SureFire 6P vs. 6P Clones: Which is best?

[My3kidsfather]

I am looking at this newly arrived PF12 SolarForce 4x123a 6P clone. With that R2 labeled emitter drop-in, one extension, and 3x123a AW's it is great fun. But the tubing looks just a bit thinner than I would like- wishing it was just a bit thicker.

Cabela's has their XPG's, there's the SolarForce L2's, and a numbero of other I bet. The Pelican M6 has got to be a tough one.

It got me wondering whether the clones even come close in thickness/toughness and durability of a real 6P. (Gotta buy one soon.) In the mean time, some of you guys may have 6P's and clones, and know what the differences are. Is there substantial difference in body thickness and durability? Which one do you think cut the beef?

 

[generic808]

The clones can't even touch the build quality of the 6P. The real thing that seperates the original from the clones though, is the lifetime no-hassle warranty and awesome customer service. 15 years down the line, should your light fail on you, just call SF up and they'll remedy whatever issue you have with a simple phone call. A good majority of the time, you won't even have to send you light in. They go by an honor system.

 

[ace0001a]

The clones can't even touch the build quality of the 6P. The real thing that seperates the original from the clones though, is the lifetime no-hassle warranty and awesome customer service. 15 years down the line, should your light fail on you, just call SF up and they'll remedy whatever issue you have with a simple phone call. A good majority of the time, you won't even have to send you light in. They go by an honor system.

Well I own 2 Surefire 6Ps, a 6P defender and several clones and I beg to differ. While I will say that the Surefires' build quality is top notch, I won't go as far to say that the Solarforce L2 "can't even touch" Surefire's build quality. I think Solarforce has done a really good job with their L2 and in my opinion, the build quality is not that far behind. True that no one can touch Surefire's warranty, but for the money you can't go wrong with a Solarforce L2. For the $45 I've paid for a 6P, I was able to buy 3 Solarforce L2s at around $15 a piece. Ultimately I think it boils down to your budget...or if you're a flashaholic like most people here, you buy them both or more than one. :twothumbs

 

[My3kidsfather]

Well I own 2 Surefire 6Ps, a 6P defender and several clones and I beg to differ. While I will say that the Surefires' build quality is top notch, I won't go as far to say that the Solarforce L2 "can't even touch" Surefire's build quality. I think Solarforce has done a really good job with their L2 and in my opinion, the build quality is not that far behind. True that no one can touch Surefire's warranty, but for the money you can't go wrong with a Solarforce L2. For the $45 I've paid for a 6P, I was able to buy 3 Solarforce L2s at around $15 a piece. Ultimately I think it boils down to your budget...or if you're a flashaholic like most people here, you buy them both or more than one. :twothumbs

I can tell you one thing.... You might not want to put three (never mind four) freshly charged AW rcr123a's in your R2 equipped L2. I just fried the circuit on mine. Started to strobe for a few seconds... like a warning... So those two extension tubes are for primary 123a's.. ok. lol.

I like the Solarforce too. clean machining inside. Still gotta buy a new drop-in. Maybe should check out LightHounds' site? And that list of drop-ins too. Ace, you use drop-ins?

 

[GPB]

I have a 6P clone and a G2Led, and am relatively new here. As far as I can tell, there are 2 types of people that appreciate the Surefires. Those that just really like the quality of them, and those that depend on their lights for serious reasons. The quality folks are paying for more than just a light...its a craftsmanship thing.....kind of like a Rolex. A Rolex doesn't do anything a Timex can't do for a fraction of the cost....but some people just really appreciate something that's made very well, especially in this day of mass produced, disposable, imported stuff. The other group is usually law enforcement/military/security kind of folks that carry guns for more than a decoration. For that crowd, the extra durability and dependability is worth the premium price paid for a quality light. The average suburban dog walker doesn't need a $75 flashlight. He might like it, but he doesn't need it. If his light fails on him, he's still going to make it home OK. If you need to light up a room to see if there's any bad guys in it, and your light doesn't work, you might not make it home.

A coworker noticed a Surefire cataloge on my desk with some notes I had made and asked me how much a particular light cost. When I told him, he said it was just plain stupid to spend that on a light( I am genuinely coveting the E1B Backup )....I asked him what his BMW can legally do that my Honda couldn't do for 1/3 the cost and he said "That's different....my car is a great car, with much higher resale...." I said my Surefire would be a great light with better resale, and he walked away in disgust. Oh well.

 

[KeyGrip]

I'd say for normal night to night use, it doesn't matter. If you're going to be particularly rough on the light, I'd stick with SureFire.

 

[kramer5150]

I'd say for normal night to night use, it doesn't matter. If you're going to be particularly rough on the light, I'd stick with SureFire.

x2... For me the decision was somewhat easier because I wanted a light without a click switch tail-cap, preferring the long term durability of a twist-on. My opinion is that any half decent twist cap design will be more durable than a comparable clickie. I have even ruled out a Surefire clicke for now, based on these two threads...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=182512
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=189948

So, its my opinion that regardless of brand name or country of origin click switches are more problematic than other simpler switch designs.

I also am willing to pay extra and forgo some features for a company willing to service their product with minimal hassle should I ever need replacement parts. Its very reassuring knowing that every part I might need is a domestic phone call and 300 miles away from me.

If my budget were tighter, and I had to pick a clone it'd be the cabelas. The light is made in China but its backed by a domestic (to me) retailer, who has a good track record of servicing their product. It isn't a twist switch-cap (which is a major preference for most), but heck for $19, who cares. And you get a serviceable knife too!!

Things start to get more convoluted if you want to run 18650 cells. That will rule out a Surefire, and I think the Cabelas too but don't quote me on that last one. IMHO this is the biggest reason not to get a 6P, although I read that 17xxx cells will fit.

For the truly nit-picky flashahaulics, someone did current draw comparisons between some Chinese clones and a 6P... IIRC electrically they were not all equal. Some lights presenting more resistance than others, and slightly less output. I can't remember which ones were the most/least conductive though. IMHO this is a minor point, but if you are in "that" category of flashohaulism it might be important to you. It wasn't a factor at all in my decision.

If you are ever in the mood to mod... get a 6P. Its the design reference standard for all the after market part makers, so theres never any doubt if it will fit well on a 6P. With a clone its hit or miss a lot of times and aftermarket part compatibility may require research and first hand feedback from other members.

Good Luck!!

 

[bspofford]

Well I own 2 Surefire 6Ps, a 6P defender and several clones and I beg to differ. While I will say that the Surefires' build quality is top notch, I won't go as far to say that the Solarforce L2 "can't even touch" Surefire's build quality. I think Solarforce has done a really good job with their L2 and in my opinion, the build quality is not that far behind. True that no one can touch Surefire's warranty, but for the money you can't go wrong with a Solarforce L2. For the $45 I've paid for a 6P, I was able to buy 3 Solarforce L2s at around $15 a piece. Ultimately I think it boils down to your budget...or if you're a flashaholic like most people here, you buy them both or more than one. :twothumbs

I have both and agree. You can spend about $40 for a SureFire 6P with type II finish, xenon bulb, Pyrex lens and twisty tailcap. For the same amount, you can have an L2 with a stainless steel bezel protecting the type II finish, an R2 LED module, AR glass, and a clicky tailcap. To upgrade the 6P xenon to give similar features with Surefire parts will cost another $100. Moreover, if you want to put a GITD silicone switch cover in your light, only the L2 will allow you access without destroying the tailcap. The Solarforce L2 is clearly a better value, and the quality is excellent.:thumbsup:

 

[kramer5150]

For the $45 I've paid for a 6P, I was able to buy 3 Solarforce L2s at around $15 a piece. Ultimately I think it boils down to your budget...or if you're a flashaholic like most people here, you buy them both or more than one. :twothumbs

dam thats cheap.... where'd you find them for that price? Ive never even seen a SS strike bezel for less than that. If the solarforce L2 is going for $15... JUMP on that, its a no-brainer IMHO.

 

[xcel730]

GPB, I agree with you. It funny that you mentioned the anecdote. On Tuesday, when I got an email from Malkoff telling us that he has M60 available. I immediately jumped on his website and ordered one. My coworker saw me ordering something and asked what I was getting. When I told him that I spent $70 on an LED drop-in module, he was like :thinking:. He was inquisitive (not in a condscending manner) of why I spent so much on an LED module. I simply told him, "same reason why you spend $300 on a custom made leather strap for your watch". Many people place values on different things ... my coworkers easily spent 3 to 4 times the amount av average person is willing to spend on a watch ... and he's only getting a strap that does nothing but decorates his watch!

Regarding 6P vs 6P clones. In general, all flashlights will fail at some point, and according to Mr. Murphy, it will normally do so in the worst of times. I bought the 6P for $40 off ebay and I love it (it's solid chunk of metal). I'm the type that values the quality, workmanship, and reputation, brand name, customer service, etc. I end up spending an extra $30 for a z59 clicky tailcap and $70 for Malkoff M60 drop in. Total cost for the modified 6P is $130. I also purchased the Solarforce L2 with R2 drop in for $29 off ebay (just for kicks). The solarforce is about 1.5 ounces lighter than the 6P, which means it's not as thick, but overall it's very impressive considering the price (I'm not a big fan of strike bezel though). I know that if my 6P breaks, I could get replacement from SF, but if my Solarforce breaks, I'm just SOL. But at $29 a pop, if one breaks, buy another one. If you break your Solarforce 4 times and replace them each time, you would essentially get a modded 6P. The difference is whether you want for fork out over $120+ today or over the course of many many years.

There will always be people who would be firm in standing behind SF ... either because they want to justify their expensive purchase or their job truly demands the durability or reliabilty. As for me, I'm not going to justify that I spent a lot on my 6P. I know for the same amount of money, I could own several clones, but I feel good and proud of owning a 6P. Also,
I'm not an LEO, so reliability is not truly an issue. I rather place value on redundancies (read: multiple flashlights) instead of putting all my eggs in one basket.

So, in conclusion, I think what you get depends on what you value and your financial situation. Also, there's no reasons why they both cannot co-exist. :twothumbs If you looking for a 6P clone, I think many would agree that Solarforce L2 is one of the better ones out there.

I have a 6P clone and a G2Led, and am relatively new here. As far as I can tell, there are 2 types of people that appreciate the Surefires. Those that just really like the quality of them, and those that depend on their lights for serious reasons. The quality folks are paying for more than just a light...its a craftsmanship thing.....kind of like a Rolex. A Rolex doesn't do anything a Timex can't do for a fraction of the cost....but some people just really appreciate something that's made very well, especially in this day of mass produced, disposable, imported stuff. The other group is usually law enforcement/military/security kind of folks that carry guns for more than a decoration. For that crowd, the extra durability and dependability is worth the premium price paid for a quality light. The average suburban dog walker doesn't need a $75 flashlight. He might like it, but he doesn't need it. If his light fails on him, he's still going to make it home OK. If you need to light up a room to see if there's any bad guys in it, and your light doesn't work, you might not make it home.

A coworker noticed a Surefire cataloge on my desk with some notes I had made and asked me how much a particular light cost. When I told him, he said it was just plain stupid to spend that on a light( I am genuinely coveting the E1B Backup )....I asked him what his BMW can legally do that my Honda couldn't do for 1/3 the cost and he said "That's different....my car is a great car, with much higher resale...." I said my Surefire would be a great light with better resale, and he walked away in disgust. Oh well.

 

[dmz]

If you consider resale value, get at SureFire 6P. If value is paramount get a 6P Clone.

 

[generic808]

+1 ^

So true. You really can't resale a clone because no one will buy it. A good condition 6P can probably be resold for $30-$45 +/- a few, which is a good percentage of the purchase price.

 

[Norm]

Will the Solarforce L2 take an 18650 battery?
Norm

 

[Yapo]

Will the Solarforce L2 take an 18650 battery?
Norm

nope not unless you bore it out but it fits 17670

 

[gsnorm]

I am looking at this newly arrived PF12 SolarForce 4x123a 6P clone. With that R2 labeled emitter drop-in, one extension, and 3x123a AW's it is great fun. But the tubing looks just a bit thinner than I would like- wishing it was just a bit thicker.

Cabela's has their XPG's, there's the SolarForce L2's, and a numbero of other I bet. The Pelican M6 has got to be a tough one.

It got me wondering whether the clones even come close in thickness/toughness and durability of a real 6P. (Gotta buy one soon.) In the mean time, some of you guys may have 6P's and clones, and know what the differences are. Is there substantial difference in body thickness and durability? Which one do you think cut the beef?

IMHO if you take the bezel and switch from a 6P (or buy them separately) and put them on a 1x18650 Leefbody, you lose nothing in terms of build quality or durability and you gain the ability to use 18650 cells. Cheers, Frank.

 

[GPB]

But that set up ( leef body, 18650 & Charger) is going to cost almost 100 bucks. At $1.50 per CR123, that's 33 sets of batteries. At 11 hours per set of batteries ( Surefire's rating on the 6PLED ), its not cost effective to do that until you have used your light for almost 400 hours !!!!! ( 33 hours for an incandescent 6P )

Its really hard to beat the convenience of disposable 123's.

 

[ace0001a]

dam thats cheap.... where'd you find them for that price? Ive never even seen a SS strike bezel for less than that. If the solarforce L2 is going for $15... JUMP on that, its a no-brainer IMHO.

Yup, there is always an ebay dealer that sells the base Solarforce L2 for $15.50 shipped...versus a base Surefire 6P (around $45 for best price), that is definitely a no brainer if value is a primary concern.

+1 ^

So true. You really can't resale a clone because no one will buy it. A good condition 6P can probably be resold for $30-$45 +/- a few, which is a good percentage of the purchase price.

True, but anyone who's looking for value is most likely not looking to resell. But just the fact that I own a Surefire 6P, Solarforce L2 and Cabella's XPG gives me perspective. Aside from the hard to beat Surefire warranty (and resale ability if you plan on doing that), I don't see much of a difference between them in terms of useability and/or reliability...at least not as much as some would make it to be.

 

[My3kidsfather]

Thank you all for your time. If I could sum it up You are saying no one makes a 6P like Surefire makes a 6P. If this matters to you (it does to me) nothing else will do: buy a 6P. Here's what I found:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=250234551050&_trksid=p3984.cWAT.m240.lVI

As a handloader and target shooter/hunter, I read Handloader magazine. One of the writers there was talking about the Swiss 6.5x55 caliber saying it could be a replacement for the 7-08, 270 Win, 25 cal., and the 243 Win. But what is the fun in having one rifle when you can Own All Four!

You have helped me discover what I was actually needing to know: whether the design/manufacturing of a 6P was all it was cracked up to be. I would say it is.

Unfortunately I cannot support local retailers at the Can $100.00 price. Not going to happen as the warranty will be void shortly after the incan bulb goes in the garbage and the new R2 goes in. by the way, anyone like their XPG from Cabelas? well made for the price?

 

[Wattnot]

I have the Cabelas XPG and it seems excellent . . . for the price. I paid $25 shipped and it came with an okay knife.

Had I not run across that deal, I might have gone with a real 6P from the sources here and on Ebay selling them for $42 shipped.

My original goal was to end up with a 6P clone that would take an 18650. That would have been a nice trade off. So if the Cabelas deal wasn't there, I might have also gone for an XTAR for $25 from lighthound.

 

[GPB]

I have the Cabelas and I love it. I did replace the incan lamp in it with a BOG LED, but the light was a great deal at the 25 ( 19.99 + 5 shipping ) price with the free knife.

If you get it, search for product id 8CC-517768. You can still get it for the 19.99.