Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

[bykfixer]

This thread caused me to dust off an A2 for the evening jaunt.

 

[novice]

The light will function without the LED ring. You can remove it if it bothers you too much. Might even gain a little tiny piece of runtime too.

Thanks for sharing that, DayofReckoning. I didn't know. I just tried completely removing the lamp and turning it on and realized that you can run the leds without any sort of lamp or bulb adapter in there also. What a wonderfully versatile light!

 

[thermal guy]

This thread caused me to dust off an A2 for the evening jaunt.

And your post got me to do the same.Mine has a ring in it and it's running some really warm whites.I have a lot of fond memories with My old A2. I used to do a fair bit of ghost hunting and it was my first really good light. Right after my E2.

 

[DayofReckoning]

No problem Novice.

For the close to 10 years I've owned the light, I've only run primaries. I've never wanted to degrade the LED's running Li-ion, and just never got the chance to pick up one of the aftermarket rings.

A few weeks ago I picked up a pair of the k2 energy lfp123a 600mah cells. At 3.35V, I feel the amount of overdriving the LED's is negligible enough that I'm not worried. Using the Tad's 3712 I got 30min runtime exactly. 30min is a lot of time when just using the main beam in bursts, like the lights designed to be used.

 

[skillet]

I didn't care much for the tint of the white LEDs so I swapped mine with Radio Shack 276-0017 - got this idea from a post long ago - Tint is creamy white and no angry blue.

 

[ampdude]

Sure, because blue and purple tinted LED's really help to enhance that 3350K A2 beam's CCT whiteness :thinking:

Is this the part where you repeat the same demonstrably false claim that I've seen you post over and over again, year after year in reading old threads? About how the A2's beam is "too orange" and how it's "not as white as other SF lights".

Last time we had this conversation, you said you were going to "post some beamshots to prove your point". Perhaps you feel these aren't needed anymore, as you have already "disproven" this many times through your own observations?

Personally, I've compared the A2 against more Surefire Incandescent lights, bulbs and combos than I care to even think about, and the CCT and whiteness of the A2 never fails to impress.

There are a few beamshots in JS's original A2 review here. If you compare them with the E2E and MN03, for example, one can clearly the superiority of the A2's CCT.

I would love to hear exactly what combination of bulb and battery you use to determine that the A2's beam is "too orange", "not driven hard enough" or whatever conclusion you came up with.

I guess if it has bothered you for so long and in so many ways, you could easily post something to refute what I have been saying. Maybe if I feel like it I'll post some photos, I do need to do some maintenance one one of my A2's, but it's not a priority. I'm not saying you're wrong, or I'm right irrefutably, but you could contribute as well. I did just look at an A2 vs. a P60 with not so fresh batteries and yes, the P60 does have a whiter beam. And so does my beat up carry E2e/MN03 on not so fresh primaries. I'm pretty sure both lamp assemblies are driven harder than the A2's, and they certainly put out more light.

There are a few beamshots in JS's original A2 review here. If you compare them with the E2E and MN03, for example, one can clearly the superiority of the A2's CCT.

What are you talking about, the A2 has a much larger and deeper reflector than the E2e, OF COURSE it's going to look brighter at that distance.

 

[bykfixer]

Perhaps the secret combo of gasses in the P60 and E bulbs burns brighter than the A2 so that when voltage is running down they won't appear so orange where the regulated A2 bulb stays consitant since it's regulated.

I do remember PK saying once that they spent a while computing potential combinations in order to achieve an over drive look while achieving more lifespan. He said at one point the earlier P60 bulb would often times poof before the batteries were depleted. He hired a Phd fellow to design the gas combo. He said the Phd fellow told him he needed a better computer because it took 5 computers a week each to solve some of the equations so SureFire spent a bunch of money on a better computer so it wouldn't take so long to come up with potential combos to try in a test batch. They set the stage for others later to have truely "educated guesses" instead of blind faith trial and error.

 

[ampdude]

Perhaps the secret combo of gasses in the P60 and E bulbs burns brighter than the A2 so that when voltage is running down they won't appear so orange where the regulated A2 bulb stays consitant since it's regulated.

I don't know the specs of the filament of the MA02 vs. the P60/MN03, but I do know the MA02 runs at a slightly lower voltage and I've always suspected it is a little under driven.

 

[ampdude]

I do remember PK saying once that they spent a while computing potential combinations in order to achieve an over drive look while achieving more lifespan. He said at one point the earlier P60 bulb would often times poof before the batteries were depleted. He hired a Phd fellow to design the gas combo. He said the Phd fellow told him he needed a better computer because it took 5 computers a week each to solve some of the equations so SureFire spent a bunch of money on a better computer so it wouldn't take so long to come up with potential combos to try in a test batch. They set the stage for others later to have truely "educated guesses" instead of blind faith trial and error.

I guess that kinda makes sense to me. I posted an earlier thread on this a long time ago, but I believe it was just because the gases had escaped from the earlier plastic based P60 lamp. It was perfect before I put the batteries in and fired it up. I'm sure I still have the pics somewhere. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...ndescent-lamp-assembly-made-for-Surefire-6-6C

Somehow they must have got it really right for the sort of HOLA's like the P61, P91, and MN21.

 

[DayofReckoning]

I guess if it has bothered you for so long and in so many ways, you could easily post something to refute what I have been saying. Maybe if I feel like it I'll post some photos, I do need to do some maintenance one one of my A2's, but it's not a priority. I'm not saying you're wrong, or I'm right irrefutably, but you could contribute as well. I did just look at an A2 vs. a P60 with not so fresh batteries and yes, the P60 does have a whiter beam. And so does my beat up carry E2e/MN03 on not so fresh primaries. I'm pretty sure both lamp assemblies are driven harder than the A2's, and they certainly put out more light.

​

I'm an avid reader of thread's on the A2, which is collected together here in this index. I never had, or intend to personally "attack" you on the subject, but when I see something that is demonstrably, verifiability false repeated over, and over, and over again across all the different threads I've read, I stand it's reasonable to call that out. And I will attempt to do that by here by "attacking the post, not the poster" as kindly and wisely suggested earlier.

In that index of reviews, opening just a few of them reveals some comments such as

"The P60 in the G2 has a (barely) nicer beam in terms of shape, but the A2 has got it beat in whiteness."

" The P90 is slightly brighter - though surprisingly, not by a whole lot more, but the A2 is most definitely WHITER. It's whiter than even the P91"

"Compared to the E2e, to my eyes, the output was the same. The A2 was a tad bit whiter and tighter."

That's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the user reports of how white the A2's beam is. The whiteness of the beam is one of the greatest attributes of the A2 that we consistently see mentioned by owners.

And we must remember, most of these reports are from people that were running the factory MA02. The lumens factory lamps are a bit brighter than the stock lamp, and the 3718 1.8A Lamp is available from Tad's for even more output.

Furthermore, I would like to hear a dispute to Lumens Factory's own listed specifications. In their specifications page for the A2 here, it's listed as being 3350K. In the specifications for all the D26 modules (aka P60/P90 type) here not one single lamp is listed as high as 3350K, all falling short, even the E0-9 at 380 bulb lumens on Li-ion can only achieve a listing of 3325K. It must be noted that most of these lamps are vastly superior to the P60 running on primaries in terms of sheer output and CCT.

Therefore it is impossible for a P60 or MN03, with unfresh batteries mind you, to be whiter than the A2 and MA02. This is assuming there are no physical issues (dirty contacts, old degraded bulb, etc)​

And the distance in that photo in JS's review is only 33 feet. That's close enough in my opinion that the CCT difference can still be visible in the photo, and considering the not so big difference between the two lights in throw. Despite that, more than enough evidence exists to show the A2 is very good in the CCT department and better than most.



​

 

[bykfixer]

Let it go man. Please, pretty please with sugar on top.

 

[thermal guy]

How the hell does a thread about one dam fine light turn into a pissing match?! Really?

 

[DayofReckoning]

How the hell does a thread about one dam fine light turn into a pissing match?! Really?

Just a disagreement that started back at the beginning of this thread. Not looking to turn anything into the above term used. I've said what needs to be said.

At least we are all in agreement that the A2 is a dam fine light

 

[Kestrel]

No worries everybody; all is running per-specification.

 

[Grijon]

I have a stock Surefire P90 module that is dimmer than any of my stock Surefire P60 modules, regardless of what cells I put in.

I assume I just have a bad module.

I believe sometimes individuals report their individual experiences with an individual item as general fact, and sometimes many times in different places leading to a false appearance of widespread generality - and I can completely understand another's desire to correct the situation.

I have also learned that it is true that literally every person's eyes are different, and that some battles we will never "win" in trying to "correct" a difference in perception/opinion.

On topic, I have never wanted an A2 more than since this thread started.

 

[DayofReckoning]

I have a stock Surefire P90 module that is dimmer than any of my stock Surefire P60 modules, regardless of what cells I put in.

I assume I just have a bad module.

I believe sometimes individuals report their individual experiences with an individual item as general fact, and sometimes many times in different places leading to a false appearance of widespread generality - and I can completely understand another's desire to correct the situation.

I have also learned that it is true that literally every person's eyes are different, and that some battles we will never "win" in trying to "correct" a difference in perception/opinion.

On topic, I have never wanted an A2 more than since this thread started.

Once you use the A2, it's a real gamechanger. A2's are going for good prices, I would love to see you join the club

 

[ampdude]

I have a stock Surefire P90 module that is dimmer than any of my stock Surefire P60 modules, regardless of what cells I put in.

I assume I just have a bad module.

I believe sometimes individuals report their individual experiences with an individual item as general fact, and sometimes many times in different places leading to a false appearance of widespread generality - and I can completely understand another's desire to correct the situation.

I have also learned that it is true that literally every person's eyes are different, and that some battles we will never "win" in trying to "correct" a difference in perception/opinion.

On topic, I have never wanted an A2 more than since this thread started.

I also have modules that are all over the place, Surefire's to Lumens Factory, to other manufactures. One of my oldest P90's is a Laser Products marked module I got in a trade about 15 years ago. It already looked like it had been rode hard and put away wet many times back when I got it. It's dimmer than any of my other P90's and the reflector has some minor scratches. I used it as the main module for many years working security at night. I've put hundreds of hours on it hoping it would die, it just won't and the bulb hasn't even darkened. I'd say it's probably 75% output of a typical P90. It's not dimmer because it's older, I have some old Laser Products P90's that are brighter than some much newer Surefire P90's.

 

[ampdude]

In that index of reviews, opening just a few of them reveals some comments such as

"The P60 in the G2 has a (barely) nicer beam in terms of shape, but the A2 has got it beat in whiteness."

" The P90 is slightly brighter - though surprisingly, not by a whole lot more, but the A2 is most definitely WHITER. It's whiter than even the P91"

"Compared to the E2e, to my eyes, the output was the same. The A2 was a tad bit whiter and tighter."

That's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the user reports of how white the A2's beam is. The whiteness of the beam is one of the greatest attributes of the A2 that we consistently see mentioned by owners.

And we must remember, most of these reports are from people that were running the factory MA02. The lumens factory lamps are a bit brighter than the stock lamp, and the 3718 1.8A Lamp is available from Tad's for even more output.

Furthermore, I would like to hear a dispute to Lumens Factory's own listed specifications. In their specifications page for the A2 here, it's listed as being 3350K. In the specifications for all the D26 modules (aka P60/P90 type) here not one single lamp is listed as high as 3350K, all falling short, even the E0-9 at 380 bulb lumens on Li-ion can only achieve a listing of 3325K. It must be noted that most of these lamps are vastly superior to the P60 running on primaries in terms of sheer output and CCT.
Therefore it is impossible for a P60 or MN03, with unfresh batteries mind you, to be whiter than the A2 and MA02. This is assuming there are no physical issues (dirty contacts, old degraded bulb, etc)

And the distance in that photo in JS's review is only 33 feet. That's close enough in my opinion that the CCT difference can still be visible in the photo, and considering the not so big difference between the two lights in throw. Despite that, more than enough evidence exists to show the A2 is very good in the CCT department and better than most.

Maybe too much faith in reviews and not so much personal experience. Seems like this is fuel for another thread. I'll post some pics and create a new one so as not to get this one off track. I have had the lumens factory version of the MA02 bulb as well, including the short run of unfrosted bulbs. They are slightly brighter than the stock bulb. CCT is also affected by brightness and at that distance with the larger reflector the A2 has more brightness than the E2e. Lights that throw better appear brighter to the average user. 33 feet is a long ways for an E2e with a typical reflector. Some are less orange peel than others, but the typical E2e reflector is a short range light.

 

[DayofReckoning]

Maybe too much faith in reviews and not so much personal experience. Seems like this is fuel for another thread. I'll post some pics and create a new one so as not to get this one off track. I have had the lumens factory version of the MA02 bulb as well, including the short run of unfrosted bulbs. They are slightly brighter than the stock bulb. CCT is also affected by brightness and at that distance with the larger reflector the A2 has more brightness than the E2e. Lights that throw better appear brighter to the average user. 33 feet is a long ways for an E2e with a typical reflector. Some are less orange peel than others, but the typical E2e reflector is a short range light.

Well, I've owned, and heavily used two different A2's, a 4 fours flats and a newer round body, for over the span of close to 10 years now. A lot of that time done comparing the A2 to different lights. Does that count as personal experience?

I combine the following to reach my conclusions

(1.) a decade of personal experience with the light
(2.) First hand user reports and reviews made by several key individuals who have proven to be trustworthy, reports that verify my own personal findings
(3.) The official technical specifications support my conclusion

That's pretty much it. You are certainly welcome to start a new thread on the subject if you feel this conversation is derailing the thread (which I don't feel it is). I was hoping you would acknowledge the bit I put forth on the LumensFactory specifications though.

I did find an old post with some beamshots, and it does show a P60 next to the A2, but sadly the image is not displaying properly. This is however enough there visible to see the difference between the two.

The image is on the far right, and the order from left to right in the first 4 boxes is, P60 A2 G90 P91

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...KHcPCB5kQ4dUDCAY&uact=5#imgrc=GZDSigCzufxzVM:


The A2 is visibly whiter in that photo than the p60 and g90. Hard to tell with the p91, it's so massively bright. Both have larger reflectors than the A2 as well.

I tried taking some beam shots myself. The result was not good I'll have to read up on how to do beam shots. I can't take anything that shows the difference, everything's pretty washed out.

I still believe more than enough evidence exists to support my conclusion. But in the end though, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and everyone's free to disagree.

 

[thermal guy]

If you guys want a real ugly beam try your A2 with green LEDS! Omg I literally cannot use it. When you hit high you get this green tint to the spill. I'm no tint snob but it really is an ugly beam.