Safe & Responsible MINIMUM AGE to drive a vehicle?

[Samuel]

Hey everyone... I had the unfortunate experience of watching a beautiful 17 year old girl's life fade out in front of my very own eyes last week. I work overnight security and was one of the first people to respond as the accident happened right next to my place of work. She was coming down an off ramp speeding and lost control of her Chevy SUV... She smashed into a palm tree completely crushing the whole drivers side of the truck. It was a sight that I will never forget...

This brings me to my question... What age do you believe should be the MINIMUM AGE to safely & responsibly drive a vehicle? I know each state is different, but I would like to see what everyone's answer is. Myself, I think 17 is NOT mature enough with confirmation being what I witnessed first hand...........

My answer is 19 :thumbsup:

Just curious, how do you "KNOW" that her age was the decisive factor or even a major factor in the accident? What if she had been 25? Do you know if there were other circumstances that may have contributed or were to blame? E.g. Do we know if she was under the influence of a drug? What if she was trying to evade another driver/vehicle from a road rage incident? What if she were trying to get somewhere more quickly due to an emergency? What if a critical component of the vehicle failed? What if a drunk driver had bumped her off the road? ETC...

Personally, I am for raising the age limits for quite a few things. I also believe that penalties for criminal acts and/or criminally negligent screw ups (including drunk driving) are neither swift enough nor severe enough.

 

[NeonLights]

Growing up on a farm out in the country I was driving vehicles on the road at age 13, but didn't get my license until I was 16. Had a serious accident when I was 16, I was reading a map while driving, and rolled my car into a ditch, walked away with minimal injuries though. It was basically a poor judgement call on my part, due in part to the factors Stereodude mentioned, a lack of maturity, education, and training.

I've had a lot of teenagers work for and with me over the years, and seen a lot of different levels of maturity, that had little to do with whether they were 14 or 19 (or 25 for that matter). I'm definitely in favor of more and better training, at or above the level of many European countries. I don't think the age should necessarily be increased though, as there isn't a magic age where the majority of teenagers or young adults magically become mature and capable enough to drive. I do like the steps that Ohio has taken the last few years with their graduated licensing program. When I turned 16, all I needed was 8 hours of instruction in-car, about the same in a classroom, and if I passed the test I had a full license.

Now in Ohio, at age 15 1/2 a teenager can get a temporary permit which allows them to drive until they are 16 as long as they have a parent or guardian along with them, no solo driving. At age 16 they get a probationary license (after they have 50 hours of driving experience with a parent, including 10 hours of night driving) and can drive solo, but not with more than one passenger who is not a family member, they are also not allowed to drive between midnight and 6am.

I feel comfortable with these new regulations for my two children when they start driving in 10 years or so, but they will also be receiving other types of driver training from me and other schools over and above what is required by law.

 

[Shreknow91]

Growing up on a farm out in the country I was driving vehicles on the road at age 13, but didn't get my license until I was 16. Had a serious accident when I was 16, I was reading a map while driving, and rolled my car into a ditch, walked away with minimal injuries though. It was basically a poor judgement call on my part, due in part to the factors Stereodude mentioned, a lack of maturity, education, and training.

I've had a lot of teenagers work for and with me over the years, and seen a lot of different levels of maturity, that had little to do with whether they were 14 or 19 (or 25 for that matter). I'm definitely in favor of more and better training, at or above the level of many European countries. I don't think the age should necessarily be increased though, as there isn't a magic age where the majority of teenagers or young adults magically become mature and capable enough to drive. I do like the steps that Ohio has taken the last few years with their graduated licensing program. When I turned 16, all I needed was 8 hours of instruction in-car, about the same in a classroom, and if I passed the test I had a full license.

Now in Ohio, at age 15 1/2 a teenager can get a temporary permit which allows them to drive until they are 16 as long as they have a parent or guardian along with them, no solo driving. At age 16 they get a probationary license (after they have 50 hours of driving experience with a parent, including 10 hours of night driving) and can drive solo, but not with more than one passenger who is not a family member, they are also not allowed to drive between midnight and 6am.

I feel comfortable with these new regulations for my two children when they start driving in 10 years or so, but they will also be receiving other types of driver training from me and other schools over and above what is required by law.

Its kinda like that here in NC

At the age of 14 1/2 you can take the driver's ed class and at 15yo you get a permit, for the first 6 months you can only drive with a parent or gaurdian between 5am and 9pm, after six months, you can drive anytime with a parent or gaurdian , after a year of having your permit, you can get your license, for the first 6 months you can only drive between 5am and 9pmand you can only have family or one non family member under 21, after the six months, there are no restrictions.


Now after that... I got my license in the middle of march of this year, and I would like to think that I am a good driver for my age (16), my mother said I am the best driver out of the 3 kids (1 sister, 21yo, and 1 brother, 19yo)

And my teacher said she trust me more behind the wheel than her 26yo son


I am a very defensive driver and am always aware of every car around me and very rarley have the radio on, and most of the time turn my cell phone off :thumbsup:

 

[baterija]

First, it sounds like you had a pretty traumatic experience. I wouldn't be surprised if you were feeling shocked, and angry about a promising young life being ended.

I actually like what the Michigan has done. They have a graduated licensing program for those under 18 that puts a little more emphasis on preparation. It limits driving priviledges. The Secretary of State notifies the parent or legal guardian who approved them getting a license of any moving violations.

All newly issued licenses, regardless of age, are also probationary. They can be suspended sooner than a non-probationary license. Probation lasts at least 3 years, and requires 10 months without a moving violationto get a full license. After completing probation there is a 2 year long post probation, where violations are monitored more closely, that can again lead to license suspension.

In total they address some of the bad decision making made by the less mature teenagers, and the dangerous inexperience common to all new drivers. Could they be improved, probably. It's still better than when I was a teenager though, without limiting those who are more than capable.

Two examples of those less chronologically advanced (18 and 19 years) that I would say have displayed plenty of maturity for driving:
PFC Daniel McClenney
PFC Monica Brown
Both have been awarded the Silver Star for actions in Afghanistan.

 

[Showolf]

Just curious, how do you "KNOW" that her age was the decisive factor or even a major factor in the accident? What if she had been 25? Do you know if there were other circumstances that may have contributed or were to blame? E.g. Do we know if she was under the influence of a drug? What if she was trying to evade another driver/vehicle from a road rage incident? What if she were trying to get somewhere more quickly due to an emergency? What if a critical component of the vehicle failed? What if a drunk driver had bumped her off the road? ETC...

Personally, I am for raising the age limits for quite a few things. I also believe that penalties for criminal acts and/or criminally negligent screw ups (including drunk driving) are neither swift enough nor severe enough.

This is an incredible amount of truly excellent questions. I honestly can NOT say age was a factor in this accident the more I have thought about it. I was at work last night staring at the off ramp she came down and at the tree. I had not even seen this reply until now, but I was wondering these same things to myself last night! The police report says alchohol was not a factor. There is a possibility that someone on the access road failed to yield to her oncoming truck, and she swerved and lost control. She could have been using her cell phone and was distracted. She could have had a medical condition and blacked out. There are so many possibilities, and only SHE truly knows the real story which means no one else ever will now......

For those who are curious about her unfortunate accident, here's the news link... Saddest thing I've ever seen in my whole life.

http://www.kristv.com/global/story.asp?s=8528031

 

[Daniel_sk]

The minimum age for a driving license in Slovakia and most European countries is 18 years.

 

[jtr1962]

For those who are curious about her unfortunate accident, here's the news link... Saddest thing I've ever seen in my whole life.

http://www.kristv.com/global/story.asp?s=8528031

This is what really killed her:

"KRIS 6 News learned that the Carroll High School senior was not wearing her seat belt and suffered severe head injuries."

To me this makes it all the more tragic. Regardless of the cause of the accident, she may well have survived it largely intact had she put on her seat belt.

 

[Monocrom]

This brings me to my question... What age do you believe should be the MINIMUM AGE to safely & responsibly drive a vehicle? I know each state is different, but I would like to see what everyone's answer is. Myself, I think 17 is NOT mature enough with confirmation being what I witnessed first hand...........

My answer is 19 :thumbsup:

I still recall attending the funeral of the son of a family friend. He was speeding in the rain, in his Dodge Durango SUV. He collided with an older driver in a Chevy Astro van. The driver ended up in the hospital. The son ended up in the morgue. He was in his early '20s. Successful, handsome, loved by many.... And he had a habit of treating his SUV as if it were an italian sports car.

No matter what age you set, there will always be those who mature earlier (or later) in Life than others. What's needed is a driving class that teaches not to treat SUVs like sports cars. Yet every night, headed home from work, I always see SUVs flying by in the fast lane. :shakehead

 

[e2x2e]

More laws won't do the trick. We just need to be more responsible, that will solve a great deal more problems than driving accidents.

 

[Samuel]

This is an incredible amount of truly excellent questions. I honestly can NOT say age was a factor in this accident the more I have thought about it. I was at work last night staring at the off ramp she came down and at the tree. I had not even seen this reply until now, but I was wondering these same things to myself last night! The police report says alchohol was not a factor. There is a possibility that someone on the access road failed to yield to her oncoming truck, and she swerved and lost control. She could have been using her cell phone and was distracted. She could have had a medical condition and blacked out. There are so many possibilities, and only SHE truly knows the real story which means no one else ever will now......

For those who are curious about her unfortunate accident, here's the news link... Saddest thing I've ever seen in my whole life.

http://www.kristv.com/global/story.asp?s=8528031

Thanks for the link. Definitely agree that it's a terrible tragedy/waste! I have kids and being notified of something like that would just about kill me.

 

[gadget_lover]

I agree with several folks that age does not matter much. The first year that you own a motorcycle you are almost guaranteed to have an accident, whether you are 15 or 50. Experience matters.

But so does maturity. An immature person is more likely to make bad decisions.

But the biggest factor in young drivers is really hormones. It's hard to drive responsibly when experiencing wild swings in emotion that one doctor equated to being on drugs. I remember the thrill of racing my buddy just to show who was "better".

Of course, that's why you should never cut off people on the freeway. If you count the number of folks under 25, add the ones that are in menopause, those that are monthly, and those on drugs...... you stand a good chance of a bad outcome if you mess with other drivers.
I was "able" to drive at 9 years old. I drove grandpa's tractor quite well. I was not fit to drive till my late 20's.


Daniel

 

[Tempest UK]

It is 17 here in the UK, and that seems a perfectly reasonable ago to me. Pushing the age limit up and up will solve nothing. Many of the accidents involving young drivers can be attributed to inexperience rather than age. That problem won't go away whether the person is 17, 20 or even 30 years of age when they first begin to drive.

Perhaps more importantly (and I'm aiming this at jtr1962's suggestion of a minimum driving age of 30) young people depend on cars. If such a high age limit were imposed, you would seriously damage the lifestyle of those deemed "too young" to be responsible to drive. When I mention "lifestyle" I don't mean not being able to impress all the girls with their car and go out at night without mummy, I mean getting to work, job interviews etc. If you're going to ban driving for such a huge number of people, you might as well scrap it entirely and do the environment a favour.

Lastly, when did age EVER correspond to maturity or responsibilty? Can those of you suggesting that the minimum age should be raised on these grounds honestly say that they have never seen irresponsible drivers over the age of 30? I have certainly seen my fair share. Drink driving, driving whilst on the phone/smoking/shaving, speeding, wreckless driving - these are things not dictated by age AT ALL. I would suggest that older drivers are merely pointing the finger - observing all the accidents due to poor driving and finding young drivers to be an easy, socially acceptable target.

Regards,
Tempest

 

[jtr1962]

Many of the accidents involving young drivers can be attributed to inexperience rather than age. That problem won't go away whether the person is 17, 20 or even 30 years of age when they first begin to drive.

While lack of driving experience is certainly a factor in the larger number of accidents youthful drivers are involved in, I submit that lack of life experience is a larger factor, and one which can only be dealt with by either a higher minimum age, or some other test for maturity (I like the suggestions by some of maintaining a certain GPA). No amount of practice driving is going to compensate for an inability to deal with hostile situations in a mature manner. For example, suppose someone cuts you off and almost causes an accident. A younger person with less life experience dealing with these kinds of situations might take it personal, get all upset, and then start getting into a road rage situation with the offending driver. An older person who has seen these things time and again (even as a passenger), will realize it's not personal, maybe the person has an emergency, or perhaps they failed to see you because of something important on their mind. They may not excuse the dangerous action on the part of the other driver, but they're not as apt to take it personally. By and large, this change in attitude mainly comes with simply living life and being able to defuse all kinds of potentially hostile situations. An older person is less likely to make rash judgements but obviously age doesn't guarantee anything. It's all just a statistical game the politicians use to their advantage. Age is admittedly not always a fair way to test for this maturity in judgement, but unfortunately it's the one usually chosen by those who make the laws.

Perhaps more importantly (and I'm aiming this at jtr1962's suggestion of a minimum driving age of 30) young people depend on cars. If such a high age limit were imposed, you would seriously damage the lifestyle of those deemed "too young" to be responsible to drive. When I mention "lifestyle" I don't mean not being able to impress all the girls with their car and go out at night without mummy, I mean getting to work, job interviews etc. If you're going to ban driving for such a huge number of people, you might as well scrap it entirely and do the environment a favour.

Here's my take on this. I've since modified my opinion a bit since I first wrote that. I'd say we should have much harder qualifications to drive rather than a minimum age, along with periodic retesting and additional qualifying for faster, more powerful vehicles (which presumably would be allowed to travel faster once these qualifications were met). Anyone willing and able to jump through all these hoops is likely mature enough for the task at hand. However, the end result of such as policy will be the same as raising the minimum age-large numbers of current drivers will no longer qualify to drive. Some may never be able to meet the more difficult qualifications due to age, disability, lower IQ, etc. Does that mean we shouldn't do this because some will have their lifestyle affected? Absolutely not. Driving is and has always been a privilege. If you choose to live somewhere with no other way to get around but the auto, the state still doesn't owe you the right to drive. Hire a taxi, carpool, take a bike, whatever, if your driving privilege is revoked. I've heard of drunk drivers using this excuse at their sentencing-"Your honor, but I'll have no way to go to work." I think the effects of a good percentage of the population being unable to drive will be positive. You'll eventually have more public transit in places where it doesn't currently exist. Those who can drive will have much emptier roads, more competent fellow drivers, likely much higher speed limits on motorways. Really, everybody benefits. The marginal drivers are off the roads for good. They won't get killed, or kill someone else. Traffic will flow better. Those who could never afford a car in the first place will get better public transit. Sounds like a win-win situation. Like I said, driving is a privilege, a very serious privilege which far too many people of all ages, not just the young, take far too lightly. Something clearly needs to be done because things like the incident which started this thread just shouldn't happen on any regular basis. Car accidents should be rare enough to make the national news whenever they do happen.

Right now, the only way I can think of having your cake and eating it also (i.e. continuing to allow near universal access to auto travel) is automated cars. I'm not sure how long until those become viable. 10 years? 20 years? Anybody know how far along R&D for this is?

 

[Tempest UK]

For example, suppose someone cuts you off and almost causes an accident. A younger person with less life experience dealing with these kinds of situations might take it personal, get all upset, and then start getting into a road rage situation with the offending driver. An older person who has seen these things time and again (even as a passenger), will realize it's not personal, maybe the person has an emergency, or perhaps they failed to see you because of something important on their mind. They may not excuse the dangerous action on the part of the other driver, but they're not as apt to take it personally. By and large, this change in attitude mainly comes with simply living life and being able to defuse all kinds of potentially hostile situations.

I certainly wouldn't agree that a young person might react badly, whereas an older person is somehow guaranteed to react well. The world is full of bad apples. I can only speak from my experience, but I have seen just as many "older" drivers engaging in road rage as I have young drivers.

Unfortunately as many drivers get older, they convince themselves that their years of "experience" of driving (addled with dangerous habits and poor technique, as it may be) somehow elevates them above those junior to them. When such people observe an accident, or an example of poor driving, where a young person was behind the wheel, they find it easy to attribute it to age, rather than the bad habits they have themselves exhibited for years.

Take, for example, the almost universal lack of tolerance for learner drivers. Blaring horns, dangerously little braking distance, hazardous overtaking...all of these behaviours seem to follow learner drivers around. But it's not the learner in the wrong - it's the intolerant driver behind them.

For some people, any number of years of "life experience" will not help them. "Life experience" is a very blunt term. It shouldn't be assumed to be something that will only help a person, leaving them in a better position to drive, or do anything else. Just as easily as those years of experience could produce a calm, responsible person who would make an excellent driver, it could produce an ill-tempered, irritable person who will go on to cause many accidents and take the lives of other road users.

Age is a very crude yardstick, but unfortunately a popular one nonetheless.

Regards,
Tempest

 

[jtr1962]

Age is a very crude yardstick, but unfortunately a popular one nonetheless.

Thank statisticians for that. Age doesn't guarantee anything, I know that, but statisticians harp on the "more likely to" phrase which gets laws passed. I'm personally probably less tolerant of other people's stupidity now than I was 25 years ago, but by the same token also I'm less likely to do something really rash no matter how annoyed I get. Years ago I pulled a knife a few times when people annoyed me. I also bodily kicked someone right off a subway train. Now at best I'll give them the finger, and only if they really do something totally retarded. My conclusion is it's just not worth it to deal with people like this. They'll still be just as stupid afterwards whether I beat the crap out of them or not. Difference is that I could get killed confronting them, or end up doing serious time.

Take, for example, the almost universal lack of tolerance for learner drivers. Blaring horns, dangerously little braking distance, hazardous overtaking...all of these behaviours seem to follow learner drivers around. But it's not the learner in the wrong - it's the intolerant driver behind them.

Yep, I see that all the time. As a cyclist I generally give learning drivers a wide berth as they already have enough to do without me getting in their way. I guess all these people blaring horns were born with steering wheels in their hands.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

There's no way to set an age on responsibility. I and most of the people I grew up with were driving tractors and farm trucks and fork lifts at 10-12, as soon as we could reach the pedals and see over the dash. I drove combines at 14 both through the fields and on roads. I've worked with men in their 50's who shouldn't be allowed to operate machinery more dangerous than fingernail clippers or a toilet.

If I was to put an age on responsibility, I'd say 18 is a lot closer to reality than 16.

:buddies:

 

[Tempest UK]

Yep, I see that all the time. As a cyclist I generally give learning drivers a wide berth as they already have enough to do without me getting in their way. I guess all these people blaring horns were born with steering wheels in their hands.

It really amazes me how some people drive around learners...I've seen a lot of drivers who feel an inexplicable urge to overtake the learner no matter what. Presumably just because they are learners. Not only are they usually breaking the speed limit to do this, but I've seen drivers overtake mere feet away from a junction

Regards,
Tempest