the 3G blades, which are even more expensive. Also drooled over the Cold Steel Master Hunter that they had in my local Bass Pro Shops. However, I'm not a huge fan of the style of handles and tangs these knives use. I really like a full-tang handle where you can see the tang, with side panels.

Right now though, since I'm just getting interested in survival and bushcraft topics, and I have not taken any classes or anything yet, and I'm learning knife sharpening too, I would like a knife with a less exotic, easier to sharpen blade, and also a knife I'm not as worried about beating up a little.

I also looked at the Becker "campanion", but what a beast... fully 1/4" thick blade? Too thick and heavy for my taste. Awesome knife, maybe I'll get one later, but not quite what I"m looking for now, I want something a bit sleeker that will be a better slicer. It's tempting though.

Here is what I really want, let's see if you can direct me to such a knife:

Blade of 1095 high-carbon steel or D2, about a 4" long blade, plain blade (NO serrations), drop point, around 3/16" thickness, full tang handle, sandwich-style handle with full tang + side panels. Holster that can be worn in the horizontal position (like Bear Grylls wears his).

The official Bear Grylls knife looks pretty cool, but at $700... no thanks! Also, before anyone says anything, YES, I know that in the context of survival, the things Bear Grylls does are RIDICULOUS! Instead of "how to survive" they should call it "how to get yourself killed as quickly as possible in a survival situation". The average person simply could not do the things he does without getting killed or mortally wounded. In fact I question whether he can do them I suspect some of it is well-choriographed and set up in advance... But I digress... Point is, I like his knife and it's making me want to buy a survival knife, and the show is entertaining

Anyway... back on topic... So far the closest knife I have seen to what I really want is the RAT RC-4, in fact this knife is almost exactly what I want:
http://www.knifeworks.com/ratcutlerymodel4deserttanbladegreenmicartahandleplainedge.aspx

However, I am hoping that a similar but less expensive knife exists. Also, I'm not a big fan of the powdercoated blade. Maybe I'm just being picky on that point. I just noticed though that the sheath it comes with supports horizontal carry. Maybe I will just buy this knife.

Are there any really similar knives that are less expensive and have a bare, uncoated blade?

I really appreciate any suggestions!

Some day I'll get a Fallkniven H1 3G with SGPS but not until I actually start hunting and need a knife to field-dress an animal

 

[RAGE CAGE]

Mora's are awesome blades for around $10.00- Skandi steel- can be had in High Carbon- red handle, Stainless- Blue handle- tri laminate, etc.- these are great bushcraft blades and are an excellent way to learn sharpening skills- Cody Lundin -Dual Survivor guy- wears a wooden handled mora around his neck on the discovery channnel show. The ONLY drawback IMHO on Moras is that they are NOT full tang- but they are a great value and the steel is excellent. I just picked up a RAT-3- USA made of 1095 with the Kydex Sheath and Techlock- but I would stack any of my Moras against it for most any task.


check out bushcraftusa.com for some sage bush blade advice.

 

[Dnva]

I just received my ESEE (RAT) HEST today and all I have to say is WOW. This thing is a beast. It makes all my Spydies look like little girls.

This is a little smaller then the RC-4 but as a few nice touches that make it a great survival style knife for me. In my opinion, these knives are a real deal. The powder coating is more like a light Rino liner on the blade. Looks extremely durable.

 

[Hellbore]

Thanks for the replies, I knew CPF would know something I'll check out that bushcraft forum too.

Where can I get Moras for a good price? I thought about starting with one, I didn't have much luck finding a source.

The tang on the Moras just scares me though, I saw some pics where someone took the handle off, and the tang is like 1/4" wide or less! The guy who took the pics said he was amazed the Moras hold up and don't just break, I felt the same way. But on the other hand, I have seen lots of inexpensive knives that are built this way, and I only hear good things about Moras.

If I did get a Mora, the models with Triflex blades interest me Can you really get a true laminated-blade Mora? Show me where if so, that would be interesting!

Still really tempted on the RAT knives though. The HEST worried me a little, there is a big square chunk of metal cut out of the spine of the blade, I guess that's the bottle opener? Doesn't that really weaken the blade for tasks like baton-splitting wood?

 

[RAGE CAGE]

a wealth of knowledge on all types of Moras

http://www.ragweedforge.com/SwedishKnifeCatalog.html


I have battoned small oak limbs with moras- the tangs are well secured.
Best user/learner blade out there for the $.

http://www.bensbackwoods.com/servlet/Detail?no=91

http://www.bensbackwoods.com/servlet/Detail?no=91

 

[NCT1]

I would look at a kabar. They are proven and pretty affordable.

 

[mellowman]

Still really tempted on the RAT knives though. The HEST worried me a little, there is a big square chunk of metal cut out of the spine of the blade, I guess that's the bottle opener? Doesn't that really weaken the blade for tasks like baton-splitting wood?

The HEST is a thick knife, 1095 metal. If anyone's been able to break it, especially just batoning wood, there would be pics and it's been out for over a year now. It also has a lifetime no questions asked policy and given ESEE/RAT is a company trying to make a profit, apparently they don't believe the bottle opener will be an issue otherwise they'd be losing money on warranties.

Edit: plus don't forget about the small space in the handle for additional small survial gear, like some matches or small flint and fishing line or snare wire.

 

[wyager]

Kabars are great. The factory edge is awesome. I have this one:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G8ZR5S/?tag=cpf0b6-20
(Is it alright to post product links just to show which one I have?)

I'm thinking of selling it, I don't use the thing enough, but through a few trips and stuff it's held a great edge the whole time and is still able to shave the hair off my arm. A light, painless tap will easily draw blood from my knee. It's really pretty amazing, you can trust these things to go through anything.

You DO NOT want to buy one of those cheap "survival" knives with the hollow hilt for storing stuff. They usually use awful steel, and the blade will often break off the hilt after a while of use. Get a real knife if you will be using it for anything like camping or survival.

 

[carrot]

If you go with a carbon blade, some kind of coating is the way to go. It's obviously not necessary, but it does help keep the blade from tarnishing or rusting.

I had an Ontario RAT-3, from before the RAT/Ontario split, and it was a good knife. However, it was thicker and shorter than I like to have in a woods knife. I think I would really dig the RC4 or 5 if I had one, but right now my "survival knife" of choice is the Fallkniven S1 or the much cheaper Buck 119. I am also quite happy to use the Mora Bushcraft daily while on the trails and around camp, so you can see there's a whole load of great options at all sorts of price ranges. Mora knives themselves are great, but the sheaths are terrible: once you find a pattern that you like, get a real sheath (leather or Kydex) made for it. ($20+)

Next trip I do will probably be with just a Mora and the RAT/ESEE Izula I ordered recently.

 

[Darvis]

My vote is for anything Bark River. I think the Gunny is about perfect, but that's me. Many prefer the larger Bravo 1. Have a look at the line up, they're great semi custom knives and very affordable.

 

[funkymonkey1111]

a wealth of knowledge on all types of Moras

http://www.ragweedforge.com/SwedishKnifeCatalog.html


I have battoned small oak limbs with moras- the tangs are well secured.
Best user/learner blade out there for the $.

http://www.bensbackwoods.com/servlet/Detail?no=91

i've got a mora and love it

http://www.bensbackwoods.com/servlet/Detail?no=91

 

[Monocrom]

Having owned a couple of custom Bob Dozier knives, I would never recommend D2 as a blade steel on a survival knife. D2 is a tool steel. Although classed as a carbon steel in America, in some European countries it is classified as a stainless steel; due to its make up.

However, a survival knife MUST be something you can re-sharpen in the field. And while that is something you can do with 1095, you're not pulling that off with D2. Works well on a hunting knife. Bad choice on a survival knife. Check out the line of knives offered by TOPS. They have an incredible assortment of knives made from 1095. Many of them full tang.

 

[fireboltr]

I beat the hell out of my knives when "practicing" survival....

The Only knives I have had trully hold up and take the abuse I put them through are ANYTHING by Bark River Knife and Tool.

I would suggest the Aurora as i can vouch for the toughness of the knife...
Last camping trip I spent a good long time batoning through some seasoned almond full of knots, then did some small "relaxing" carving, then prepaired breakfast for us. The knife held an awsome edge through all of this, it was still shaving sharp! I mean dont get me wrong the edge was a little rough but would still shave.
One of the best part of Bark River knives is the the after sale service, thier warantee is right there with Surefire. You break it they fix/replace it.

check out Derrick @ Knives Ship Free lots of handle materials to choose from. Everything from pretty to hard wear. I spent a little under $200 on the Aurora and love it.... In my opinion it is dang near the perfect size/shape for all around use, the handle is second to NONE.

I collect, use the heck out of, and make knives all that I have bothered spending my money on anymore is Bark River knives.... I now own 9.

P.S. A-2 tool steel is still one of the best for a "bushcraft knife" and the heat treat they put on these things combined with the convex edge is almost heaven. They also use some stainless and cpm3v.... I have tried 1095 and alot of others and they dont quite make it for an actual knife you plan on cutting with (but is top dog for impact) d2 is hard as heck and a pain in the rear to sharpen in the field. A-2 being a tool steel takes a wicked edge, last a good while, and combined with the thin convex profile cuts like a deamon. convex edges are also the easiest to maintain in the field.


P.P.S. Let me put it this way... Out of the literally hundreds of knives I have owned and abused throughout the years from fle-market grade to 500$+ customs the Bark River knives are the ONLY ones I would depend my life on. I would trust my Little Creek before my Kabars, Moras, or other multitude of custom and production knives and the Little Creek is tiny! I have a Gunny as previously suggested and it is a great all around blade, but I prefer the Aurora in the field. I wouldnt go with any coating on a carbon steel knife as a natural patina from use is a beautiful thing, not to mention coatings increase drag. Ohhhh before I forget Bark River knives are known as semi-custom, or semi-production wichever way you would like to look at it. All of the grinding and polishing is done by skilled US craftsman as they dont make automated machines that can makea full convex ground/edge knife.


Sorry if I sound a little pushy but I have literally had a Bark River save my A$$ in a very bad situation where someone in the group could have been seriously injured/killed where I have had other knives fail.

 

[leukos]

a wealth of knowledge on all types of Moras

http://www.ragweedforge.com/SwedishKnifeCatalog.html


I have battoned small oak limbs with moras- the tangs are well secured.
Best user/learner blade out there for the $.

http://www.bensbackwoods.com/servlet/Detail?no=91

http://www.bensbackwoods.com/servlet/Detail?no=91

+3 on starting with a Mora. I would recommend #911 or #946 if you have medium sized hands. But the tool is only as good as your skill and knowledge.

 

[Hellbore]

Not to change the topic, but I am terrible at knife sharpening. I really need to learn. It seems no matter how hard I try, I never do a very good job though. I can get my knives somewhat sharp, but not razor-sharp. It will cut the hair on my arms, so maybe I'm being too picky, but I can't reproduce the "new knife" sharpness by hand.

Any suggestions on how to solve this problem? I need to be able to sharpen my knife, whatever knife I get. I wonder if there are any classes on knife sharpening... reading about it and trying it only seems to get me so far, maybe some feedback and hands-on training would help. Why didn't they teach us this in Boy Scouts? LOL...

Also, shouldn't one keep a sharpening stone with their survival gear? What's a good sharpening stone for taking with you into the field?

Another thing I wanted to mention:

I own this hunting knife:
http://www.wellingtonsurplus.com.au...61/MUELA+MILITARY+TACTICAL+KNIFE+-+MODEL+5161

My Dad bought it for something like $20 from some catalogue a long time ago, and I just recently found it with my camping gear. He told me it was a really cheap knife, so I assumed it was junk, and it has been packed away for years, not getting any use. The sheath is terrible but maybe I can get some use out of this knife.

I'm not sure what kind of steel the blade is, but it says "stainless".

Does anyone know if this is a decent knife? I have been practicing sharpening techniques on this blade, as it was quite dull. I can get it sharp enough to cut the hairs on my arm, so that's not too bad, but I'm still learning. Just wondering if anyone knows anything about this knife.

Edit: I think I found info about this knife, it's supposedly 440C Stainless. Any good for a survival knife?
It would be handy if it turned out I could use a knife I already have, and buy a more expensive knife later when I'm more experienced with knife care and use...
The knife I have is the 3rd up from the bottom in this pic.

Edit again: I found more info on this knife online, people are saying the knife only has about 2 inches worth of tang... that doesn't sound encouraging. The handle is made of zinc and plastic. Apparently this is one of Muela's lower-end knives. Still, I can at least practice sharpening and using it hehe...

 

[Darvis]

Just a note, the Bark River Bravo 1 does come in stainless and Barkies are primarily convex ground which means you can carry some sandpaper or small strop in the field and always have a nice sharp knife.

For me, sharpening a flat grind was always a challenge, I could never get the stone thing or angles right, but the stropping action used to sharpen a convex grind just seemed very natural and now all my knives are convex ground (I really only like the BRKT's anymore) I'm not saying the Barkies are the best by any means, or suggesting you only consider them as a survival knife... there are some great ones out there like the RAT knives, Falkniven, etc.; but as you research sharpening techniques, have a look at the many videos online that deal with convex grinds, it's interesting stuff and ahs made all the difference for me personally.

 

[Hellbore]

Well this Muela knife I have here has a "reverse curve hollow grind" whatever that means


Oh man... That Bark River Bravo-1 is a gorgeous knife. I don't know if I could spend over $200 on a knife but if I did... I really like that knife a lot.

I really like the Gunny as well, it's very similar but cheaper and just a tad smaller. Very nice...

 

[TriChrome]

Hi all, I have been researching knives lately, watching way too much Survivorman and Man vs. Wild, and I really want to get a nice survival knife!

I love watching all those survival shows as well, and lately I've been seeing a lot of machetes being used for things like building a shelter and getting fire wood to cook/heat/purify water.

Although I think a machete is overkill (since it's not much use for finer tasks), a larger (and heavier) fixed blade knife with a good choil (so you can choke up on the blade and get more control for smaller tasks) is the way to go for a survival knife in my opinion.

All of these smaller fixed blade knives mentioned in this thread so far simply don't have the weight behind them to cut larger pieces of wood easily, and if you've ever batoned a smaller knife like the Mora/Izula/RC-3 through those same pieces of wood you know it takes tons more effort (and calories).

 

[mellowman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind for types of grinds.

Youtube is your friend in terms of learning different sharpening methods. My recommendation is look at Bluntruth4u's sharpening method. He uses a gatco system for hallow, sabre type grinds. There are similar sharpeners to the gatco that are a little cheaper, such as DMT. For convex grind sandpaper and a strop is all that is needed but if you've been having problems you'll probably still have problems with convex grinds.

Bluntruth4u also went through a convex grind phase converting his knives (he has a lot and does a lot of reviews on them) when appropriate to this grind. However when he did the Appalachian Trail a couple months ago what knives did he bring? Just one, an Izula which he converted from convex back to hallow (though I think sabre is more accurate) grind. I think he did this to go lighter in terms of field sharpening. Instead of bringing a strop, he just used a gerber pocket sharpener (you can get these for $3-4).

Anyway, you can search youtube for survival knife reviews and there are other forums dedicated to this topic. From what I've read and seen, those with experience tend to use smaller knives than you would think.

Also, from what I've seen all 1095 knives have some coating to resist corrosion.

@wyager, the HEST isn't a cheap knife. It's about 1.5x your kabar. The handle scales are removable and the space is between the scales. Knife is full tang but skeletalized.

 

[RAGE CAGE]

I love watching all those survival shows as well, and lately I've been seeing a lot of machetes being used for things like building a shelter and getting fire wood to cook/heat/purify water.

Although I think a machete is overkill (since it's not much use for finer tasks), a larger (and heavier) fixed blade knife with a good choil (so you can choke up on the blade and get more control for smaller tasks) is the way to go for a survival knife in my opinion.

All of these smaller fixed blade knives mentioned in this thread so far simply don't have the weight behind them to cut larger pieces of wood easily, and if you've ever batoned a smaller knife like the Mora/Izula/RC-3 through those same pieces of wood you know it takes tons more effort (and calories).

All excellent points- especially the batoning with a short/light weight blade- the length is more problematic than the weight- more calories burned- but a counterpoint would be you are burning more calories carrying the heavier fixed blade while hiking- this too will burn extra calories- gues it boils down to whatever you are comfortable with.