Surefire C2: Best Incandescent bulb for use with rechargeables

[shomie911]

I'm about to pick up a Surefire C2-HA for use outdoors within the next few days and I was wondering what you guys recommend regarding a bulb to use with rechargeable RCR123 batteries.

I don't want to push the RCR rechargeables too hard but I do want decent output with acceptable runtime.

I was thinking maybe the Lumens Factory SR-9 or Lumens Factory HO-9.

I'm also thinking of picking up a Malkoff M60, but I don't think I'll be all that impressed with it's outdoor performance, especially at relatively long range outdoors.

Comments and suggestions appreciated. :thumbsup:

EDIT:


I just thought of something. If I were to use AW's LiFePO4 cells and an EO-9 what would the runtime and output be like?

I know that the LiFePO4 are safe for a lot higher discharge than regular cells, so they should be able to handle the EO-9, right?

 

[brighterisbetter]

I'm sure mdocod will chime in here any moment, but here's my thoughts. Granted the M60's tint isn't ideally suited for the outdoors like an incan would be, but I honestly think you'd be pleasantly surprised at how far that module can throw. I can light up about a 15-20 ft. diameter spot on a tree that's roughly 135 yards out from my front door easily.

As for using rechargeables with an incan, I believe there's plenty of threads about this very issue. I'll see if I can find what you're looking for and hopefully be back soon with an appropriate post.

 

[FredM]

If it were me I would do an EO-4 with a 17670 if it fits in your battery tube.

The HO-9 would be the max for RCR123 sized batteries no matter the chemistry.

 

[shomie911]

I'm sure mdocod will chime in here any moment, but here's my thoughts. Granted the M60's tint isn't ideally suited for the outdoors like an incan would be, but I honestly think you'd be pleasantly surprised at how far that module can throw. I can light up about a 15-20 ft. diameter spot on a tree that's roughly 135 yards out from my front door easily.

As for using rechargeables with an incan, I believe there's plenty of threads about this very issue. I'll see if I can find what you're looking for and hopefully be back soon with an appropriate post.

I used to have the Olight M20 Warrior Premium with an R2 and a smooth reflector, which had a warm tint for an LED flashlight, but it didn't cut through rain or smoke all that well.

So I doubt the Malkoff will be enough for me, but I'm still thinking about getting a M60LL as a long running alternative to whatever incandescent lamp I buy.

Thanks, I looked quickly but didn't see anything about C2 lamp assemblies with rechargeables.

If it were me I would do an EO-4 with a 17670 if it fits in your battery tube.

The HO-9 would be the max for RCR123 sized batteries no matter the chemistry.

I'm trying to standardize on R/CR123 sized batteries but I guess that is a possibility as well.

 

[Sgt. LED]

ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW IS WITHIN.

 

[mdocod]

Using 2 LiCo chemistry RCR123 cells, you're honestly not going to find any bulb that *handily* beats a good cree module in this size class. There just isn't enough power to go around. You can run the HO-9 in short bursts, and wear out your cells more quickly than ideal, and get around 20 minutes of runtime, but since RCR123s sag more under that intense load, the HO-9 is not going to be pushing the 320 lumen rating very well at all. It might do a little better outside, but it's probably not worth the huge hit on runtime, or the significant noticeable dimming after the first few minutes.

Another consideration to make note of, is that a Malkoff M60 uses a very efficient optic, around 90% of the light comes out the front. An incan in a reflector, especially these little compact D26 designs, are around 65% efficient (give or take, some are better than others), so after you take this into consideration, take cell voltage sag into consideration, take average output through the run into consideration, etc etc etc, I would rate the HO-9 on RCR123s an honest 125 lumen configuration. With the M60 pushing double that, I am willing to bet that even outdoors the M60 will compete pretty well. Yes there are circumstances where a half-as-bright incan will outperform the LED, but we have to ask if it's worth the hit on runtime and such..

-------------------------

Now, having said all that, there is a new breed of RCR123 coming out from AW sometime in the next few weeks/months (not sure exactly when to be honest). They are based on the LiMn chemistry found in many li-ion power tools. The result will be a 3.7V RCR123 that can safely handle more demanding loads, while at the same time, likely holding better voltage under those demanding loads than a regular LiCo RCR123. A pair of these cells will allow for some compact incan configurations with short runtime, but great output. The EO-9 and P91 will both be options, I suspect runtime will be ~9 minutes and ~7 minutes respectively.

Considering the short runtime, that might make a great little light if used for short engagement tactical type stuff, (bump in the night), or quick surveillance spotting of a dark alley, or showing off to friends, etc etc, but it's not going to be practical for tasks like lighting a path on a long walk, or caving, or camping, etc etc.

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[edit in]:
IMO, if your goal is an outdoor incan, go up a notch. A C3, or M3 IMO. HO-9 or HO-M3 respectively, run on 2x17500, and get an honest 175 incandescent torch lumens, with more than just a few minutes of usefully bright output.

Eric

 

[shomie911]

Using 2 LiCo chemistry RCR123 cells, you're honestly not going to find any bulb that *handily* beats a good cree module in this size class. There just isn't enough power to go around. You can run the HO-9 in short bursts, and wear out your cells more quickly than ideal, and get around 20 minutes of runtime, but since RCR123s sag more under that intense load, the HO-9 is not going to be pushing the 320 lumen rating very well at all. It might do a little better outside, but it's probably not worth the huge hit on runtime, or the significant noticeable dimming after the first few minutes.

Another consideration to make note of, is that a Malkoff M60 uses a very efficient optic, around 90% of the light comes out the front. An incan in a reflector, especially these little compact D26 designs, are around 65% efficient (give or take, some are better than others), so after you take this into consideration, take cell voltage sag into consideration, take average output through the run into consideration, etc etc etc, I would rate the HO-9 on RCR123s an honest 125 lumen configuration. With the M60 pushing double that, I am willing to bet that even outdoors the M60 will compete pretty well. Yes there are circumstances where a half-as-bright incan will outperform the LED, but we have to ask if it's worth the hit on runtime and such..

-------------------------

Now, having said all that, there is a new breed of RCR123 coming out from AW sometime in the next few weeks/months (not sure exactly when to be honest). They are based on the LiMn chemistry found in many li-ion power tools. The result will be a 3.7V RCR123 that can safely handle more demanding loads, while at the same time, likely holding better voltage under those demanding loads than a regular LiCo RCR123. A pair of these cells will allow for some compact incan configurations with short runtime, but great output. The EO-9 and P91 will both be options, I suspect runtime will be ~9 minutes and ~7 minutes respectively.

Considering the short runtime, that might make a great little light if used for short engagement tactical type stuff, (bump in the night), or quick surveillance spotting of a dark alley, or showing off to friends, etc etc, but it's not going to be practical for tasks like lighting a path on a long walk, or caving, or camping, etc etc.

--------------------------
[edit in]:
IMO, if your goal is an outdoor incan, go up a notch. A C3, or M3 IMO. HO-9 or HO-M3 respectively, run on 2x17500, and get an honest 175 incandescent torch lumens, with more than just a few minutes of usefully bright output.

Eric

After reading through your reply and looking at a couple other threads about the M60, I decided that it would be the best overall choice for me.

I just ordered it, and I don't even have the C2 yet.

The good thing is, that by the time the M60 gets delivered, I will have swung by the local tactical supply store and picked up a C2. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the help guys.

It really seems, atleast for small lights, that LEDs have surpassed incandescents.

 

[werdnawee]

IMO, if your goal is an outdoor incan, go up a notch. A C3, or M3 IMO. HO-9 or HO-M3 respectively, run on 2x17500, and get an honest 175 incandescent torch lumens, with more than just a few minutes of usefully bright output.

Eric

Thanks to this forum and people like mdocod :thumbsup:, the M3, HO-M3 and 2X17500 will be my high output incan set-up in the next week.

Just waiting for the M3. Come on mail man!!!

Can't wait to compare it to my M6.

 

[werdnawee]

double post. server busy.