SureFire R1 Lawman

[ktsl]

Other than it taking a proprietary battery, what is so poorly designed about this flashlight in your opinion?

Where do I begin?
no moonlight
only 750lm for 18650?
proprietary battery
not micro-usb or usb-c charger port
greenish tint :sick2:
high standby drain
no full lock-out
idk, I can't handle twists with one hand
I mean it's supposed to be dead reliable. But just how dead reliable do you want it to be? There are, I wouldn't say a lot, but at least a few options out there that are known for reliablity, for a fraction of that price.

 

[Dave D]

Where do I begin?
no moonlight I've never personally needed a moonlight mode on a duty light, a low of 15 is fine.
only 750lm for 18650? First version was 750, second was 1000 lumens and third was 1000 lumen with IntelliBeam.
proprietary battery I agree on that, unless replacements are readily available.
not micro-usb or usb-c charger port It has a charging port on the side which doesn't need the plug inserting the correct way up, I see that as a plus.
greenish tint :sick2: I've never been a tint snob and I don't have any issue with the R1 in real world usage.
high standby drain It's a duty light for regular usage.
no full lock-out The tail cap has lockout, but not the head switch, neither are usually required on a duty light.
idk, I can't handle twists with one hand Momentary switch on the rear is ideal for tactical usage.
I mean it's supposed to be dead reliable. But just how dead reliable do you want it to be? There are, I wouldn't say a lot, but at least a few options out there that are known for reliablity, for a fraction of that price. Original RRP was ridiculous and IMHO too high for your average Cop

They were recently sold off by Surefire for $149, cheaper than most my other SF and Malkoff Lights, I wouldn't have bought one at the RRP.

As a duty light it's actually well designed.

It may have been more popular if the battery was a straightforward 18650 (or even 2 x 18500's) that could be easily replaced in the future and of course it may have found a bigger share of the market had it been at least $200 cheaper.

 

[ktsl]

With all due respect, it seems to me your standard as a duty light is quite low. So many aspects you don't care about.

Then again, why does it have to be this light with this price? To meet your standard there are so many options.

"It is a duty light. Nothing else. So you don't need this you don't need that." - Feels to me an argument quite thin.

They were recently sold off by Surefire for $149, cheaper than most my other SF and Malkoff Lights, I wouldn't have bought one at the RRP.

As a duty light it's actually well designed.

It may have been more popular if the battery was a straightforward 18650 (or even 2 x 18500's) that could be easily replaced in the future and of course it may have found a bigger share of the market had it been at least $200 cheaper.

 

[MBentz]

As someone who has used the 750 lumen version of the R1 while on duty, I can most assuredly say it does its job admirably.

 

[id30209]

Well gents, as per several dealers info on new Fury DFT, it has intelliebeam technology as standard. Combined with 18650 and 1500lm for a normal price this could be jackpot.

 

[XR6Toggie]

With all due respect, it seems to me your standard as a duty light is quite low. So many aspects you don't care about.

Then again, why does it have to be this light with this price? To meet your standard there are so many options.

"It is a duty light. Nothing else. So you don't need this you don't need that." - Feels to me an argument quite thin.

Lights for police duty use their simplicity as a selling point. A large number of different modes are undesirable on a
police duty light for a number of reasons. You may need to access the light in a life-threatening situation and the last thing you want is lots of complex modes and UI to muck around with.

 

[Dave D]

With all due respect, it seems to me your standard as a duty light is quite low. So many aspects you don't care about.

Then again, why does it have to be this light with this price? To meet your standard there are so many options.

"It is a duty light. Nothing else. So you don't need this you don't need that." - Feels to me an argument quite thin.

I think that you are confusing a 'Duty Light' with an 'EDC light', why would you want 'lockout' or 'Moonlight' on a Duty Light?

I fully understand their desirability in an EDC Light.

Why do you feel that a more complex charging port is better?

Tacticool has no place in Duty Lights.

 

[kssmith]

As one who has used a more complex light on duty as well as two versions of the lawman, I much prefer the lawman as my light of choice. There is nothing quite like jumping out of you vehicle in a hurry, needing the highest level of light you can get, only to activate your lowest accidentally and then fumbling through the modes. While still trying to watch the suspects.
First thing I always do however is replace the switch with the mcclicky. I personally prefer those to twisty types. But these are just my opinions.

 

[ktsl]

Oh, then why implement the half lock-out in the tail cap and advertise it at all? And not only the lockout, this light is missing a range of things. Just saying it's a duty light isn't going to get you very far.

I mean I get it. It's US made inside out. There's this unsaid sentimental value in it. But things like this makes you wonder, is surefire nowadays still true to their value, or are they really ripping off their loyal customers? Someone bought this thing for $455.

I think that you are confusing a 'Duty Light' with an 'EDC light', why would you want 'lockout' or 'Moonlight' on a Duty Light?

I fully understand their desirability in an EDC Light.

Why do you feel that a more complex charging port is better?

Tacticool has no place in Duty Lights.

 

[Dave D]

And not only the lockout, this light is missing a range of things.

We agree that the price was ridiculous, it should have been similar to the Streamlight Stinger HL DS, which is probably it's main competitor.

However I carried Surefire's for 20 years of my 30 service as an LEO and the R1 ticks all the boxes from an LEO use point of view.

So I still don't understand your 'Poorly designed' or 'missing a range of things' statements.

 

[ktsl]

I think we've both stated our opinions, and it's pointless to argue. Let me summarize it:

1. We agree this light is designed solely as a "duty light", because it would be missing a lot of things for other purposes.

2. If one were to buy this light as a "duty light", there are a couple of things you might need to watch out for:
a. The battery is proprietary.
b. It uses a pin charging port which may be obsolete compared to micro-usb, or future usb-c.
c. It uses twisty operation. For some it's hard to operate one-handed.
d. It has a "half lockout", you can untwist the tail cap to lock out the tail button, but the head switch is still functional
e. You have to manually unplug it after the charging is done. Or it will discharge itself.

Your conclusion, "As a duty light it's actually well designed." My opinion: no.

We agree for $455 it's just ridiculous.
You think for $150 it's reasonable. I don't think so.

We agree that the price was ridiculous, it should have been similar to the Streamlight Stinger HL DS, which is probably it's main competitor.

However I carried Surefire's for 20 years of my 30 service as an LEO and the R1 ticks all the boxes from an LEO use point of view.

So I still don't understand your 'Poorly designed' or 'missing a range of things' statements.

 

[Kestrel]

Please keep in mind that it's rarely constructive to put words in others' mouths so to speak; so in the interest of this not derailing any further, please be so kind as to consider that aspect. Thank you & best regards,

 

[Dave D]

Duty lights usually have to double up as a tactical light, so a momentary switch is seen as a plus.

It wouldn't be right to remove momentary switches from Duty/Tactical lights because some users struggle to use a twisty switch single handed.

If an Officer doesn't want to use the momentary function then it can be turned on by the head switch without having to twist the tail cap.

 

[dano]

I find it peculiar that there's so many arguments to the R1, but most in this thread revolve around:

Charge port design...No one as taken into account weather resistance, or simplicity. A converted computer spec cord is not needed for simple charging.

Is it a true "duty" light? However that may be defined; under my definitions (tac light vs. duty light), it's more of a hybrid.

Discharging after charge: Never experienced that, and mine is a very early model. Maybe an issue later on in production?

Output...There is no need for these lumen monster lights in day to day "duty" usage. I'd rather have less output, longer runtime, and a light that won't become too hot to the touch. 300-500 Lu is ideal, 750 is pushing the limits of usage. 1000 is too much.

Proprietary battery...This is a BIG negative. I haven't taken one apart, but it does not seem as easy to modify as a Streamlight Strion proprietary cell (at least that style is also used by Nite Eyeze in the T4). Sure, the R1 comes with a CR123 cradle, but that defeats the purpose.

Multiple modes...ugh...single output, only. I've experimented and used strobes on duty, but there are very few lights that have a Hi-Strobe option. Most have a hi-strobe-lo option, which is useless.

 

[Covertghost]

Any Idea where to get a replacement 18650 or if it will just take the standard Surefire Branded 18650s

 

[LRJ88]

Any Idea where to get a replacement 18650 or if it will just take the standard Surefire Branded 18650s

I thought the Lawman used their proprietary battery carrier in the light? If you have the original carrier you could potentially open it up very gently to have a look inside, chances are it's just a regular 18650 in it and not some other size. If it is an 18650 and it isn't spot welded into place then something like a regular Samsung 30q (from a reputable dealer) should be able to go in there without too many issues.

 

[dano]

It's an 18650, but soldered and engineered into that proprietary carrier. I've tried swapping a cell, but the amount of retrofitting made it not a fun task, and didnt really work out well.

 

[Dave D]

Any Idea where to get a replacement 18650 or if it will just take the standard Surefire Branded 18650s

Contact SF customer services, they are able to supply the replacement battery for the R1.

 

[Olumin]

Proprietary battery trouble strikes again! I love the way the R1 looks but from a design perspective I would consider it a faliure. For a light of its size, having it powered by only a single 18650 is a questionable design choice to beginn with.

 

[dano]

Proprietary battery trouble strikes again! I love the way the R1 looks but from a design perspective I would consider it a faliure. For a light of its size, having it powered by only a single 18650 is a questionable design choice to beginn with.

The light came with a cradle for two 123's. Wouldnt be too hard to mod it to accept a common 18650. You'd lose the in-body charging, but it may be an option if a rechargeable 18650 is preferred, or the proprietary cell is no longer produced (and I dont think it is, though SF may still have some).