Shootings at Virginia Tech

[bwaites]

This is a tragedy, and it would NOT have been averted in any way by different gun laws.

Though I won't get into an argument about it, I would point out that prior to this the worst school related shooting was in Germany, which has strict gun laws, and that the last school shooting was in Canada, which also has strict gun laws.

When criminals break the law, they don't care what the laws are!!

Bill

 

[supes]

I think a lot of people are missing the point and one of the problems that I at least see.

Where in the freakin WORLD were Campus Police/Security?!?! My god, where are the cops?

Why didn't any of the students call 911?! Cause I KNOW there are students in class who SMS text the whole period!
Why didn't any of the students put up a little fight or something? 30+ dead?! This person must have took his precious time...

I'm about guns but this is NOT the issue here. Arming people and arming people with PROPER TRAINING is two different things. I wonder if the gunman or gunMEN fit the same profiles as others who have done these horrific disgusting acts..

 

[BUZ]

First off it makes me sad to see young kids die like this, however the guns themself are not @ fault (the gun will not kill a person unless a person pulls the trigger)! When I was a kid growing up I did not have to worry about some crazed kid coming into my school and shooting us up and back then there were semi auto pistols capable of inflicting same damage!

I truly think the problem lies in all the crap/garbage that kids and young adults are exposed to these days! Ultra violent horror flicks, music full of lyrics talking about shooting cops ect. and the video games they have out now are just insane (won't let my son touch them)! This is a problem that needs fixing IMO!!!

 

[BB]

It appears that the gunman may have been here on a student visa:

Suntimes:

[remove quote as almost everything in this article is wrong. Later post/information shows the person to have been a South Korean student permanent US resident. -BB]

On the self-defense issue... I have not been tracking the statistics for a couple of decades--but I believe it is still true--that armed citizens have a lower rate of "shooting the wrong person" vs police... (not to say that the police don't have a hard time of trying to separate the good from the bad).

-Bill

 

[metalhed]

As for this kid/guy being on drugs, medicated, etc.
I could care less.
I am tired of hearing excuses.
So what if mommy didnt hug him enough when he was a kid, or maybe daddy hugged him TOO much.
Tough sh*t, thats NO excuse to go randomly shooting ppl.

~John

As someone who won't have guns in the house because of the (treated) mental illness of another family member, I encourage all of you to consider that the human mind is easily misled...by mental illness, alcoholism, drug abuse, Alzheimer's, and a host of other conditions. If you've never known someone with profound mental illness (and you may have, I have no way of knowing), I would ask that you refrain from confusing excuse and reason.

Mental illness isn't an excuse, but it may indeed be the reason for this tragedy. Please understand that those who are mentally disturbed are not rational...there is simply no way to know what perspective this shooter had on life, both his own and others. What is sad is that this one, almost certainly irrational human, felt that killing others was some sort of solution...when we all know the exact opposite is true.

 

[4sevens]

I'm in no way a gun advocate or a gun law advocate. I know generally
firearms are banned from college campuses. But imagine if
students were allowed to carry. Would less people have died? I'd think so.
Bottom line is, no gun law is going to stop a psycho from getting one from
the underground market. But gun laws do prevent people from defending
themselves. Think about that. :thinking:

 

[VWTim]

Too sad. The 2 students killed in Arizona last month were my son's best friends. Numbing.
I say there should be a cooling off/investigation period before the purchase of any firearm. In Nassau Co., NY, it takes months to acquire a license.
Why isn't this done nationally?

As far as "investigation" periods, the FBI and many states can now do them in less than 5 minutes, verify if you have a record or any questionable past. If questionable they put a hold on the sale. All that will do is make it harder for my to buy guns. Why would I need a "cooling off" period to buy my 10th? handgun?

Either way it's a tragedy. But even without firearms it's amazing no one succeeded in disarming him. Although maybe the news will come out later some tried.

 

[Robocop]

What is wrong with people these days.....I have seen many in the news question the school and some are even blaming the school for the higher death toll. Many have said they were told to stay inside and away from windows and later said this allowed more to get killed...WTF....this sounds like any good advice to give in a scary situation and I feel the school simply did what was natural in this situation.....sounds to me like many always want to create more drama in an already bad situation and try to blame anyone possible......yeah like the school could somehow be prepared for such a bad situation anyway.....no one could be prepared for this.

I hate to guess this early on however I am also curious to know more of the shooters background. I am willing to bet it turns out he was some troubled kid in and out of the system and taking a host of wonder drugs. Surely there were some signs or warnings and it would not be the first time the system has failed.

The news made me sick for the victims and families as in todays world kids should not have to worry about being killed while attending class. It seems the world is reaching a desperate situation that may call for desperate measures along the lines.

I also feel the media will surely follow with reports of how the police and agents somehow made it worse....it always happens that way and again I am sure all was done that could be done in such a horrible and unexpected situation. I learned long ago to never second guess anyone in a crisis situation without actually being there.

Bottom line is this is horrible and I am sure the school or any on the scene could have prepared for this. It is not every day you see death on such a large scale and shock sometimes delays things and also distorts many facts after the event. This was a bad thing done by a very bad person and we all have to find ways to cope with it.

If it does turn out the shooter had past problems maybe he should have been locked away somewhere before this could happen however once again society in general is often allowing bad people to walk among us for years. I have seen many suspect people later do bad things after they were handled very mildly and should have simply been locked away. It sounds harsh to many however desperate times mean desperate measures.

Once again this is all speculation on my part and without knowing the history of the shooter I can not say for sure if anything could have been done at all. Time will tell I suppose however we can all rest assured the blame game is far from over on this horrible event.

 

[Robocop]

Sorry system locked up....double post

 

[l1s125]

One of the professors held the door to his lecture hall just long enough for his students to escape out the windows. All of the students made it, but he didn't get out. [link]

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

To all the media saying, the LEO could have done this or that or the other, hind sight is always 20/20. When the actual event is going down, the LEO on scene have no idea of how many shooters, if there are snipers, bombs, etc. These LEO's have families/friends, do you expect them to just march in there not having any real idea of what is going on like they are invincible? Would you?

Mental or not, the shooter is a selfish coward, I hope he's getting it good right now in hades. What goes around comes around.

 

[highorder]

As far as "investigation" periods, the FBI and many states can now do them in less than 5 minutes, verify if you have a record or any questionable past. If questionable they put a hold on the sale. All that will do is make it harder for my to buy guns. Why would I need a "cooling off" period to buy my 10th? handgun?

The NICS (FBI) background check is National in scope and required for purchases from an FFL (licensed dealer); any additional periods are State laws.

you make a great point about new gun purchases with guns in the safe already...

 

[bwaites]

There will be a BUNCH of Monday morning quarterbacking about how the school and the LEO's could have done SOMETHING better, but the truth is that this was perhaps the most confusing of all the shootings.

An initial shooting and then a followup two hours later at another location?

How could the cops have done anything differently as far as trying to control witnesses at one site, then hearing about another shooting, wondering if the two are related, how many shooters are involved, etc.

The media is GREAT at making everyone but themselves look bad, and they are managing to smear everyone involved: The school should have done more, the school should have told us all to stay in, the school should have told us all to go home, the cops should have done this, the cops should have done that, etc.

There are some heroes, like the professor who barricaded the door so students could get out, and died to save them. We SHOULD be honoring the heroes, not looking for someone to blame about how poorly it was handled.

The only people who go charging into places where there are people shooting are our soldiers, (well, them and the guys in Hollyweird movies) and they have an idea about what is happening. NO ONE had any idea what was happening at VT, and all the rest of us are idiots in believing that WE could have handled anything differently.

MAYBE someone with a gun could have done something earlier, but we'll never KNOW, only speculate and assume, and both of those will not bring anyone back.

I have a son in law and daughter at school less than 100 miles from VT and I've received phone calls all day about their safety as friends panic and can't remember where my kids are. I live in the town where the 1996 school shooting took place, killing my next door neighbors son.

We've been through this, and no amount of finger pointing, or complaining about what SHOULD have been done will change anything. Blaming people for what happened doesn't and won't help. Working together WILL, if it is constructive and has an attitude of "what can I do better".

Bill

 

[metalhed]

bwaites -- Very well said...I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Wolfen]

I re-read my post and deleted it. I was upset when I wrote it. Because of personal circumstances I have strong feelings about school security. The entire event will be dissected by smarter people than myself.

Hopefully, the lessons to be learned will help stop something of this magnitude from happening again. I will continue to pray for the victims, their families as well as all the school staff.

 

[DonShock]

I see the majority of the replies aim (no phun intended) at a retaliative response from the victims to be......

It's not that the victims need to be able to retaliate against their attacker. It's that SOMEBODY needs to have the ability to STOP THE ATTACK and prevent there from being further victims. This case is a textbook example of why it's necessary to allow concealed carry by non-criminals who choose to take on responsibility for protecting themselves and others if the need arises. In all probability, nothing could have stopped the surprise attack on the first victims. But since nobody had the ability to stop the gunman from fleeing the area, he was able to make additional preperations over the next 2 hours and launch his second deadly assault. And it also demonstrates the inability of the police to be everywhere and be the sole protection for the entire populace. After the first shooting, they were present on campus, knew there was a shooting, and that the perpetrator was on the loose. And yet, just by going to the other side of the campus, the murderer had nothing to fear from the rest of the unarmed students and faculty. A good example of how guns in the hands of law abiding citizens can help occurred several ago at the Apalachian Law School where two armed citizens stopped the gunman after his initial attack and saved an unknown number of lives by preventing further attacks.

A good person can possess a gun for a lifetime without firing a shot, and nobody is in any danger from them. A bad person will break a thousand laws to get a gun and is a danger to us all, with or without a gun. If the good guy doesn't have a gun when he is attacked by the bad one with a gun, he is defenseless and dead along with whoever the attacker chooses next. If the good guy has a gun, he has the option of using it if the situaltion warrants and at least stands a chance of saving his life and others.

What is wrong with people these days......

They are raised to believe that all use of force is bad and to rely on only a select few trained professionals to stop the criminals. If even a tiny percentage had been encouraged to proudly defend themselves and others, the odds are a few among the hundreds of students in the classrooms would have had the ability to resist. Instead, their only option was to hunker down and hope the attacker would not choose them while they waited for rescue. Just as the attacker was able to trap his victims in an isolated classroom, a single brave individual with a weapon could have protected everyone in that same classroom by guarding the door.

A safer society doesn't require the complete abscense of guns nor that everybody be armed. It just requires a few armed responsible members who are willing and able to stop the criminals. And this can only be accomplished through being prepared and equipped to meet deadly force with deadly force immediately at the scene of the crime. Arrest and punishment does nothing to stop the criminal during the commission of the crime, the actions of good people can if society will let them have the means.

 

[Coop]

Why not place 'emergency firearms' in public locations? in a locked cabinet that can only be opened in such a way that a fingerprint or iris scan from the one that opens it is taken to prevent abuse. Also fit a GPS loacator beacon to the gun, so emergency response personnel immediatly know where they are needed.

 

[LowBat]

Since stopping the shooter in the #1 priority, and not necessarily killing him or her, would everyone agree we need something readily available to do so?

My first thought is some type of taser weapon. Yes they have limitations, and I'd be scared to death trying to defend myself against a gun attack with only a taser. It is however better than having nothing and simply watching others being mowed down before it's your turn to catch a bullet.

 

[Robocop]

I have found that people react differently to a deadly situation such as this and especially innocent students with no training or past exposure. Many will question why no one simply swarmed this man while he re-loaded and many seemed to just stand by like sheep and got killed......I have seen veteran officers simply "freeze" under gun fire while others reacted quickly and without fear. It is almost for many like the brain simply can not comprehend what is happening thus they go into a stupor or more like a coma not knowing what to do. Honestly a person never knows how they will react until it happens to them.

Simply being armed is better than nothing however again if an average citizen is armed there is a chance that they will still freeze and be little help at all.....it is not everyday one sees a situation like this. Bad things happen to good people all the time and in some cases there is simply no way to prevent it much less know it is coming. I worry nightly of what the world is coming to and even as an armed officer there are times when I still do not feel safe.

What if anything could be done here and what will be done in the future? I really do not like the way the media is surely going to spin this as I just watched one video report that made notice of the expiration of a high capacity ban on pistol clips allowing one to carry a few more rounds in their weapon......honestly does anyone feel this is the true problem here? Does it really matter if the man had 10 clips of 10 rounds or 10 clips of 15 rounds?

He reloaded several times according to witnesses and the amount of clips he carried or their capacity has nothing to do with this I believe....he was a determined killer plain and simple and if he used a baseball bat, or rifle, or even a black powder rifle he wanted to kill and killers always find a way. The media will surely try to sway this to the big bad world of gun ownership when it appears that no one else on the scene was armed other than the bad guy.

I do not feel this should spin out of control and cause a heated discussion on gun control but should focus more on people control. If from now on a man shows signs of this type behavior what will be done with that person.....when does it become ok to error on the side of caution and simply say enough is enough?

When does it become ok to actually say a person is truly beyond help and a menace rather than saying they are a poor victim and continue to try and rehabilitate them to society....when will it be ok to just start risking hurting a few peoples feelings and actually say they need to be locked away forever. When will it be ok to tell the media to try and be part of the solution rather than the problem....when will society begin to understand what the true problems are and just how far gone many issues are due to being politically correct.

Now I do know some crazy people can go for years acting normal and never stand out thus if they decide to react one day nothing can be done to prevent that. I do also know however that many of these crimes are performed by people that should have been dealt with long before and for many reasons have not. The doctors keep telling them medication and counseling is the key when someone should say you know what who cares they are possibly dangerous and we can not afford to guess here.

The courts keep saying overcrowding and regulations force many out of jail to the streets. The courts also say that a few anger classes are all that is required for one to avoid jail when time has proven that many repeat offenders and early release prisoners resort back to violent crime. Ok so after something like this would it not be ok to simply say enough....we will not try anymore to be politically correct and we want potential killers away from all of us.

Yes this sounds like a rant based solely on my guess that the shooter had a past history however whatever the case I am very angry that so many lost their lives. It was a cowardly act by a crazy person however enough is enough I believe. What will the nations schools do now in order to prevent this? Would it be politically correct to make schools like a prison with armed guards strip searching all students and any visitors? If it turns out this person was a student would it be ok then to actually discriminate against a person based on past mental or criminal records....kind of like saying we do not care what society says we do not allow a person with your past to be a student in our school period. If any school did that the media would run them over but I ask what is the world coming to when we surely must consider doing just that.

I can see it now where many would say... "hey just because he has a violent past he is now ok due to therapy and meds and you can not discriminate against him"....well I say BS in todays world one has to form an opinion on past and with todays death toll there can be no room for error or the hope that nothing will happen.

Looking back on today I am beginning to feel as if this was planned by this person and that it possibly could not have been prevented. I am very much looking forward to learning more of the actual shooter and how the media will spin his story.....all in all many families were destroyed today and for them I do hope that some things will be answered to. I really can not imagine a family member being sent away to school to prepare for their young lives only to be killed in the safety of their classroom.

 

[Daniel_sk]

If the students had guns to protect themselves, how would you be able to tell who is bad guy? They would be all running arround with weapons in their hands, and the police wouldn't be able to handle this situation...