Secret Aircraft

[Steve K]

The average Space Shuttle mission was seven days in length. The craft above was in space for roughly 450 days. You know how much a Shuttle crew can accomplish in a week, so what went on for over a year on the X-37B?

well, without the need to sustain the parasitic life form on the spacecraft, it has the freedom to hang around in orbit for quite a while. Maybe they were evaluating how long you can leave a craft with that sort of fuel system parked in orbit w/o things breaking down? Of course, satellites probably already have a similar fuel system, so this seems unlikely.

Personally, I'm still scratching my head over why they need a vehicle that can fly back to earth when it clearly isn't intended to transport humans. I'll just assume that it brought back valuable cargo of some sort.... spy satellite parts? Parts scavenged off of other countries' satellites? Space mushrooms grown in orbit??

Steve K.

 

[Imon]

...

Personally, I'm still scratching my head over why they need a vehicle that can fly back to earth when it clearly isn't intended to transport humans. I'll just assume that it brought back valuable cargo of some sort.... spy satellite parts? Parts scavenged off of other countries' satellites? Space mushrooms grown in orbit??

Steve K.

Maybe they're trying to gather helium in anticipation for our upcoming helium shortage. :laughing:

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

I'm glad they are not just throwing away the vehicles. Hopefully, they even recover the booster stages' gas tanks too. I've always wondered if that is practiced or not.

 

[AnAppleSnail]

I'm glad they are not just throwing away the vehicles. Hopefully, they even recover the booster stages' gas tanks too. I've always wondered if that is practiced or not.

SpaceX is working on doing so. It isn't standard practice right now.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

The average Space Shuttle mission was seven days in length. The craft above was in space for roughly 450 days. You know how much a Shuttle crew can accomplish in a week, so what went on for over a year on the X-37B?

We have to look at this differently than manned flight. Lots and lots and lots of the time was spent in transit from one far flung place to another. I think it's important to realize that even with no fragile humans on board the X-37B still must use extreme measures to conserve fuel for it's extended missions. That means using tiny amounts of propellant to nudge the ship onto courses where they slowly fall onto slingshots and other effects. These kinds of energy savings are impossible to pull off if you're also trucking huge humans that must eat, drink, stay warm and eliminate waste. More fuel may be saved by catching up with moving objects more slowly than one would have to with humans aboard.

I'd imagine that an approach that slowly uses gravity and miserly amounts of fuel to propel a ship would also be more stealthy.

Waiting to slip into a slingshot with humans on board is a nonstarter.

IMO it may be that if we did know exactly where it went and how many stops it made we may be impressed with how little it seemed to do when compared to the manic activity skeds of manned space missions of the past. This is all about economy and doing things in the most thrifty manner. To that end, at one point in the mission the ship may just be put into a parking station for 3.5 months to wait for a better time to use it's fuel. Can't really do that with humans on board.

 

[Patriot]

One Keyhole sat costs about what a modern aircraft carrier costs: $1 billion.

Today's carriers are in the $5-7 billion range not including Air Wing but that's a small point. Really enjoyed all of the information in your posts and in this thread. I grew up as a young boy with my face buried in Jane's Military Encyclopedias so this stuff always fascinates me.

 

[TedTheLed]

.......

You have a beautiful planet, by the way!

you should have seen it 2 centuries ago!

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Today's carriers are in the $5-7 billion range not including Air Wing but that's a small point. Really enjoyed all of the information in your posts and in this thread. I grew up as a young boy with my face buried in Jane's Military Encyclopedias so this stuff always fascinates me.

That's true but when the KH12 was launched a carrier cost a billion... Of course, a billion isn't what it used to be...

A new KH bird today would probably still cost about the same as a carrier. Some things never change.

In the 1870s if you had a US $20 gold piece to spend you could buy a really nice suit or you could buy a Colt Peacemaker 45. It turns out that today if you have the same coin you may still buy a very nice suit and on most days it's still worth enough to buy a Colt Peacemaker 45.

 

[Patriot]

neat video.
Always fun to see what parts get hot, etc. It has me wondering why the rudders look hot, and not just the leading edges.

Yeah, that's very interesting. I'm not sure why the center of the diagonal stabilizers would be indicating that high a temp. unless it's just acting like a big heat sink due to significant required structure. I imagine there's a lot of load on control surfaces as they have to handle pitch roll and yaw.

LEDAdd1ct
You have a beautiful planet, by the way!

you should have seen it 2 centuries ago!

Meanwhile, Ted's doing his part by living in grass huts and burning zero coal, oil, or wood... Just giving ya a hard time buddy!

 

[StarHalo]

Looking around military airbases and what they've left parked outside is half the reason to have Google Earth; a screencap at the Skunkworks facility reveals a covered craft that hasn't been announced to the public yet:

 

[Sub_Umbra]

I think it's a Papier-mâché model built to fool Google.

 

[orbital]

That's true but when the KH12 was launched a carrier cost a billion... Of course, a billion isn't what it used to be...

A new KH bird today would probably still cost about the same as a carrier. Some things never change.

In the 1870s if you had a US $20 gold piece to spend you could buy a really nice suit or you could buy a Colt Peacemaker 45. It turns out that today if you have the same coin you may still buy a very nice suit and on most days it's still worth enough to buy a Colt Peacemaker 45.

...question is,, to get more coins, do you need the Colt Peacemaker or that really nice suit??

>>

 

[EZO]

neat video.
Always fun to see what parts get hot, etc. It has me wondering why the rudders look hot, and not just the leading edges.

The soundtrack has me confused too, as it sounds like a jet engine. Might be chase planes? It's certainly not the X-37B itself!

Steve K.

You know Steve, I agree that it does indeed sound like a jet engine and when I read your post I thought, yeah, chase planes. But I just watched the video again and the sound corresponds directly with the deceleration of the X-37B and stops precisely when it does, so apparently whatever is causing the sound is emanating from the craft itself! Chase planes would have continued their fly-by. I wonder if the two holes above the rear rocket nozzle have anything to do with it. Perhaps the side vents are air intakes of some kind.

 

[Steve K]

Looking around military airbases and what they've left parked outside is half the reason to have Google Earth; a screencap at the Skunkworks facility reveals a covered craft that hasn't been announced to the public yet:

It's fun to look at the parts pile by the former McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing) radar cross section test range at Smart Airfield in St Charles, MO (just north of St Charles, and the SE corner of the airport area). There are also a couple of pylons that they put small scale models on and check the radar return. Bits of F-15 laying around, and something that looks like chunks of a stealth UAV.

Steve K.

 

[Kilted]

...question is,, to get more coins, do you need the Colt Peacemaker or that really nice suit??

>>

Easy, you can steal more money with a really nice suite than Colt Peacemaker these days.

=D~~Kilted

 

[Patriot]

You know Steve, I agree that it does indeed sound like a jet engine and when I read your post I thought, yeah, chase planes. But I just watched the video again and the sound corresponds directly with the deceleration of the X-37B and stops precisely when it does, so apparently whatever is causing the sound is emanating from the craft itself!

Since it's directly linked to the speed and got quieter as it slowed, until silent, I suspect it's related to wheel speed. Sounds like friction associated brakes, wheels, tires or a combination of all.

 

[EZO]

Since it's directly linked to the speed and got quieter as it slowed, until silent, I suspect it's related to wheel speed. Sounds like friction associated brakes, wheels, tires or a combination of all.

I certainly considered that but the sound is very reminiscent of a turbine engine spinning down and I don't recall hearing other similar landing gear make so much noise. Then again, the sound does stop as soon as the craft does, so you are probably right.
I still wonder what those holes above the rocket nozzle are for.

 

[JemR]

We have to look at this differently than manned flight. Lots and lots and lots of the time was spent in transit from one far flung place to another. I think it's important to realize that even with no fragile humans on board the X-37B still must use extreme measures to conserve fuel for it's extended missions. That means using tiny amounts of propellant to nudge the ship onto courses where they slowly fall onto slingshots and other effects.

IMO it may be that if we did know exactly where it went and how many stops it made we may be impressed with how little it seemed to do when compared to the manic activity skeds of manned space missions of the past. This is all about economy and doing things in the most thrifty manner. To that end, at one point in the mission the ship may just be put into a parking station for 3.5 months to wait for a better time to use it's fuel. Can't really do that with humans on board.

Yes, I think you are spot on Sub_Umbra. The OTV is said to "loiter" in orbit. Probably while it recharges from it's solar array, performs very small course change manoeuvres and does many, many other things unknown to us. Maybe, as you say, just simply waiting for the next job to come to it, thus saving precious fuel. That must take up lots of time, has to. But, No humans = No hurry, just sit and wait. Loitering some where near the Tiangong-1 maybe. Oops, No. Just kidding. It will be very interesting to see the next one go up around the middle of October though.

 

[Steve K]

.....I still wonder what those holes above the rocket nozzle are for.

They make me think of the Space Shuttle's "Orbital Maneuvering System", which were a set of smaller engines used for.... well, I don't have to tell you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Orbital_Maneuvering_System

Steve K.


edit:
Looking at the How Stuff Works page on the OMS, it mentions the fuel that is used:
"The OMS engines burn monomethyl hydrazine fuel (CH3NHNH2) and nitrogen tetroxide oxidizer (N2O4). "
It also mentions that the OMS is used to slow the craft for re-entry. After each use, the fuel lines are purged to get that stuff out of the lines:
"When the engines shut off, the nitrogen goes from the valves into the fuel lines momentarily to flush the lines of any remaining fuel and oxidizer; this purge of the line prevents any unwanted explosions."
Seems like that might result in some being on the exterior of the craft, which might explain why the ground crew for the X-37B were wearing hazmat suits. .... just a theory...

 

[Lips]

Since it's directly linked to the speed and got quieter as it slowed, until silent, I suspect it's related to wheel speed. Sounds like friction associated brakes, wheels, tires or a combination of all.

I was on a trip a few years ago (summer 2004 (8 years ago)) to Tuscon, Arizona ( I think - in Kelly & Patriots back yard! ) and got to touch a SR71 Titanium skin at an air museum, awesome! I did lean over the rope! No security what so ever on the old technology (Too old to even secure) - so I believe the Aurora is alive! If I remember correctly there was a bone yard full of Military Aircraft in the desert dry air nearby...




http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a369/vdcjr/Tucson090.jpg





TITANIUM

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President Lyndon Johnson Air Force One!



http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a369/vdcjr/Tucson086.jpg







Not what you see today!

]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a369/vdcjr/Tucson076.jpg





SECRET!

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Was not much room at all! I was shocked thinking what a piece of junk for 2004 ( 20 year old plane ) i.e. We have come a long way since the SR71 Black Bird... To the right the National Security Adviser Station!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a369/vdcjr/Tucson080.jpg





http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a369/vdcjr/Tucson083.jpg



Cockpit (looked like a damn crop duster!!!)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a369/vdcjr/Tucson085.jpg






Cheers




Edit: The prop plane is older than the jet plane in photos. They would not let us on the jet plane. The prop plane would have been early LBJ or John F Kennedy...



Your images are WAY too large and have been replaced with links
See Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels. - Norm



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