Several Q's about after market Aux Lights

Mdinana

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Hi all.

I've got a couple of questions about aftermarket aux. lights. I'm thinking of running 2 amber-fog lights and 2-clear driving lights. I've got an 09 tacoma with stock fogs already, and these new ones will be on a lightbar. Use will be mainly on-road/rural for the driving lights and on-road/suburban for the fogs (in foggy conditions, go figure!).

My first 2 thougts on the fog lights are:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002MAE7A/?tag=cpf0b6-20 and
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002M9TQW/?tag=cpf0b6-20


For the driving lights, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002M9TQW/?tag=cpf0b6-20. This might change to Rallye or KC, but something in this price range and output.

So my questions:
1) Better options for either? I'd like a pair to be <$150 ideally.
2) Will after-market fogs be legal in city environments?
3) How will wiring 4 55-W bulbs affect my electrical system? Will I need to be changing fuses, wires, etc? Add a second battery? I can't see me using all 4 of these simultaneously, due to their different intended uses... unless I end up with white fog lights. Not sure if it helps in answering the question, but my truck has a slightly "bigger" alternator since I have the towing package.

Thanks for everyones thoughs.
 
KC lights and Rallye lights = poorly-made junk from China (gimmicky 23-year warranty or no gimmicky 23-year warranty). Hella 500s are a good lamp (get the ones made in Germany, not the ones made in Taiwan). So are Cibie #40s and Bosch Compact 100s. Yellow fogs work better.

2) Will after-market fogs be legal in city environments?

Depends on state law. Fog lamps should be turned off most of the time. They are meant to be used in foggy (or rainy/snowy) weather to help you grope your way along at very low speed by making it slightlye easier to see the edges of the road close to the car so you can safely make your way through foul weather. That is all these lamps are designed, intended, and able to do. They don't let you keep on keepin' on at normal road speeds. Most people do not need fog lamps, regardless of whether they think they do!

"Driving" lights are auxiliary high beams.

3) How will wiring 4 55-W bulbs affect my electrical system? Will I need to be changing fuses, wires, etc? Add a second battery?

You don't need an extra battery. You do need relays.

I can't see me using all 4 of these simultaneously, due to their different intended uses... unless I end up with white fog lights.

How do you figure the former follows the latter?

Seems to me you'd be better off putting better bulbs (these) in the headlamps at least for starters.
 
Thanks for the advice so far.

I have replaced the stock bulbs already on my headlights. Sylvania Silverstars (which I realize seem to have a poor rep on CPF, but do well by me)

As for the white fog/driving light, I figured if I did that I could use all 4 if I really felt so inclined. I'd be less likely to use yellow fogs as a pseudo-headlight.
 
Thanks for the advice so far.

I have replaced the stock bulbs already on my headlights. Sylvania Silverstars (which I realize seem to have a poor rep on CPF, but do well by me)

Nope, they don't. You only think they do. It's an optical illusion; in fact they produce markedly less light than even the standard bulbs you took out. And the (reduced) light they put out is less useable by your eyes, particularly in bad weather. It's a scam. Get 'em out of there and put in real bulbs with colorless clear glass (the ones I linked are the best standard-wattage bulbs presently available) before you judge your needs for auxiliary lights.

As for the white fog/driving light, I figured if I did that I could use all 4 if I really felt so inclined. I'd be less likely to use yellow fogs as a pseudo-headlight.

Fog lamps are not headlights or "pseudo headlights", no matter what color light they produce, and there is never a valid reason to use fogs with high beams or with driving lights.

You need to choose whether you want to play with colored lights and toys (Silver star bulbs, cheap toy auxiliary lights) or see well at night and in foul weather. One or the other, not both.
 
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Nope, they don't. You only think they do. It's an optical illusion; in fact they produce markedly less light than even the standard bulbs you took out. And the (reduced) light they put out is less useable by your eyes, particularly in bad weather. It's a scam.
..
2 questions on that last post : Both essentially the same idea. What evidence are you basing the above statements on, and what sort of comparison shows Phillips to be best currently? Not trying to pick a fight, just want to make sure that I'm using good data in my choices.

Thanks!
 
What evidence are you basing the above statements on

The laws of physics. Putting a blue filter in the system, whether it's in the bulb glass, the reflector, or the lens, significantly cuts down on light transmission. That's how filters work, by blocking part of the light, and because glowing filaments don't produce much blue light, blocking nonblue light (which is how a blue filter works) substantially cuts usable output. It changes the color of the light, but that doesn't make the light more effective (there's some evidence it makes it less effective), and it increases apparent glare (without an improvement in seeing). See research on these bulbs from the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute here (pdf). Additional info on blue (and yellow) color filtration of filament bulbs is in this post .

and what sort of comparison shows Phillips to be best currently?

Not Philips in General (though most of their bulbs are best-in-class or tied for B-I-C or at least close), but specifically the Philips Xtreme Power bulbs previously linked to.

Tests, see this one for starters. See also here and here, here (he's confused; the Xtreme Powers are not HIR bulbs, but still good pics and text), here (bizarre but interesting pics).
 
Great! I've got some reading ahead of me :D

I appreciate the links; my post-call Googling at 11pm last night wasn't yielding a lot of useful info.
 
One thing. I noticed that you said that you were planning to put your fog lights on a lightbar. I am assuming that this would mean the lights are over the roof of the cab. If that is the case, that is not a good place for fog lights (not if you want them to be useful, that is). They need to be as low and far apart as possible. If, in fact, my assumption is wrong and you are planning on mounting these fog lights low, just ignore my post.
 
Good question. Nope, the lights are going low:
http://www.avidoffroad.com/gallery/

Check out picture #2. You'll notice the outermost lights are about 2 inches lower than the middle 2. Still probably 20-24" above ground, which might be a little high.
 
Good question. Nope, the lights are going low:
http://www.avidoffroad.com/gallery/

Check out picture #2. You'll notice the outermost lights are about 2 inches lower than the middle 2. Still probably 20-24" above ground, which might be a little high.
Ah. When you said "light bar" I pictured one of those things that mounts over the cab. Fog lights would be thoroughly useless up there. They should be fine where you plan on mounting them, though. Just put the fogs on the outboard locations and the auxilary high beams on the inboard locations. BTW, Cibie makes good stuff, and Daniel Stern seems to be the guy to buy it from. I have never bought anything from him, but I have asked him a couple of questions about the headlights on a car I have and he responded quickly and seemed really knowledgeable.
 
Bosch are available only in clear, right?

The car's fog lights are clear already. I can't say I've used them much in fog, so can't tell how useful they truly are. Guess I'll start finding out in a few months with spring.
 
My Compact 100's are yellow. I have not used the clear version and can't comment on which one is more effective. I'd have preferred clear fogs for the same reason I prefer clear headlight bulbs instead of blue, but Stern had yellow so I went with yellow. Much less losses filtering out the blue components of light than the yellow/orange ones.
 
If you want a slightly better light than the Hella 500, go for the newer FF 500 or FF 700, which are newer lights of about the same (or slightly larger) size, using free form technology. That means they use the shape of the reflector, rather than fluting on the lens, to shape the beam – the lens is just a clear piece of glass. Having seen the output of the Hella 500 and the same size Hella 160, they are very much like a spot (pencil) beam in shape – very narrow. They provide plenty of light, but don't illuminate the sides of the road (and off the road) enough for me.

To illuminate the sides of the road better, if you spend a bit more, and get a slightly larger light, the Hella Rallye 1000 or newer Rallye FF 1000, in driving beam form (not pencil beam) provides a beam length around the same or slightly better than the 500 or 160, but with much better width. If your roads have corners, they are the ones to go for. The even better Rallye FF 4000 Compact is also a free form light of around the same size, but the light casing is much stronger, and in driving beam form, provides a similar beam to the Rallye 1000 – nice and wide. The older Rallye 1000 does have the misfortune of using the halogen H2 globe, so suffers the problems of short globe life, and the globe holder springs getting hot and losing their tension, that many H2 lights suffer. So the Rallye FF 1000 or FF 4000 Compact (both H1 bulbs) are probably the best of the compact larger size Hella lights, without going to the size of the Rallye 2000, 4000 or Cibie Super Oscar. The Rallye 4000 Compact does need a relatively sturdy bar to support it, as the metal is quite thick, and it weighs close to 2 kg per light.

And as Scheinwerfermann said (he knows the subject well), you shouldn't be running fog lights and driving lights at the same time. Fog lights produce such a short beam, that at anything over 40 km/h (25 mph), you'll be out driving them. They are only for fog, and shouldn't be used anywhere else. Unfortunately plenty of Australians still drive around with their fog lights on all the time, despite the fact that Australia joined Europe and NZ and made it illegal a few months ago to use them in anything other than fog, in all states and territories.

If you want to get some beam width, see my recommendations above. Other lights to go for with good beam width are the driving beam type Cibie Oscar or Oscar Plus (much wider beam than the Oscar, but it uses H2 bulbs). The much newer free form Cibie, the Oscar SC is excellent. The Oscar SC comes in two forms – a cornering light, which has an incredibly wide beam, but still plenty of range, and the driving beam, which still produces a nice wide beam, but outdistances even the spot (pencil) beam Oscar. The SC costs more, but is the one to go for:thumbsup:, if you can afford it – I prefer nice wide beams, so would go for one cornering beam, and one driving beam, to get both range and width for the hairpin bends near where I live. (I currently have Oscar Plus, and Hella 4000 Compact lights, both in driving beam - not both on the same car.)

Since I notice there has been some comment about yellow or clear fog lights, Hella Australia (Hella's second oldest factory) say that yellow (or amber) fog lights aren't as efficient in light output as clear ones, due to the yellow filter. The yellow colouring absorbs about 20% of the light, according to them. They have a comprehensive test laboratory, and supply diagrams which give an idea of beam length and width, in their online catalogue, at http://db.hella.com.au/cgi-bin/catalogue.pl?flcmd=showsection&flrecsection=Auxiliary – just click on the part number, and see more info about it. Note that the 500 FF and 700 FF aren't sold in Australia at the moment, so there is no info about them.


As you should have the headlights, fog lights and driving lights on their own separate circuits, you will be quite OK running two 55W fog lights, or two 55W driving lights, at the same time as the headlights. (Modern car alternators should handle ALL the lights at the same time, unless you have a large high power - several hundred watts - aftermarket stereo to run.) The alternator should easily have enough capacity to handle the lights. Use separate fuses (about 20 or 30A for two 55W globes), as close to the battery as possible, for each two lights, and use a relay for each two lights. Switch the driving light relay on from one of the high beam wires, and the fog lights from one of the park lights or low beam headlights, depending on the local laws where you are (some jurisdictions won't allow fog lights to operate with just park lights, and no headlights). Also use separate interior switches to switch the fog and driving lights off – it's law here in Australia that an interior switch is needed to switch fog and driving lights off (you can't just run the driving light relay straight off the high beam wire - it most go via a switch), and may be where you are, too. There are also laws about how many lights can be run at the same time on the road, so check that with your local traffic authorities.
 
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.. the rallye 1000FFs are now on run-out.

Bret


Yes, it may be that the Rallye FF 4000 Compacts have replaced them - they are certainly much stronger. Off road enthusiasts here in Australia regularly destroy aftermarket driving lamps on rough roads - there's a lot of talk about their strengths, or other wise, on 4WD forums. Interestingly, those Australian Lightforce lights, which people like shooting at and saying how strong they are, regularly fall apart when used by long distance truckers on rough roads in outback Australia - the lenses may be strong, but the mounts aren't.
 
Since I notice there has been some comment about yellow or clear fog lights, Hella Australia (Hella's second oldest factory) say that yellow (or amber) fog lights aren't as efficient in light output as clear ones, due to the yellow filter. The yellow colouring absorbs about 20% of the light, according to them.

The science doesn't support that assertion, but it's certainly understandable why that statement comes from Hella; the Germans spent many years objecting to yellow light for the sole reason that it was a French idea. See here (and in particular, read the fifth link, Bullough & Rea's study on white vs. yellow light for driving in bad weather).

As for filtration losses: 20%? No, not that high, but even if that were an accurate number, it's blue/violet light that's lost, and blue/violet light tends to work against a human driver's efforts to see in bad weather at night.
 
As for filtration losses: 20%? No, not that high, but even if that were an accurate number, it's blue/violet light that's lost, and blue/violet light tends to work against a human driver's efforts to see in bad weather at night.

Well, I may be wrong - it was some time ago, that I saw that figure - it might have been 15%. Figures from the Swedish light company NBB seem to agree that yellow fog lights aren't as efficient as clear ones - they have several lights in both clear and yellow, and the clear ones are always better for light output. And it wasn't Hella Germany that the figures came from, it was Hella Australia, who have their own lab (they make all headlights for Australian manufactured cars, which include Ford, Holden, Toyota, and until recently, Mitsubishi). According to Hella, the perception that yellow fog lights were better than clear ones was just that, a perception. Hella do also sell yellow fog lights. They don't sell any yellow or blue bulbs, although there is a Cool Blue bulb, which produces a whiter, but lower output emmission because of the blue filter, and a long life globe, which is aimed at truck drivers who require long life bulbs. They often suppement their dim long life headlights with driving lights.
 
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