self defense with LED?

[knifebright]

Well its not a cree or Seoul so some may say its outdated or underpowered but properly placed i think even this lowly T-bined Lux3 at 230grn, can get the job done.

jimmy

 

[Frank Maddix]

Self defense with an led?


I wish you luck.

Yep the only way would be to carry two, both at arms length on opposite sides, and pretend you were two people... "You see him, Jed?" [Different voice] "Yep, I see him Jim - let's go for a No. 1 retinal burn.." At which point the attacker will scarper of course.

 

[LightScene]

From what I've read, the best kind of pepper spray is foam. It won't blow around and affect everybody in your vicinity. If you get it on their face, they will try to wipe it off and only make matters worse. If they are wearing glasses you can spray their glasses.

I carry it for protection from dogs. Haven't had to use it yet, but one time I aimed it at an aggressive dog with the intention of spraying him, and he turned and walked away. Smart dog.

 

[r0b0r]

A few months ago I was sitting on a bench havin a smoke and a couple cops walked by. I was pretty bored (on a break from rather dull onhand tech support at a conference) so struck up a conversation with 'em.
It was mainly referring to self defence and I asked them about the legalities of pepper spray.

I live in Western Australia, and from what these cops told me carrying pepper spray as a defensive weapon is illegal.
If it's in a girls handbag they generally won't care, though technically it's illegal he said.

If a guy's caught with it, then it's posession of a controlled weapon.

If a guy's caught using it, then it's assault with a controlled weapon.

So unless you're in the case of "imminent death or dismemberment", it's not a great idea to defend yourself with anything other than your body!
Oh, and even if you do use a "weapon" when it's justified, the law is not on your side in the slightest.

It is totally illegal to carry ANY form of defensive weapon here. Knives, stunguns, OC spray, kubotan etc......

Hell, under our bullshyte laws even a flashlight could be construed as a weapon!

*shakes head at australia's absolutely pathetic laws*

 

[yalskey]

LightScene:
Pepper Foam's disadvantage is that it is a more specific direction stream, so it doesn't cover a wide conic area. In other words, you have to be more precise when aiming it. If you use pepper spray or foam, I recommend buying a couple cans of inert (harmless / painless) pepper spray / foam. Use this to train with ahead of time. You never want to have to do something for the first time when your life is on the line.

r0b0r:
It's a shame that the government insists upon disarming the victim. These types of laws do NOTHING to reduce violent crime, and do EVERYTHING to decrease the target / victim's options to defend themselves. I guess the age old saying holds here... I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[Art Vandelay]

This reminds me of an old story about a man and his grandson out for a ride in his buggy. "Watch this son" said the old man, and then he smacked a fat bumble bee that was buzzing the horses with his buggy whip. The big bumble bee was knocked away so fast it practically disappeared. Later, in the barn the little boy sees a bee hive. "Make'um disappear Granddad.", the young boy said excitedly. His grandpa relied, "No, son that's different, that is an organization."

The moral of the story is that if you want your rights to be respected, you have to organize with like-minded individuals. That's the only way to reclaim the power usurped by an overreaching government.

A few months ago I was sitting on a bench havin a smoke and a couple cops walked by. I was pretty bored (on a break from rather dull onhand tech support at a conference) so struck up a conversation with 'em.
It was mainly referring to self defence and I asked them about the legalities of pepper spray.

I live in Western Australia, and from what these cops told me carrying pepper spray as a defensive weapon is illegal.
If it's in a girls handbag they generally won't care, though technically it's illegal he said.

If a guy's caught with it, then it's posession of a controlled weapon.

If a guy's caught using it, then it's assault with a controlled weapon.

So unless you're in the case of "imminent death or dismemberment", it's not a great idea to defend yourself with anything other than your body!
Oh, and even if you do use a "weapon" when it's justified, the law is not on your side in the slightest.

It is totally illegal to carry ANY form of defensive weapon here. Knives, stunguns, OC spray, kubotan etc......

Hell, under our bullshyte laws even a flashlight could be construed as a weapon!

*shakes head at australia's absolutely pathetic laws*

 

[Focal]

It is totally illegal to carry ANY form of defensive weapon here. Knives, stunguns, OC spray, kubotan etc......

Hell, under our bullshyte laws even a flashlight could be construed as a weapon!

*shakes head at australia's absolutely pathetic laws*

Sorry r0b0r, I totally disagree with you there!

I too live in Perth, Western Australia. And think our laws in regards to weapons on the street are spot on.

The reason there are so many gun deaths in America each year is because there are hundreds of thousands of citizens in every city walking around with firearms on them or within reach. And of course as soon as things go wrong, in life, in love, in business, these weapons are often turned too as a solution to their problems.

If everyone in Australia was allowed to carry pepper spray, knives, batons or guns, I can promise you, our mortality rate in Australia will be similar to those in the USA.

Think about it... A city of people, all needing to carry knives or weapons to protect themselves against all the other people carrying knives or weapons, (for personal protection of course). Every time a fight breaks out in a bar or club there is a strong chance someone will pull out their knife (which they carry in self defense of course) in anger or panic.. and before anyone can work out what's going on.. another life is snuffed out.

Lets think about it. Say 70% of the population of Australia are law abiding citizens, at the moment this means the chances are 70% of Australians will choose not to carry illegal weapons. If it's made legal, you will probably find this figure will drop to less than %40. As people will adopt the philosophy of carrying a weapon of some kind as "Self Defense".

Lets face it... the chances of needing to defend yourself with a weapon is far lower in Australia, than countries which have alternate laws.

 

[Focal]

I just re-read my first sentence and thought I need to clarify.. I am not PRO or ANTI gun rights. If I lived in USA I would choose to cary a firearm. I just used firearms as an example because its at the serious end of the self defence scale.

 

[BUZ]

Sorry r0b0r, I totally disagree with you there!

I too live in Perth, Western Australia. And think our laws in regards to weapons on the street are spot on.

The reason there are so many gun deaths in America each year is because there are hundreds of thousands of citizens in every city walking around with firearms on them or within reach. And of course as soon as things go wrong, in life, in love, in business, these weapons are often turned too as a solution to their problems.

Well cars kill more people than do handguns, maybe australia should ban them too LMAO! I for one like the fact that my Country has not stripped from me the right to carry a firearm.

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Fight socialism. Buy a gun.


http://www.westnet.com/~levins/guncontrol3.html


http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/6/26/12629


http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/aus.html









.
[/size][/font]

 

[BUZ]

From what I've read, the best kind of pepper spray is foam. It won't blow around and affect everybody in your vicinity. If you get it on their face, they will try to wipe it off and only make matters worse. If they are wearing glasses you can spray their glasses.

I carry it for protection from dogs. Haven't had to use it yet, but one time I aimed it at an aggressive dog with the intention of spraying him, and he turned and walked away. Smart dog.

I really don't care for any brand of pepper foam for several reasons, one the bad guys can actually scoop it off of their face and throw it back @ you (seen it happen), two the foam doesn't have the spraying distance of a stream spray (which is very important), three one of the things that make OC so effective is that it is inhaled (thus effective the respatory system) foam really doesn't have these effects.

I teach self defense courses and have been spray with a variety of chemical agents, punch II-freeze+P, def-tec, bodyguard LE-10, fox labs and sabre red. Sabre red level III is hands down the nastiest crap I've even been hit with (it's hotter than the fire of hell)! No kidding after 10+ hours my face, nose and eyes were still stinging.

While I don't think foam is the best option it's certainly better than nothing at all, if you haven't fire it before you really should purchase another can or two and test fire it so you'll have a feel for it.


This is what I carry, sabre red level III 1.33% major Capsaicinoids SHU rating or a sprays percentage % alone isn't what determines the spays true heat the major Capsaicinoids are.





BTW stay away from cone/fog spray patterns, just the slightest bit of wind and you'll be hosing yourself instead of the bad guy!

 

[Secur1]

About self-defence with a led light, the only way i see myself using it as a security officer is as a fistfull... ie my LF1 fits nicely

As far as our gun wielding friends across the pond, if you like them keep them, i personaly would not like the idea of guns being purchased "freely" by members of the public. I like the fact that even the police over here has to have a special permit to carry fire arms and there is tight control over them. That's why gun related crime and accidents are so low here.
Also i remember one video from the states where one officer was putting handcuffs on a suspect on the ground while a female officer had him at gun point and suddenly her weapon discharged and the bullet hit the ground about 3" from the suspects ear nearly missing both him and her colligue....
One last thing and i hope i don't start a flame war here, i pesonaly find it a bit of an oxymoron that on one hand you believe that having the right to have a gun is good for your democratic rights etc while on the other you sighn away your right to privacy with the Patriot act. To me my privacy is just as valuable as the rest of my rights and freedoms.

Sorry for side tracking the thread and if i said too much i can edit/remove anything that can be dimmed offencive or inflammatory.

 

[SKYWLKR]

The Cities that bring our country average up are cities with Heavy gun bans. DC, LA, Chicago, Boston, NY ;all those cities have the most stringent gun laws in the country and yet have higher crime and murder rates than cities that are Pro CCW...

In Cities where gun owner ship is Required their rate is the absolute LOWEST of any other cities.

Criminals don't operate in areas where there is a good chance of attempting to rob,kidnap,kill, etc an armed Citizen.

I think what we have here is what called projection. If YOU feel you cant handle a firearm responsibly then everyone else MUST be the same way, therefore NO one should have firearms!!!

As far as the patriot act I DO NOT and MOST DO NOT support it!!!

If one is to give up an ounce of liberty for Safety; one deserves neither!

Sorry r0b0r, I totally disagree with you there!

I too live in Perth, Western Australia. And think our laws in regards to weapons on the street are spot on.

The reason there are so many gun deaths in America each year is because there are hundreds of thousands of citizens in every city walking around with firearms on them or within reach. And of course as soon as things go wrong, in life, in love, in business, these weapons are often turned too as a solution to their problems.

If everyone in Australia was allowed to carry pepper spray, knives, batons or guns, I can promise you, our mortality rate in Australia will be similar to those in the USA.

Think about it... A city of people, all needing to carry knives or weapons to protect themselves against all the other people carrying knives or weapons, (for personal protection of course). Every time a fight breaks out in a bar or club there is a strong chance someone will pull out their knife (which they carry in self defense of course) in anger or panic.. and before anyone can work out what's going on.. another life is snuffed out.

Lets think about it. Say 70% of the population of Australia are law abiding citizens, at the moment this means the chances are 70% of Australians will choose not to carry illegal weapons. If it's made legal, you will probably find this figure will drop to less than %40. As people will adopt the philosophy of carrying a weapon of some kind as "Self Defense".

Lets face it... the chances of needing to defend yourself with a weapon is far lower in Australia, than countries which have alternate laws.

 

[Art Vandelay]

It's better to get information from research than to rely on stereotypes.

I recommend this link. It is a summary of a UN report on crime. If you want the full report, see the links below the summary link.

This sums up the report of about Criminal Victimisation in Seventeen Industrialised Countries from the the Hague, Ministry of Justice, WODC.
http://www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/pdf_files/key2000i/index.htm

I found it interesting that Australia led the list for the percentage of population who were victimized by violent crime, but the US did not even make the top ten.

UNICRI - UNITED NATIONS INTERREGIONAL CRIME AND JUSTICE RESEARCH INSTITUTE

THE EU ICS RESEARCH CONSORTIUM PRESENTS THE RESULTS
OF THE FIRST COMPREHENSIVE COMPARATIVE SURVEY
OF VICTIM RATES, FEAR OF CRIME AND SUBJECTIVE WELLBEING IN EUROPE
http://www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/

Kesteren, J.N.van, Mayhew, P. & Nieuwbeerta, P. (2000) Criminal Victimisation in Seventeen Industrialised Countries: Key-findings from the 2000 international Crime Victims Survey. the Hague, Ministry of Justice, WODC. Onderzoek en beleid, nr. 187
Text in PDF
http://www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/pdf_files/key2000i/index.htm#download%20full%20text%20in%20pdf

 

[Lobo]

Seen it before, and it's happening again, we're like 4 post from shutting this thread down, shouldn't we keep this kind of discussions in the Café? I dont think anyone will convince anybody of the opposite opinion here anyway.

 

[Focal]

Good call Lobo.

How about them flash lights eh?

 

[stonehenge69]

If you're going to rely on a flashlight for self defence, it better be attached to something.

My "self defence light" is only 120 lumens but I'm confident it would get the job done if called upon.
The flashlight itself may not stop the bad guy, but that sudden flash of light coming out of the end of the barrel will.

 

[Focal]

 

[BUZ]

If you're going to rely on a flashlight for self defence, it better be attached to something.

My "self defence light" is only 120 lumens but I'm confident it would get the job done if called upon.
The flashlight itself may not stop the bad guy, but that sudden flash of light coming out of the end of the barrel will.

Nice rig you got there! :thumbsup: You shooting 230 hardball or do you have it full of HP?

 

[Schnotts]

My goodness, I thought my .40 cal duty pistol was big!

 

[stonehenge69]

Nice rig you got there! :thumbsup: You shooting 230 hardball or do you have it full of HP?

230 gr. Double Tap HP's. I hear that the flash they produce is closer to that of a LED




Trey