Surefire 6P questions

[michiganstud]

I'm a LEO and have been posting on my current platform for my belt light. I have two that I use that fit the same holster (pictured). While I like my Streamlight Protac HLx, I do like my 6P more. It just fits in the hand better, sleeker and the tail clicky is preferred over the Protac.

Having said that, they are both about the same lumens, same battery (18650, my 6P is bored out for it) but my 6P just gets hotter (than blazing fire) than the other after about 20 minutes. Currently running a sportac 1,000 lumen drop in.

Things that are important....

1. Single mode
2. Brightness
3. Long run time
4. Heat control
5. Using 18650 batts

So here are my two thoughts....

1. What's a better drop in for my 6P that's bright (at least 600 to 800 lumens) that won't heat up?

Or

2. Should I buy the new 6Px 600 lumen model and give that a whirl? The only drawback is going to CR123As.

Are there other battery options that are rechargeable that will fit the place of 2 CR123As??

Can the new 6px be bored out to accept 18650 Batts? Does anyone do that??

 

[bykfixer]

The sportac is likely from an era where it held steady at 1000 lumens. A new cryos head would help. Oveready sells them. If you holster bezel up it won't seem like any change.

Cryos Cooling Head!!! SureFire Compatible.

So with all of these Super High Powered drop-ins that Oveready is offering, how do you keep them cool? Well the answer to that is an easy one when you...

www.edcforums.com

Or you can go with a new drop in from Malkoff called M61. He is now using an SST-20 LED that has a nice throw very much like your old P60 did but with 450 lumens instead of 65 or so. It holds 450 until the battery can no longer provide the required voltage then like the old light bulb light has a nice long taper of dimming instead of sudden darkness.

M61, M61L, and M61LL Drop-in to fit Surefire and Malkoff – Malkoff Devices

This is the Malkoff Devices P60 style Drop-in LED Conversion with solid brass heatsink construction. The LED is a White (5700K) Luminous SST-20. The output is 450 lumens. The reflector offers a very nice balance between throw and spill. It is an outstanding room lighter and short to medium...

malkoffdevices.com

You can use a 16650 battery if you opt for the 6Px or some SureFire RCR batteries but runtime would be a lot less using the RCR's. It can probably be bored out too.

 

[michiganstud]

The sportac is likely from an era where it held steady at 1000 lumens. A new cryos head would help. Oveready sells them. If you holster bezel up it won't seem like any change.

Cryos Cooling Head!!! SureFire Compatible.

So with all of these Super High Powered drop-ins that Oveready is offering, how do you keep them cool? Well the answer to that is an easy one when you...

www.edcforums.com

Or you can go with a new drop in from Malkoff called M61. He is now using an SST-20 LED that has a nice throw very much like your old P60 did but with 450 lumens instead of 65 or so. It holds 450 until the battery can no longer provide the required voltage then like the old light bulb light has a nice long taper of dimming instead of sudden darkness.

M61, M61L, and M61LL Drop-in to fit Surefire and Malkoff – Malkoff Devices

This is the Malkoff Devices P60 style Drop-in LED Conversion with solid brass heatsink construction. The LED is a White (5700K) Luminous SST-20. The output is 450 lumens. The reflector offers a very nice balance between throw and spill. It is an outstanding room lighter and short to medium...

malkoffdevices.com

You can use a 16650 battery if you opt for the 6Px or some SureFire RCR batteries but runtime would be a lot less using the RCR's. It can probably be bored out too.

Nice options!!! I do like the new head, that's ideal for sure.

450 seems low, but if it's a constant 450 with no step down I'm in. Because the 600 lumen 6Px will undoubtedly have that much in step down.

 

[michiganstud]

The sportac is likely from an era where it held steady at 1000 lumens. A new cryos head would help. Oveready sells them. If you holster bezel up it won't seem like any change.

Cryos Cooling Head!!! SureFire Compatible.

So with all of these Super High Powered drop-ins that Oveready is offering, how do you keep them cool? Well the answer to that is an easy one when you...

www.edcforums.com

Or you can go with a new drop in from Malkoff called M61. He is now using an SST-20 LED that has a nice throw very much like your old P60 did but with 450 lumens instead of 65 or so. It holds 450 until the battery can no longer provide the required voltage then like the old light bulb light has a nice long taper of dimming instead of sudden darkness.

M61, M61L, and M61LL Drop-in to fit Surefire and Malkoff – Malkoff Devices

This is the Malkoff Devices P60 style Drop-in LED Conversion with solid brass heatsink construction. The LED is a White (5700K) Luminous SST-20. The output is 450 lumens. The reflector offers a very nice balance between throw and spill. It is an outstanding room lighter and short to medium...

malkoffdevices.com

You can use a 16650 battery if you opt for the 6Px or some SureFire RCR batteries but runtime would be a lot less using the RCR's. It can probably be bored out too.

Having looked at the 16650 batt option, I found an Orbtronic (my go to brand) and that would fit in the 6Px 600 lumen light.

Now the question.....they are 2500 mAh. How does that relate to 2 CR123A surefire batts? Will the 16650 last longer or about the same runtime?

 

[Olumin]

With this kind of form factor I recommend staying around 500 lumens if you want good runime & something that wont burn your hand. Higher brightness drop ins over 600 lumens or so throttle output after a few minutes to prevent overheating. What lights of this size lack is sufficient thermal mass, they cannot take enough heat to be able to keep 1000 lumens constantly.

like bykfixer mentioned; Malkoff makes great drop ins around 500 lumens that dont have step-downs. I also recommend going that route. Something with a 21700 might keep 1000 lumens, but I couldn't tell you any single output lights in that category that work like your 6P. Malkoff makes a 21700 battery tube, maybe some head/drop-in combo might give you what you want. They tell the M61 HOT head which is over 700 lumens, but personally I have no experience with it or how flat/long it runs on a 21700.

 

[chillinn]

It's perfectly ok, but we've been here before:

To my question....it got so hot I could barely hold the light in my hand. I swear I have burns from it. Are there any new developments on a p60 sized drop in that are high lumens (800 - 1000) that won't run so hot? One mode?

I really thought kerneldrop's comment was insightful.

800-1,000 lumens will get hot.

I thought someone suggested more mass for better heat absorption with brighter, hotter lights, but I don't see it there, so must have been a different thread. Hot flashlights are not just uncomfortable and painful, they can give you degreed burns, so this is an important topic.

If my suggestion of wrapping Paracord is too, say, Bohemian, surely there are other thermal insulators that won't change the feel of the light. There are ultra-thin thermal insulators on rolls of tape (for hot and cold pipe), but you only would need a little piece. You would probably want to put a lot of holes in it so the heat could escape. It is amazing what you can get for free when you don't need a lot of it, such as asking for samples. A local hardware might just provide a small strip. It might not be pretty, but it shouldn't destroy the feel, and should be effective, so long as care is taken to allow the heat go somewhere, and anywhere but into your hand.

 

[michiganstud]

It's perfectly ok, but we've been here before:



I really thought kerneldrop's comment was insightful.



I thought someone suggested more mass for better heat absorption with brighter, hotter lights, but I don't see it there, so must have been a different thread. Hot flashlights are not just uncomfortable and painful, they can give you degreed burns, so this is an important topic.

If my suggestion of wrapping Paracord is too, say, Bohemian, surely there are other thermal insulators that won't change the feel of the light. There are ultra-thin thermal insulators on rolls of tape (for hot and cold pipe), but you only would need a little piece. You would probably want to put a lot of holes in it so the heat could escape. It is amazing what you can get for free when you don't need a lot of it, such as asking for samples. A local hardware might just provide a small strip. It might not be pretty, but it shouldn't destroy the feel, and should be effective, so long as care is taken to allow the heat go somewhere, and anywhere but into your hand.

Yes, we have been here before. But I'm armed with new information, so new questions arose. If my redundancy is not desirable I really don't know what to say.

I posted a new thread so the topic could get fresh discussion with the new ideas. New threads breathe new discussion topics.

 

[chillinn]

If my redundancy is not desirable I really don't know what to say.

It's perfectly ok,

...

this is an important topic.

I'm going to have to insist that you do what you want.

 

[michiganstud]

With this kind of form factor I recommend staying around 500 lumens if you want good runime & something that wont burn your hand. Higher brightness drop ins over 600 lumens or so throttle output after a few minutes to prevent overheating. What lights of this size lack is sufficient thermal mass, they cannot take enough heat to be able to keep 1000 lumens constantly.

like bykfixer mentioned; Malkoff makes great drop ins around 500 lumens that dont have step-downs. I also recommend going that route. Something with a 21700 might keep 1000 lumens, but I couldn't tell you any single output lights in that category that work like your 6P. Malkoff makes a 21700 battery tube, maybe some head/drop-in combo might give you what you want. They tell the M61 HOT head which is over 700 lumens, but personally I have no experience with it or how flat/long it runs on a 21700.

With his response and yours I'm highly considering getting the 16650 battery and going with either...

1. 6Px - single mode 600 lumen light.

Or

2. G2X - Dual mode LE version. It starts out again high, then goes to low!!! I like that idea. All other options start at low and go to high.

So the questions that remain are battery life - which is longer the cr123a or the 16650 2500?

Also I've heard that aluminum lights run longer because of the better heat management?

You guys are a wealth of information and I appreciate it.

 

[michiganstud]

I'm going to have to insist that you do what you want.

Ha ha, thank you.

 

[Olumin]

So the questions that remain are battery life - which is longer the cr123a or the 16650 2500?

Also I've heard that aluminum lights run longer because of the better heat management?

All being equal, 16650 should give a bit longer runtime, albeit at sometimes slightly lower brightness (lower voltage). Current draw also usually goes down with lower voltage, but it depends on the individual driver. Constant brightness regulated lights will increase current draw as voltage drops to maintain equal output. Such lights are regulated to a certain minimum voltage (like 3.4V for a M61), below that, current (& with that, brightness) will again drop off or it stops working entirely. Individual cr123s have roughly 1500mAh, since they are run in series voltage doubles but capacity stays the same (parallel doubles capacity but not voltage).

Yes, full plastic lights like a surefire G2 will be worse at conducting heat & will have less thermal mass. Lights with a aluminium head (like a G2X) or full aluminium lights like your 6P will be better. Its generally recommended not to run high output drop-ins in full plastic lights due to risk of melting the head or lens.

 

[michiganstud]

All being equal, 16650 should give a bit longer runtime, albeit at sometimes slightly lower brightness (lower voltage). Current draw also usually goes down with lower voltage, but it depends on the individual driver. Constant brightness regulated lights will increase current draw as voltage drops to maintain equal output. Such lights are regulated to a certain minimum voltage (like 3.4V for a M61), below that, current (& with that, brightness) will again drop off or it stops working entirely. Individual cr123s have roughly 1500mAh, since they are run in series voltage doubles but capacity stays the same (parallel doubles capacity but not voltage).

Yes, full plastic lights like a surefire G2 will be worse at conducting heat & will have less thermal mass. Lights with a aluminium head (like a G2X) or full aluminium lights like your 6P will be better. Its generally recommended not to run high output drop-ins in full plastic lights due to risk of melting the head or lens.

The G2x has an aluminum head?


Edit .....that it does! Did not know that. This light sounds perfect. I like the high to low. I work a university, so when in the dorms or apartments I can switch it down when I just need light tk read IDs and write down info. But I've never seen a police quality light start out on high, to low.


"A click-style tactical tailcap switch controls the light's output—simply press or click to unleash all 600 lumens in momentary- or constant-on mode, an important feature for law enforcement applications where instant access to maximum output provides a tactical advantage. Return to off and press or click again within two seconds for G2X LE's lower-output 15-lumen beam.

Featuring a lightweight, durable Nitrolon polymer body designed for a secure hold, a Mil-Spec hard-anodized aluminum head, and O-rings and gasket seals to keep out moisture and dust, the G2X LE is as rugged as it is functional. It makes an ideal duty light for anyone who wears a badge—or a perfect everyday-carry light for anyone who demands a professional-grade flashlight that'll take on just about any situation."

 

[Olumin]

G2X is one of the best (if not the best) lights surefire still makes. Very practical & comfortable to use with a good UI and stable output. A low mode of some kind is very useful, even if just for extending battery life. 1000 lumens are great but like you said, if looking at something close up, like paperwork or a note block, thats gonna get old real quick. G2X PRO is low/High, G2X TAC is High only, G2X LE is High/low.

Only downside is it doasnt take 18650s. I dont know about boring, never heard of someone doing that to a g2x. 6px or Fury, yes, I know its done on those. Malkoff MD2 of cause already takes 18650s, also comes with a Hi/low switch for a low mode + options for neutral or warm HCRI light. Much heavier tho, but essentially indestructible.

 

[knucklegary]

The G2x has an aluminum head?


Edit .....that it does! Did not know that. This light sounds perfect. I like the high to low. I work a university, so when in the dorms or apartments I can switch it down when I just need light tk read IDs and write down info. But I've never seen a police quality light start out on high, to low.


"A click-style tactical tailcap switch controls the light's output—simply press or click to unleash all 600 lumens in momentary- or constant-on mode, an important feature for law enforcement applications where instant access to maximum output provides a tactical advantage. Return to off and press or click again within two seconds for G2X LE's lower-output 15-lumen beam.

Featuring a lightweight, durable Nitrolon polymer body designed for a secure hold, a Mil-Spec hard-anodized aluminum head, and O-rings and gasket seals to keep out moisture and dust, the G2X LE is as rugged as it is functional. It makes an ideal duty light for anyone who wears a badge—or a perfect everyday-carry light for anyone who demands a professional-grade flashlight that'll take on just about any situation."

Can't go wrong with G2X..
Plus, Thyrm breakaway clip is sized to molle straps..

Carry both SF, one on your vest as backup

 

[CarpentryHero]

People don't bore the 6px or G2x because the heads are glued on, they can be disassembled but it's not easy (amount of glue may vary from one persons to another)

Otherwise the G2x LE is pretty great, it won't be all that throwy as it's running an XML sized led.
If you were gonna go with a dropin with your og, something with a smooth reflector and either an Osram or Xpp led would be a great choice.
Vinh and a few other moddders still make dropins when asked.
Then you could pick if you want a single mode. I believe theirs a tutorial on how to wrap aluminum or copper around your dropin for a tighter contact and better heat sinc as well.

 

[kerneldrop]

G2X is one of the best (if not the best) lights surefire still makes. Very practical & comfortable to use with a good UI and stable output. A low mode of some kind is very useful, even if just for extending battery life. 1000 lumens are great but like you said, if looking at something close up, like paperwork or a note block, thats gonna get old real quick. G2X PRO is low/High, G2X TAC is High only, G2X LE is High/low.

Only downside is it doasnt take 18650s. I dont know about boring, never heard of someone doing that to a g2x. 6px or Fury, yes, I know its done on those. Malkoff MD2 of cause already takes 18650s, also comes with a Hi/low switch for a low mode + options for neutral or warm HCRI light. Much heavier tho, but essentially indestructible.

Automatic watch cleaning videos and luxury watch videos have been popping up on my FB video feed.
Not sure why but that's what the algorithms are sending my way.
The cleaning videos are neat.

 

[kerneldrop]

People don't bore the 6px or G2x because the heads are glued on, they can be disassembled but it's not easy (amount of glue may vary from one persons to another)

Otherwise the G2x LE is pretty great, it won't be all that throwy as it's running an XML sized led.
If you were gonna go with a dropin with your og, something with a smooth reflector and either an Osram or Xpp led would be a great choice.
Vinh and a few other moddders still make dropins when asked.
Then you could pick if you want a single mode. I believe theirs a tutorial on how to wrap aluminum or copper around your dropin for a tighter contact and better heat sinc as well.

I wouldn't mind getting one to try to mod it...but dang that's $90 just to have fun. Yellow is $60 and that would be OK with me.
Maybe I can find one on the used market.
I have the stuff to safely heat it to soften up the glue.
Wilton vise and a strap wrench can hopefully handle the rest.

 

[Dave D]

With his response and yours I'm highly considering getting the 16650 battery and going with either...

1. 6Px - single mode 600 lumen light.

Or

2. G2X - Dual mode LE version. It starts out again high, then goes to low!!! I like that idea. All other options start at low and go to high.

So the questions that remain are battery life - which is longer the cr123a or the 16650 2500?

Also I've heard that aluminum lights run longer because of the better heat management?

You guys are a wealth of information and I appreciate it.

I can recommend the G2X LE version, it's a nice light and produces a better beam than its price would suggest, however according to some other threads it doesn't take kindly to running on a 16650, however I have tried mine with a 16650 and haven't noticed a drop in the lumens. I have not done a runtime test comparing two CR123's vs a 16650.

The Malkoff M61 is a good upgrade for your 6P but if you want to use it with an 18650 it would need boring to suit, I have bored them myself so it is doable.

The Malkoff M61 isn't as bright as the G2X LE in use.

 

[chillinn]

This new guy is boring. Not really a new guy, I'm just having fun.

 

[michiganstud]

I can recommend the G2X LE version, it's a nice light and produces a better beam than its price would suggest, however it according to some other threads doesn't take kindly to running on a 16650, however I have tried mine with a 16650 and haven't noticed a drop in the lumens.

The Malkoff M61 is a good upgrade for your 6P but if you want to use it with an 18650 it would need boring to suit, I have bored them myself so it is doable.

The Malkoff M61 isn't as bright as the G2X LE in use.

Doesn't take kindly....as in not enough voltage to keep it at peak?

Or other stuff? That's a bummer, that's what I was gonna use to run it. Bug I guess carrying 2 spare cr123a's in a case isn't much different than an extra 16650.