Surefire M6 SMO/LOP reflector to increase THROW
- Thread starter Mettee
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ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond
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Very nice SMO looking reflector. I would like to see confirmation (as there appeared to be some question in the other thread) that the reflector can handle the heat of both the 1185 and 1909 bulbs.
Justin Case
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At least based on Lux Luthor's data, the 5761 and 1909 look to be much hotter running bulbs than the 1185.
I would also test for beam quality characteristics using bulbs with a variety of filament dimensions -- such as "point source" filaments like the N1 and N2, and "bar" filaments like the MN16, MN60, and MN61. The various W-A lamps like the 1111, 1331, and 1185 are sort of intermediate. May as well also include the MN20 and MN21, since those are sort of the standard bearers for the SF M6. Most of the above lamps can be used with the PhD-M6, so they may have a reasonable probability of actual use in an M6.
Other candidate test bulbs could include the Hikari 5607, and some of the various Lumens Factory lamps.
If you don't have a PhD-M6, that would remove some of the above bulbs that aren't well matched for direct drive.
I would also test for beam quality characteristics using bulbs with a variety of filament dimensions -- such as "point source" filaments like the N1 and N2, and "bar" filaments like the MN16, MN60, and MN61. The various W-A lamps like the 1111, 1331, and 1185 are sort of intermediate. May as well also include the MN20 and MN21, since those are sort of the standard bearers for the SF M6. Most of the above lamps can be used with the PhD-M6, so they may have a reasonable probability of actual use in an M6.
Other candidate test bulbs could include the Hikari 5607, and some of the various Lumens Factory lamps.
If you don't have a PhD-M6, that would remove some of the above bulbs that aren't well matched for direct drive.
Dioni
Flashlight Enthusiast
Indeed, very nice SMO! 
I dont have all those bulbs so some of them will not be tested, sorry.
Plan is for 1909, 1185, 1111, stock SF bulbs like MN16 MN60 MN61 , and random Lumens factory. If you want a bulb tested feel free to send it my way, all I am offering is to test it with this reflector. Individuals should be able to use the info from those bulbs to arrive at a very good hypothesis on performance of any other different bulbs.
What is the average O.D. of the Phillips 5761 if you can measure a bulb? I need an average of at least 3 bulbs I would say.
The vertex of the reflector is going to be a specific size to take advantage of the most commonly used bulbs in the M6. So, what that means is that some bulbs will possibly not work(5761). I personally would never use that bulb over an 1185 so it really doesn't matter much to me. I honestly was not even thinking about it. What bulb/s(pick two and be realistic) will the majority of you be using on a regular basis? The M6 shootout shows the 1185 as the winner, and I agree with that, but those seeking different run times may want something else.
To end all these heat issues, I plan to hit one of these with a Osram 64657 and 1909 to test for heat. I am pretty sure those are two of the hottest bulbs I could choose, but if not I am sure I will be corrected. I will let you know what happens, I figure that should end all the concerns. :duck:
For some performance feedback from last night...In the rain I did a shot at a location I normally test at. I have been shining the M6 there once a night to burn that performance into my brain. After changing out to this new set up the light at the longest throw distance looks to be a good percentage brighter than the stock reflector. Just as I thought it would from my past experience. The beam is not overly tight and really gathers the light well to illuminate a large area better at that given longest distance. I am sorry I dont have a tape measure so I dont know how far, roughly 150-180 yards. And yes it does out throw the stock reflector. It really keeps it a usable light even with the SMO. Done with 1185 and 3x17650 with softstart.
Give me some time and I will start throwing up beam shots. Weather permitting.
Plan is for 1909, 1185, 1111, stock SF bulbs like MN16 MN60 MN61 , and random Lumens factory. If you want a bulb tested feel free to send it my way, all I am offering is to test it with this reflector. Individuals should be able to use the info from those bulbs to arrive at a very good hypothesis on performance of any other different bulbs.
What is the average O.D. of the Phillips 5761 if you can measure a bulb? I need an average of at least 3 bulbs I would say.
The vertex of the reflector is going to be a specific size to take advantage of the most commonly used bulbs in the M6. So, what that means is that some bulbs will possibly not work(5761). I personally would never use that bulb over an 1185 so it really doesn't matter much to me. I honestly was not even thinking about it. What bulb/s(pick two and be realistic) will the majority of you be using on a regular basis? The M6 shootout shows the 1185 as the winner, and I agree with that, but those seeking different run times may want something else.
To end all these heat issues, I plan to hit one of these with a Osram 64657 and 1909 to test for heat. I am pretty sure those are two of the hottest bulbs I could choose, but if not I am sure I will be corrected. I will let you know what happens, I figure that should end all the concerns. :duck:
For some performance feedback from last night...In the rain I did a shot at a location I normally test at. I have been shining the M6 there once a night to burn that performance into my brain. After changing out to this new set up the light at the longest throw distance looks to be a good percentage brighter than the stock reflector. Just as I thought it would from my past experience. The beam is not overly tight and really gathers the light well to illuminate a large area better at that given longest distance. I am sorry I dont have a tape measure so I dont know how far, roughly 150-180 yards. And yes it does out throw the stock reflector. It really keeps it a usable light even with the SMO. Done with 1185 and 3x17650 with softstart.
Give me some time and I will start throwing up beam shots. Weather permitting.
Justin Case
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The bulbs you have on-hand look reasonably comprehensive, although I think you should also test an MN20 and MN21 since those are the factory lamps that come with the M6.
The Osram 64657 is over 1/2" diam. Unless you plan on making your reflector with a larger than stock opening, the big Osram super bulbs will not fit.
All (6 or 7?) of my 5761 lamps fit through my KT4 -- thus glass diam is smaller than the stock opening for a KT4 reflector. But that doesn't seem to be 100% -- apparently 5761s have enough glass envelope size variation that some are too big to fit in a KT4. I am similarly lucky with my supply of Osram 64250 lamps (a less expensive substitute for the WA1111). They all fit.
If you don't have a PhD-M6, then DDing bulbs like the MN60 and MN61 might not work out too well when using an M6 host. They'll be fine in an M4 running 123A primaries. Similar issue with the MN16. You'd probably need an M3 host for direct drive testing.
The Osram 64657 is over 1/2" diam. Unless you plan on making your reflector with a larger than stock opening, the big Osram super bulbs will not fit.
All (6 or 7?) of my 5761 lamps fit through my KT4 -- thus glass diam is smaller than the stock opening for a KT4 reflector. But that doesn't seem to be 100% -- apparently 5761s have enough glass envelope size variation that some are too big to fit in a KT4. I am similarly lucky with my supply of Osram 64250 lamps (a less expensive substitute for the WA1111). They all fit.
If you don't have a PhD-M6, then DDing bulbs like the MN60 and MN61 might not work out too well when using an M6 host. They'll be fine in an M4 running 123A primaries. Similar issue with the MN16. You'd probably need an M3 host for direct drive testing.
I'll likely test the 20/21, just didn't type it.
64657 will be tested in a big reflector with the same coating. 1909 in this M6 reflector. Since that is likely the hottest that will be used thats what I will base things off of.
Again, an average O.D. of the phillips 5761 will be needed. Or its out, I dont have them on hand. Maybe someone with bulbs and dial calipers can check this? Its just not worth it in my opinion to not take full advantage of the WA bulbs and stock bulbs with an optimised vertex opening dimension.
I do not have a PHD M6 set up, too rich for my blood
I have a M3 but chances are I will fall back on another bulb for testing as they will all likely perform the same, just at different brightness levels.
More testing tonight on a long walk, majority of time on high. Should be the third or fourth battery cycle with the 1185. No issues.
64657 will be tested in a big reflector with the same coating. 1909 in this M6 reflector. Since that is likely the hottest that will be used thats what I will base things off of.
Again, an average O.D. of the phillips 5761 will be needed. Or its out, I dont have them on hand. Maybe someone with bulbs and dial calipers can check this? Its just not worth it in my opinion to not take full advantage of the WA bulbs and stock bulbs with an optimised vertex opening dimension.
I do not have a PHD M6 set up, too rich for my blood
I have a M3 but chances are I will fall back on another bulb for testing as they will all likely perform the same, just at different brightness levels.More testing tonight on a long walk, majority of time on high. Should be the third or fourth battery cycle with the 1185. No issues.
Justin Case
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The 5761's glass envelope has a slightly oval profile. The widths (in a direction parallel to a line that connects the two bi-pin legs) and depths (in a direction perpendicular to a line connecting the two bi-pin legs) are:
Code:
Bulb Width Depth
1 0.354" 0.342"
2 0.354" 0.341"
3 0.356" 0.344"
4 0.355" 0.343"
5 0.355" 0.345"Noted, and thank you Sir.
Hummmm, let me think about this bulb. It would require some compromise with what I want to have happen. It might be out, sorry to say. Its just not that popular of a bulb as far as I am concerned and its not worth sacrificing the performance of the stock and more popular bulbs.
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Justin Case
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No big deal. The 5761 draws a lot of current and runs hot, so IMO it isn't as desirable of a bulb as some other choices such as the various Welch-Allyn bulbs. You have the heat test covered with the Osram 64657 and the 1909 anyway. Also, the 5761's voltage range before instaflashing is limited, so running on 2xIMR18650 could be bad. I'm using it with a PhD-M6, and even then it probably would be better if and when IMR17670s hit the scene.
If you plan to test the big Osram, does this mean you are considering two (or more) reflector configurations -- a small reflector opening for bulbs like the W-As and the stock SF MN lamps, and a bigger opening for the larger Osrams? Or is it just a test reflector, not meant for the KT4?
If you plan to test the big Osram, does this mean you are considering two (or more) reflector configurations -- a small reflector opening for bulbs like the W-As and the stock SF MN lamps, and a bigger opening for the larger Osrams? Or is it just a test reflector, not meant for the KT4?
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Justin Case
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...custom vertex sizes will be available special order
Very nice.
A shot taken from the other night. Its not the best it can be I will admit that. It is taken hand held with a sony TX5.
Just a quick throw shot at a distance close to 200 yards.
Control
Bridge in distance is the target.
I am waiting for another stock M6 head to do back to back shots of stock vs. SMO. Please bare with me
Just a quick throw shot at a distance close to 200 yards.
Control
Bridge in distance is the target.
I am waiting for another stock M6 head to do back to back shots of stock vs. SMO. Please bare with me
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Going to do some set up work this evening and thought I would enlist the help of you all. I wanted to ask, how would you like to see the beam shots taken? I was going to set up in a park that has little to no night light. So the only light you see will be coming from the M6. And I wanted to be able to illuminate an easily visible object to allow everyone to see the difference in light intensity on that object. The problem I was having with the above "for fun" shots is that there was some "street light" present.
Tell me if you have any input on what you want to see in the beam shots.
Tell me if you have any input on what you want to see in the beam shots.
To get a good idea of how a light performs, beamshot pics should be clear/sharp and the framing should not move from shot to shot. This is especially helpful if you want to do a rotating GIF image to show the difference in brightness between the different setups. That means sitting the camera on a sturdy tripod, on manual exposure settings, using manual focus and timer tripped to avoid shake/jitter. Different exposure settings should be experimented to get a result that closely matches what your eyes are seeing on site. For me, it does not matter if the area is lit or partly lit, as long as it's not overly bright . I'm sure most of us don't always use our lights in pitch darkness as there will always be some sort of lighting around in this day and age.
Thanks for doing this for us mettee.
. I'm sure most of us don't always use our lights in pitch darkness as there will always be some sort of lighting around in this day and age.Thanks for doing this for us mettee.
