Spellman transfer punch set

[precisionworks]

The transfer punches from R L Spellman are the best that can be bought, but they're pricey ... over $60 for the 28 punch set that goes to 1/2". The difference in Spellman punches & the Chinese knock off is that Spellman uses tool steel & through hardens the punch so they can be repointed. Chinese punches are made from mild steel & case hardened - once they're dull (which takes no time at all) they're done.

Found an eBay store that has the set for $10 plus shipping :thumbsup: My first purchase from this store, but only one negative with 512 positives.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Spellman-3-17-T...photoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

http://www.rlspellmanmfg.com/

 

[modamag]

Spelman definitely make some really good xfer set.

The blind xfer set are available @ Enco (505-0436) for decent price.

I also really like my Heimann threaded blind xfer. You can pick these up on fleebay for a really reasonable rate.

Unless you're milling alot of rework stuff, these are ... just nice to have.

 

[wquiles]

What is the difference between case hardened and through hardening?

How is each one done?

Will

 

[precisionworks]

What is the difference between case hardened and through hardening?

Case hardening (aka surface hardening) is a method that produces a hard but thin "case" on the outside of a mild steel part. Take any non-hardenable steel, like SAE1020 hot rolled, heat it red, dunk it in Kasenit, reheat red, dunk in cold water ... and the first .050" at the surface is now hardened to 65 HRc.

Through hardening requires a hardenable steel, like W1 or A2, which is brought to the transition temperature & then quenched. The material is the same hardness from surface to center.

For punches, this means that a through hardened item can be reground over & over. With a case hardened punch, the first attempt at grinding takes away all the case, leaving a dead soft tool which is good for nothing.

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=7626&title=KASENIT

 

[SafetyBob]

Thanks for the link Barry!!

Been wanting a set forever, but never broke down to get one. It's nice to know the difference between the good stuff and the "other" stuff.

Bob E.

 

[wquiles]

Case hardening (aka surface hardening) is a method that produces a hard but thin "case" on the outside of a mild steel part. Take any non-hardenable steel, like SAE1020 hot rolled, heat it red, dunk it in Kasenit, reheat red, dunk in cold water ... and the first .050" at the surface is now hardened to 65 HRc.

Through hardening requires a hardenable steel, like W1 or A2, which is brought to the transition temperature & then quenched. The material is the same hardness from surface to center.

For punches, this means that a through hardened item can be reground over & over. With a case hardened punch, the first attempt at grinding takes away all the case, leaving a dead soft tool which is good for nothing.

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=7626&title=KASENIT

Awesome - thanks much for the detailed explanation :thumbsup:

By the way, I bought some W1 drill rod to experiment with the water hardening and oven quenching - what is the typical source to get the steel "red hot"? Would a simple propane torch be enough?

Will

 

[precisionworks]

Would a simple propane torch be enough?

A propane torch puts out enough heat for the smaller diameters, like 1/2" & under, and it doesn't take too long to get to the red stage. If you want to through harden, hold the flame on the W1 for a minute or two to make sure it is red hot to the center of the rod ... or just get the outside red & quench, which leaves a less hard but tougher center (for a striking tool like a punch or chisel).

As the size gets to 3/4" and above, a propane torch takes quite a while & a MAPP gas torch is better. Or a welding torch with a rosebud tip, if you have that.

 

[wquiles]

A propane torch puts out enough heat for the smaller diameters, like 1/2" & under, and it doesn't take too long to get to the red stage. If you want to through harden, hold the flame on the W1 for a minute or two to make sure it is red hot to the center of the rod ... or just get the outside red & quench, which leaves a less hard but tougher center (for a striking tool like a punch or chisel).

As the size gets to 3/4" and above, a propane torch takes quite a while & a MAPP gas torch is better. Or a welding torch with a rosebud tip, if you have that.

Right now I only have access to a propane torch, but I am dealing with 5/8", 1/2", and 1/8", so that should be enough for now

By the way, remember that really big 1" boring bar with the round cutting bit? I mentioned earlier that I though that the cutting bit was a tad "soft". Now that I am playing with the drill rods I got from Enco, I realize that the so called cutting bit was simply a short length of 1/8" drill rod. Unfortunately it was never hardened, which is why I noted it was a tad soft while doing the inside boring, requiring frequent re-sharpening. Now with the "procedure" for through hardening at hand, I am really looking forward to using that boring bar, and making more of my own cutting bits for the lathe and mill

Will

 

[precisionworks]

looking forward to using that boring bar, and making more of my own cutting bits

After a cold water quench, W1 is super hard ... 67 HRc, which a sharp, new file will not touch (sometimes called file skip hard). It would probably work fine for a boring tool where there's a continuous cut, as there are no shock loads or interrupted cuts. If you find that the point snaps off too easily, temper it back to 58-60 HRc by reheating with the torch until the steel justs starts to color brown or blue, and let air cool. A file will just cut that, and the tool will be tougher, but need more frequent sharpening.

 

[wquiles]

Barry,

I am trying to put your good advice to action. This I ground a week or two ago. My very first hand ground, DIY cutting tool. This one a 60Deg external threading tool, made from 1/2" W1 drill rod.

Top:

Back:

Side profile:

And ready to try the through hardening!

Ready to start:

Starting to heat the steel:

Starting to get red hot:

and watter quenched:

I also did 3 new 1/8" tips for that 1" dia internal boring tool (original on far left), to try different things/angles/tips:

and after hardening (next to a 4xx CNMG insert designed for Aluminum for comparison):

I have not done yet the tempering - I want to try them first "extra hard". Sure enough, a Nicholson ******* file won't cut them - just barely removes the black soot from the finish!.
One thing I love about these are the various colors in the shank - that looks really cool


Although I got the angle fairly close, it is not aligned well with the shank's centerline, as the threads on this test piece are not even. Still, it was fun and cheap to learn something new.

Will

 

[precisionworks]

Nice job ... those threads look great :thumbsup:

Tool steels, especially W1, are the easiest to harden, but some non tool steels can be hardened - any steel containing more than 25 carbon points will harden to some extent. 1144 Stressproof is nice for pry bars, heavy punches, bull pins, etc., since it doesn't get super hard (only 44 carbon points), but the resulting tool is tough as nails. 4140 Chrome Moly is similar.

Even mild steel, like 1018, can be case hardened with Kasenit - but the quench after the Kasenit coating is violent & sprays hot, dirty water everywhere. It does work where nothing else (safe) will do the job.

 

[MoonRise]

Will,

Another (relatively) easy way to temper hardened steel is to use an oven.

You just put the hardened steel pieces in the oven, then turn the oven on and set the desired temperature, let 'bake' for the desired time at the desired temperature, turn off oven and let cool. Done.

This way you avoid guessing at what temperature you ended up heating the metal to when using a torch to temper.

W1? Try an oven temper at 350F for an hour. That should smoothly temper the steel to the high Rc 50's / low Rc 60's.

The higher the tempering temperature, the lower the hardness of the steel will be. The lower the hardness of the steel, the tougher it will be (than the same steel at a higher hardness).

In general, hardness > brittleness. So hard means brittle and brittle can snap/crack/shatter at failure.

Toughness means the steel "yields" instead of snapping/shattering. Yes, the quotes mean something as I am listing a definition for "yield". Yield means the steel bends and deforms instead of snapping.



Also, I would suggest getting a slightly larger water container than the CoolWhip and make it metal as well. A larger metal coffee or food can is common. You avoid possibly melting or burning the plastic.

 

[Anglepoise]

Although I got the angle fairly close, it is not aligned well with the shank's centerline, as the threads on this test piece are not even.
Will

Your tool looks great and the tiny angle deviation from 60° should not be making the threads uneven as in the pic. Odd.

 

[precisionworks]

A larger metal coffee or food can is common. You avoid possibly melting or burning the plastic.

Before W1, my most used tool steel was O1, which requires a warm oil quench. The container was one of those red, Folgers, plastic jars that coffee comes in, probably two quarts. A red hot bar of O1 was plunged into the oil, which immediately caught fire.

Went to a metal can after that

 

[MoonRise]

Ahh, Barry, you had the fun of red-hot metal PLUS oil PLUS a plastic container.

is right!

 

[PEU]

Last week I needed to sharpen a bit to 38 degrees, and I was presented with the proper tool for the job, an UNIVERSAL BEVEL PROTRACTOR:

I fell in love with it so after looking a little I found a HK dealer that stocks it at a decent price: http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-140/320-DEGREE-UNIVERSAL-BEVEL/Detail
Then looked at their site and made an interesting list of tools I will be purchasing.

The interesting note is that I wanted an item not listed in their store (a R8 boring head set) so I asked Heine, the shop owner, if he can search one so I can purchase all the items I want from the same dealer and save time and shipping charges. He happily agreed to search for one, asked me for a couple of weeks until he returns to HK but he was willing to help me.
So... in about a month I will have a nice set of tools and stuff can't wait (but I learned to...)


Pablo

 

[precisionworks]

Pablo,

That is a beautiful protractor ... I can't believe they sell for $23.00 :thumbsup:

 

[wquiles]

You guys will have to show me additional pictures of how exactly you use such a contraption :devil:

Will

 

[PEU]

The protractor is actually two removable parts, the curved part and a 90 deg piece (there is also an extender but it does not add to the explanation)
Take a look at the pic:

Yellow is a removable extension
Blue is also removable, you can put the short part facing up to form different angles.
Red is the protractor (duh) if you click on the image from the seller site you will see an oversized photo, you will see that each division is marked with different angles, for example: 50/140/230/320
Black arrow allows you to fix the protractor at the desired angle
Light green arrow allows you to fix the 90 degrees angle into place.
Your angle is measured between dark green sides


Pablo

 

[StrikerDown]

Great explanation Pablo, Now stamp a Starrett on it and you can sell it for $923.00