Brigadier
Enlightened
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SureFire 6P Over Clones- I'm a Believer
- Thread starter My3kidsfather
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Techmedic
Enlightened
My first SF was a 6P; I was instantly converted having been a gaglight collector, and believing a few other plastic "must be good" lights were indeed good.
Right now I have three plastic lights sitting on my dresser the kids placed there because they need service. My SF's get the once over annually, new o-ring lube, cleaning, check/change batts, etc...
I keep buying those cheapos for my boys but they go bad. Now with the LED versions and my fear of going through 123's faster than chocolate chip cookies with boys at home is greatly reduced, I may get my two boys their own SF. Oops, can't forget the wife.
Until you actually own a SF 6P or better, you won't understand, IMHO. My 6P is getting a P60L and Z59 this year.
This is not implying lesser expensive lights do not have a place in this world. My van's trauma bag and oxygen bag each a brinkman maxfire in them. My nightstand has a minigaglite with a nite ize luxeon in it.
Right now I have three plastic lights sitting on my dresser the kids placed there because they need service. My SF's get the once over annually, new o-ring lube, cleaning, check/change batts, etc...
I keep buying those cheapos for my boys but they go bad. Now with the LED versions and my fear of going through 123's faster than chocolate chip cookies with boys at home is greatly reduced, I may get my two boys their own SF. Oops, can't forget the wife.
Until you actually own a SF 6P or better, you won't understand, IMHO. My 6P is getting a P60L and Z59 this year.
This is not implying lesser expensive lights do not have a place in this world. My van's trauma bag and oxygen bag each a brinkman maxfire in them. My nightstand has a minigaglite with a nite ize luxeon in it.
That's some beautiful country up there as I've got relatives in Calgary...freakin cold in the winters though. I've brought one or two of my flashlights up there during my annual summer visits...guess I should be lucky the TSA hasn't confiscated any of mines yet, hehe. Oh an by the way, I also own a UF Alpha-C1 too.
Not wanting to stir the possum even further, how many of buy American die hard for flashlight are using computer that are made in the U.S.
Alan
Delta
Enlightened
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- 432
I was just kidding with the crying eagle, btw.
There's nothing wrong with buying any of these lights. It's a global economy. USUALLY (there are two notable exceptions here) we are putting money in american pockets regardless of who made the light. The only thing I think is kind of sh!tty is when chinese makers do direct knock offs...like the infamous U2 clone. That ain't cool. But even though the 6P may have been the progenitor of handheld tactical lights, you can't hate on Fenix or Lumapower, or Ultrafire or anyone else because they want to make similar items.
Remember, COMPETITION DRIVES INNOVATION. The more people try to make the biggest, best, coolest light out there, the better it is for us, the end user. What if Surefire had no competiton? What resaon would they have to improve? Or anyone for that matter? Cops would still be toting around 4 D-cell maglights.
I've read so many arguments over Surefire and Chinese makers, and Fenix vs Surefire but I still don't get the big deal. The only thing I can grasp at is what someone else mentioned - elitism. "Mine is better than yours because it cost more!" Bullcrap. I have seen many, many posts and threads. Surefires break just like everyone else's does. And I've had Fenix's and other lights last just as long and perform just as well. They are machines. Machines break. The better you take care of them, the longer they will last. I see a lot of people have material issues with certain lights on here, but I wonder if that isn't because we CPFers inherently like to tinker with every damn light we own...we have to take it apart, piece by pice and examine it, modify it, whatever.
Look at it this way: Without the 6P, we wouldn't have most of what we have today. And without these new lights pushing the envelope, we wouldn't have so much cool new stuff. Maybe Surefire never would have created a U2, a Kroma, or an Optimus. Everyone would still be happy with their crusty old 6Ps.
This is the case in every market, in every industry there is. Flashlights are a very small part of the grand scheme. There is something for every taste, for every use, and every budget. We should be thankful for that. How boring would it be if all there was to choose from was Surefire?
Lighten up.
There's nothing wrong with buying any of these lights. It's a global economy. USUALLY (there are two notable exceptions here) we are putting money in american pockets regardless of who made the light. The only thing I think is kind of sh!tty is when chinese makers do direct knock offs...like the infamous U2 clone. That ain't cool. But even though the 6P may have been the progenitor of handheld tactical lights, you can't hate on Fenix or Lumapower, or Ultrafire or anyone else because they want to make similar items.
Remember, COMPETITION DRIVES INNOVATION. The more people try to make the biggest, best, coolest light out there, the better it is for us, the end user. What if Surefire had no competiton? What resaon would they have to improve? Or anyone for that matter? Cops would still be toting around 4 D-cell maglights.
I've read so many arguments over Surefire and Chinese makers, and Fenix vs Surefire but I still don't get the big deal. The only thing I can grasp at is what someone else mentioned - elitism. "Mine is better than yours because it cost more!" Bullcrap. I have seen many, many posts and threads. Surefires break just like everyone else's does. And I've had Fenix's and other lights last just as long and perform just as well. They are machines. Machines break. The better you take care of them, the longer they will last. I see a lot of people have material issues with certain lights on here, but I wonder if that isn't because we CPFers inherently like to tinker with every damn light we own...we have to take it apart, piece by pice and examine it, modify it, whatever.
Look at it this way: Without the 6P, we wouldn't have most of what we have today. And without these new lights pushing the envelope, we wouldn't have so much cool new stuff. Maybe Surefire never would have created a U2, a Kroma, or an Optimus. Everyone would still be happy with their crusty old 6Ps.
This is the case in every market, in every industry there is. Flashlights are a very small part of the grand scheme. There is something for every taste, for every use, and every budget. We should be thankful for that. How boring would it be if all there was to choose from was Surefire?
Lighten up.
Delta
Enlightened
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- Apr 19, 2004
- Messages
- 432
BTW...I'll buy an American car when they are worth the money they cost...and my Honda was built by Americans 30 miles away in Marysville, OH. My other car, a Toyota is running like a champ at over 100,000 miles. Lets see a Ford do that. It's almost like....Honda and Toyota are the Surefires of the car world.....
Anyway...this thread is supposed to be about flashlights not cars.
Anyway...this thread is supposed to be about flashlights not cars.
Thinking about things a little differently if Surefire was an Australian company I would feel exactly the same as the vast number of Surefire supporters here.
The problem is these day in Australia everything from Flashlights to clothing it's just about impossible to buy locally made, Australia was once very self-sufficient manufacturing everything from clothing to missiles.
I ain't so any more:mecry:
Good on you Surefire supporters buy American while you still can. :thumbsup:
Norm
The problem is these day in Australia everything from Flashlights to clothing it's just about impossible to buy locally made, Australia was once very self-sufficient manufacturing everything from clothing to missiles.
I ain't so any more:mecry:
Good on you Surefire supporters buy American while you still can. :thumbsup:
Norm
As a college student, I owned a black E2. I was even able to afford - gasp - Sure-Fire batteries. :devil:
The cheaper Chinese batteries and lights weren't around back then and frankly I don't believe I was missing out on anything.
Unemployed doesn't sound like a fixed income, it sounds like no income.
My3kidsfather
Enlightened
Some of us up here were laughing about a coworker who had said he "used his lawnmover on Saturday, and his snowblower on Sunday".. we are just digging out of a snow storm here. Gone from no snow to 18" over night. Calgary, eh? Short summer there.
Brigadier
Enlightened
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2008
- Messages
- 900
My other car, a Toyota is running like a champ at over 100,000 miles. Lets see a Ford do that. It's almost like....Honda and Toyota are the Surefires of the car world.....
Well, my 1990 Astro is running just fine @ 205k mi on the original engine. Last spring I sold my still running @ 279k mi[orig. engine] 1985 Z28 to a young Marine. He drove it away, leaving rubber as he went....
Now back to our regularly scheduled program.......
Fusion_m8
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm a big Surefire fan myself, however for us fans not living in the US, buying a Surefire can cost us an arm or a leg: just check out the local prices in Australia, I'm sure the Americans will agree that the prices paid in Australia is lunacy compared to what they retail for in the US.
Thats why many CPFers who are not living in the US, buy the cheaper Chinese made clones found on DX, KD or ebay. Its a much affordable way to the world of flashlight collecting. I've just purchased a Solarforce L2 from ebay for $20 delivered to my door and I can tell you that compared to a 6P, there's little difference in quality, but a huge difference in price. The 6P would have cost me at least $65 delivered. Of course, the build quality of the 6P IS BETTER than the L2 thats for sure, but is it 3 times as good? No way, not in my books.
For newbies getting into the hobby, its like getting our first car when we first got our drivers license, we buy a cheap, disposable car as opposed to getting a brand new Porsche or BMW.
Thats why many CPFers who are not living in the US, buy the cheaper Chinese made clones found on DX, KD or ebay. Its a much affordable way to the world of flashlight collecting. I've just purchased a Solarforce L2 from ebay for $20 delivered to my door and I can tell you that compared to a 6P, there's little difference in quality, but a huge difference in price. The 6P would have cost me at least $65 delivered. Of course, the build quality of the 6P IS BETTER than the L2 thats for sure, but is it 3 times as good? No way, not in my books.
For newbies getting into the hobby, its like getting our first car when we first got our drivers license, we buy a cheap, disposable car as opposed to getting a brand new Porsche or BMW.
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270winchester
Flashlight Enthusiast
My Toyota was made in Fremont. All of our Toyotas were made in USA. All but one of the "domestic" cars we owned were made in Canada.
270winchester
Flashlight Enthusiast
As a college student, I owned a black E2. I was even able to afford - gasp - Sure-Fire batteries. :devil:
The cheaper Chinese batteries and lights weren't around back then and frankly I don't believe I was missing out on anything.
Unemployed doesn't sound like a fixed income, it sounds like no income.
I'm still (sort of) in college. I have a job. It pays me food, rent, and hobbies.
I know, gasp, college students with a job. THe horror!!!
270winchester
Flashlight Enthusiast
generic808
Enlightened
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- Jan 19, 2008
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I can slowly see this thread going down the drain! For those who think the clones are just as good; they're not! I strip and polish SF's along with many Chinese made lights as a hobby, and I can tell you guys from first hand experience, the Al, ano, knurling, threading, and overall build quality on the SF's are far superior than the clones.
Some may ask, "is it worth 3 times as much?", and I can honestly answer, YES, it is. A 6P has ridden on my duty belt since the academy, and to this day, still rides with me shotgun. I honestly believe it is the most reliable light ever made. I've never had any fail on me, and I own 6 of them in all different variations.
Some may ask, "is it worth 3 times as much?", and I can honestly answer, YES, it is. A 6P has ridden on my duty belt since the academy, and to this day, still rides with me shotgun. I honestly believe it is the most reliable light ever made. I've never had any fail on me, and I own 6 of them in all different variations.
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AFAustin
Flashlight Enthusiast
Well, I appreciate the difference in SF quality, but also like a good buy. I bought a NIB 6P on ebay not long ago for $38 shipped. I sold the P60 lamp and netted $5. I bought a 3SD Q5 drop in module from Deerelight for $35 shipped. So I now have a terrific 3 level 6P-on-steroids for $68. One of the best bang for the buck lights I own. And yes, the 6P build quality is obvious.
For me xenon Solarforce L2 ordered from eBay costs only several $ more then shipping of Surefire P6 bought from US. And policy of Surefire to restrict international sales from US stores makes decision even simpler. Of course a lot of sellers still sell them but I don't see any reason not to buy from my regular places and looking for somebody who would be so kind to sell Surefire to me. For our local prices I won't even think about buying Surefire.
By the way, why do you compare Solarforce L2 with P6 although it's copy P6D which costs about $25 more?
By the way, why do you compare Solarforce L2 with P6 although it's copy P6D which costs about $25 more?
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270winchester
Flashlight Enthusiast
I don't own a land cruiser(nor can I afford to feed a land cruiser). Where did you get that? When I say "our" I don't mean "all Toyotas sold in the US". We have one Corolla and two Camrys in the family.
Besides if I wanted a truck I would get a Chevy, and we(as in our house hold, not the entire US in case anyone gets confused) already own a Chevy truck.
my car at 200k miles:
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Hey I never said they were as good, I just said they're not THAT far off and a definite bang for the buck. I'd say if you've got a legitimate use like law enforcement and such, by all means use the genuine article. If you're a casual to moderate user and/or you're on a budget, using a 6P clone like the Solarforce L2 is just fine...well that's one point of view I've read here that I agree with anyway.
Rational, rationalize...semantics.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semantics
And yes, I do take it as it is. Quit making this political dude, this is forum about our wonderful hobby of flashlights and not politics. If you expect people to respect your opinions, you should make an honest effort to respect theirs without being condescending. Saying something like: "ok I can see your point of view, but I think..." or something to that effect would be better received than the way you've been going about it here.
Back on topic: Clones are are cool too! :thumbsup:
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