The IDIOCY of Pink Phobia

[LetThereBeLight!]

My last 3 phones were "pink", i sold an Eagletac just so I could afford a custom one in prison pink, my handcuffs were pink, leading me to become the marketer for pink police equipment at my job (you won't believe how many people begged to be handcuffed by me when I carried them), I had a pink strion, a pink kydex holster for my purple sig-sauer (so many GUYS fought over them when I retired them), and there was never a complaint about the equipment. Spraying my hair blue was a different story...

Funny!

But why did you leave out the part that the color of the emitted light was pink?

 

[LetThereBeLight!]

Lol there ain't men lights and girls lights!  that's like saying I'm going to the store to get some pencils for a girl.If I gave a pink flashlight to one of my daughters they'd throw it at my head 

You won't give them a pink flashlight because you can't find them. Few exist. How do you know they wouldn't hug you?

 

[archimedes]

You won't give them a pink flashlight because you can't find them. Few exist ....

With its strident tone, LOTS OF CAPS, angry title, and ample punctuation !!! ... I'm beginning to wonder how much of this thread is tongue-in-cheek trolling here ?

Simply off the top of my head, plus a quick websearch, I can easily think of or find the following producers of "pink flashlights" ...

SureFire
Malkoff
HDS
Muyshondt
Streamlight
Fenix
Klarus
Nitecore
M@g
Dorcy
ASP
and more I'm sure.

So, I'm not too sure this market is critically underserved.

 

[bigburly912]

Popular auction site brings up 805 results. Knock yourself out

 

[idleprocess]

SKU proliferation. It's a thing. Businesses are well aware of the costs and will only provide as much variety as there is profitable demand for.

My SO likes all things pink, but has come to the grudging realization that pigmentation preference comes at the expense of selection. In a similar vein, being unusually tall greatly restricts my ability to procure clothing since the broader retail industry stopped bothering to routinely stock pants with 36" inseams going on 20 years ago.

As others have mentioned, outside of CPF, flashlights are a low-involvement purchase for most consumers - whatever's less than $20 at the megalomart and looks like it will fit their need in the <5 minutes they spend deciding. Color is apt not to be a primary decision. And even with high-involvement consumers - i.e. CPF - tactical black remains popular since purchasing decisions tend to be technical rather than emotional.

For what it's worth I might jump on the 'Toykeeper edition' FW3A if it's released, which is apt to be purple or pink.

 

[desert.snake]

I see many sites that offer pink parts for AR-15. You can ask them how sales are going.


In my opinion, the attribution of women pink color, this is some kind of sexism as well as blue for boys.


My girls don't care what color the flashlight is. They don't even care what the shade and pattern of rays is. They are not interested in type of batteries. Interest brings only brightness and work time and price and price of use.


When I bought this pink in a pair for an older version of blue, they asked how much it cost. At that time, it was 15% more expensive than the older blue version. I was scolded for the excessive expense of the family budget and not gave hugs 1,5 weeks.

 

[LRJ88]

Women who "already go for it" was not my focus; my focus is that flashlight companies don't seem to care about marketing to women, one piece of evidence of such is the near sheer absence of the color pink. Pink sells! Many other industries know this and profit from it! This industry thinks otherwise, and without substantive proof. Women have had the right to vote in the U.S. for less than a hundred years. Why don't they have the right to a small, efficient, aesthetically pleasing pink flashlight? The answer is that some companies choose to believe either that women do not exist or drop not care. I amply challenged those beliefs that I have not yet seen refuted. Then they blame women for not buying the pink light they want to discontinue after not making NO effort to market to them! It's the old "blame the victim" mentality. My challenging that has apparently rocked the boat. I can handle it. Why can't they?

Note: despite my efforts to differentiate my words from the responder's, it did not come out "right" and I take responsibility for that. I apologize for that. I guess I need to take a class!

Pink already exists, as shown in this thread. Women exist and women who like flashlights exist, but overall the amount of women who are flashaholics or actually care to get a good flashlight and just go based on it being pink aren't exactly worth spending thousands of dollars on. Women who really are into getting a good tool for the job don't care as much about the colour of the flashlight as the beam quality and reliability of it, and those who don't care about that will get a cheaper pink flashlight just because of the colour and it'll likely end up being a cheapo Chinese one.

Your challenge isn't valid in the real world of commerce the way you've put it, those companies know that they'd lose more on making 5,000 pink flashlights and selling 5% due to prohibitive cost for the market you suggest, as opposed to just making black flashlights and selling 90% to the market that hasn't cared about the colour before either without any new contracts or added steps on another anodising process.

To put this another way that can also be misconstrued as sexist, why don't more companies target men with their moisturisers? Why don't they market them as "FUSION POWER SKIN CARE 2000™, WITH EXTRA COLLAGEN INFUSION FOR ADDED POWER!!!" to market them more to men, it's a huge untapped part of the market that they could go for, but instead they mainly focus on women with slogans such as "Because you're worth it". Is it because men in general don't give a single flying f*ck about skincare apart from washing normally and putting on some deodourant and it'd be a huge waste to put money into a moisturiser that smells like generic chemical smell #1 when it won't sell anyway, or is it because they think men don't exist and complain that men don't buy it anyway when there's been NO effort to market whatever to them?

Your rhetoric comes across as incredibly sexist when you try to speak for women and you aggressively try to push your point without actually listening and understanding the replies you've gotten. It isn't an easy equation, especially when in a lot of cases when it comes to plastics for example pink costs more, to make a pink anodising that's as durable as black you'd have to take extra steps, after making them pink you'd have to market them and try to market a $80 flashlight as something that you really need with this lumen count or that IP rating to people who in general aren't interested in that to begin with.

 

[Ozythemandias]

For everyone discounting this thread or saying it's sexist, keep in mind that Gillette had a press release a couple years ago that men and women's razors use the exact same blades and technology. Not only that, but they charge more for the women's stuff. This is super common across plenty products and there's even the whole "Pink Tax" drama. Of course, there may be some differences, but in general, the difference is in the marketing.

Based on the data I have, about 6-8% of flashlight enthusiasts are women. So perhaps the brands find it easier to market to 92% of the market than attempt to grow a niche subset of an already niche market. Whether this is a mistake or not, I cant say. I wish we can grow that segment but I have no idea how. Cute stickers maybe?

(I own the picture above, plz no steal)

 

[parametrek]

Go to any flashlight company's website and count all the PINK lights. You will find that they comprise about .000025% of all their offerings.

A quick check at my flashlight database puts it at 1.43%. That still isn't much but it is a factor of 500000x difference from your estimate

Regarding other hi viz colors orange comes in a 4.6% and yellow at 7.3%. I guess shiny silver should count for something too? 5.6% there. Glow in the dark is even rarer than pink at 1.2%.

Am I mistaken, or isn't the founder of CPF a woman? (Greta). If so, thank you, Greta! It took a woman! (Does it always? Hehe).

CPF was founded by a (presumably) guy who went by DavidW.

 

[LRJ88]

For everyone discounting this thread or saying it's sexist, keep in mind that Gillette had a press release a couple years ago that men and women's razors use the exact same blades and technology. Not only that, but they charge more for the women's stuff. This is super common across plenty products and there's even the whole "Pink Tax" drama. Of course, there may be some differences, but in general, the difference is in the marketing.

Based on the data I have, about 6-8% of flashlight enthusiasts are women. So perhaps the brands find it easier to market to 92% of the market than attempt to grow a niche subset of an already niche market. Whether this is a mistake or not, I cant say. I wish we can grow that segment but I have no idea how. Cute stickers maybe?


(I own the picture above, plz no steal)

Pink plastic also costs more to produce than black or blue plastic, if the production cost for a product is higher for variant A than variant B then variant A will cost more, you can't charge less and hope it'll even out or charge more and lose customers. Women are more willing to pay more for a product due to the cosmetics of it than men are overall, meaning that if it was the opposite men would be more likely to buy the pink razor because it's the same thing but another colour.

 

[radellaf]

For everyone discounting this thread or saying it's sexist, keep in mind that Gillette had a press release a couple years ago that men and women's razors use the exact same blades and technology. Not only that, but they charge more for the women's stuff.

And, that's kind of a sexist marketing practice. If you want an example that got even more laughing (or "drama"?) take a look at the ill-conceived marketing of "Bic For Her" pens. As if a slim barrel and pretty pastel colors wouldn't appeal to any men. As if women needed to be told "hey! these are for you!"
Any sort of gendered marketing is very easily a step over the line towards patronizing, so (IMHO) it's way better to just offer the colors or styles and let them speak for themselves. I'd way rather have pink and floral than black with a silver skull or spiky things on it. Black with a bright floral is especially pretty. Pilot G2 Victoria pens, for instance. I think that's better marketing. Sure, Victoria is a female name, but it just as much makes me think of Victorian England and the aesthetic style of the era. It's more subtle than "for her."

That said, I'd love to see more color offerings for flashlights, especially high visibility. I kinda hate yellow or yellow-orange, though, even though it serves the purpose. Convoy has some nice colors like the purple. Sure, the anodize isn't as tough, but it's a trade-off I'm willing to make. Thick, hard anodize like a Zebralight still dents and scratches easily, so I'm not that sold on the general utility of anodize as anything but decoration. I also rarely take my lights outside. Maybe for serious use it makes more of a difference (softer things like wood it rubs against?) Not tough enough that I can use the H53 clip without scratches, no matter what color it was. Or drop it on the bathroom floor without denting the bezel. That's the kind of toughness I'd like to see. Pelikan and UK are tough, and come in a yellow that almost does glow in the dark. Styles aren't great.

I haven't "passionately" posted about a lack of color because, well, I guess I'm not _that_ passionate about it. Also, I tend to post about either info I have or info I'm looking for. Something has to really bug me for me to post a pure complaint with little or no hope it'll make any difference. SkyRC's 50mA trickle and the H53 clip have bugged me lately, but I just replied about those rather than starting a thread.

 

[Monocrom]

This is literally the most sexist thing I've read in a long time and you aren't even trying to make it that way haha. I'm surprised women aren't on here bashing the hell out of you.

Just gonna pull up a chair, and wait for Greta to find this thread.

 

[Ozythemandias]

And, that's kind of a sexist marketing practice. If you want an example that got even more laughing (or "drama"?) take a look at the ill-conceived marketing of "Bic For Her" pens. As if a slim barrel and pretty pastel colors wouldn't appeal to any men. As if women needed to be told "hey! these are for you!"

To be fair, Gillette does have differences in the ergonomics and handle shapes, so it's not like it's just the same razor in a different color. Whether those differences actually matter or not, I have no idea.

Maybe it's not my place to have an opinion but I don't see marketing to segments as sexist or discriminatory. From a marketers point of view, you sell BLACK RIFLE COFFEE (tm) to one crowd, deodorant branded as women's to a different crowd and a keyboard with RGB and a sharply angled mouse to a different crowd. There have been plenty of studies on differences in consumption and purchasing habits across genders, age, race etc. and it makes sense to sell to different segments differently. Marketing is awesome (and also horrible) as it's not political or morally driven, it's all about the data. There's no agenda other than money (greed?).

Edit: To be clear, I cant say simply making a pink light is a good idea from a business perspective, and when executed without finesse its simply pandering. That being said, if you consider it sexism as it plays off stereotypes (albeit ones supported by data), almost all of marketing utilizes stereotyping and as such is racist, abelist, ageist etc.

Edit 2: Maybe I'm biased because I just want a pink flashlight.

 

[tjb]

Okay, so here's something interesting to consider.

Originally, something (we'll go with razors just to choose one among many examples) was marketed to nobody in general, and it was assumed that men would be the buyer.

Then, to differentiate from the pack, manufacturers made their product more manly, more masculine, and thus the target audience became men specifically.

Then the marketers (or women groups) decided it was unfair or sexist that a company didn't make/market a product "for them". They got mad, and so we had a rash of "for her" (strong enough for a man - made for a woman) products hit the market. They were softer, curvier, pink, whatever. And that was to be less sexist.

And then now, those same feminist groups or marketers have gotten weirdly complicated and said "why is pink automatically feminine? My daughter/wife/sister can like blue just as much as pink. My son/husband/brother can like pink - it's not just for girls. Gender-normative is the new nazi" type of thing. So suddenly the solution that used to be the definition of inclusion - making feminine-styled versions of products - has suddenly flipped to be the new definition of sexist, presuming to force Barbie style on women being the depths of sexism.

I'm not sure I worded that all properly (I'm not a lawyer or politician), but I think you catch my meaning. It's just an interesting phenomenon to see yesterday's gender-inclusion practices suddenly flip to be considered the depths of sexism. Make sense?

People are dumb.

 

[bykfixer]

My wife says pink is implies negative messages. She likes to adjust attitudes of dope smoking hippies with rainbow colored stuff.

 

[Kestrel]

Just gonna pull up a chair, and wait for Greta to find this thread.

Or Empath ?

Judging by the breadth of the discussion here, I have moved this thread to /The Cafe/.

 

[LRJ88]

Okay, so here's something interesting to consider.

Originally, something (we'll go with razors just to choose one among many examples) was marketed to nobody in general, and it was assumed that men would be the buyer.

Then, to differentiate from the pack, manufacturers made their product more manly, more masculine, and thus the target audience became men specifically.

Then the marketers (or women groups) decided it was unfair or sexist that a company didn't make/market a product "for them". They got mad, and so we had a rash of "for her" (strong enough for a man - made for a woman) products hit the market. They were softer, curvier, pink, whatever. And that was to be less sexist.

And then now, those same feminist groups or marketers have gotten weirdly complicated and said "why is pink automatically feminine? My daughter/wife/sister can like blue just as much as pink. My son/husband/brother can like pink - it's not just for girls. Gender-normative is the new nazi" type of thing. So suddenly the solution that used to be the definition of inclusion - making feminine-styled versions of products - has suddenly flipped to be the new definition of sexist, presuming to force Barbie style on women being the depths of sexism.

I'm not sure I worded that all properly (I'm not a lawyer or politician), but I think you catch my meaning. It's just an interesting phenomenon to see yesterday's gender-inclusion practices suddenly flip to be considered the depths of sexism. Make sense?

People are dumb.

Your argument is perfectly understandable, and sadly it's becoming more and more common to see this where something that was originally made to placate a group of people suddenly gets seen as something negative towards them, even if it actively hurts the people this new product actually was for.

 

[LeanBurn]

It's not just with flashlights, it's with everything. In comparison to the myriad of other colors out there, pink is just not a popular color with almost everything you can think of. Tools, cars, appliances, furnishings, homes, even most clothes in a store....very few pink items to be found. It isn't perceived as an elegant color either so it isn't found on anything I know if that is expensive marketed to the rich and famous. I don't own a single item that is pink. My wife doesn't like it, my girls don't even care for the color in general let alone have an item with that color. As an accent color sure if it compliments well, but not a stand alone.

Its good that there are people with varying opinions on colors to give that spectrum splash on life. I do think though that there are some colors that are more popular than others and it shows.

 

[Greta]

Wow. So much to say about this thread!

I guess I'll start with the burning issue that everyone is waiting with baited breath for me to weigh in on...

---- Yup! I think it's VERY sexist! All I can think of is the KelTec pink camo PMR 30. First time I saw that I was totally offended. It's like... we girls are so stupid about guns that the only way we'll be attracted to them or buy them is if they are pink... CAMO no less! "OMG!! It's so CUTE!!!"... yeah... we're that kind of dumb. :huh: - The way I see it is if someone is interested in a product because of its color, they seriously know nothing at all about that product to begin with and are not likely to develop an interest because let's face it... buying a gun or a flashlight cuz it's pink... is pretty shallow, superficial... and well... dumb.

Regarding men's and women's razors...

---- They actually ARE built differently! Sure they use the same blades but the housing and functionality of each of them is different. We women use those shavers on WAY more body parts than men do. Manufacturers have taken that into consideration and adjusted the movement of the razor head as well as the handle for different grips on the shaver to accommodate the different topography we women have to navigate around and over. At first men's and women's shavers looked pretty much the same so you really couldn't tell the difference if you put the two together in the shower. So Bic started making them in different colors so people could tell them apart.. because they WERE different. Yes, it was very cliche they went with blue for boys and pink for girls.. but it really was the most logical choice for the purpose.

As far as making a pink flashlight and putting my name on it? ---- I will hunt you down with my pink camo gun and hit you over the head with it... cuz, you know... I'm too dumb to know how to use it properly. But it's SO CUTE!!!

(Just kidding about owning a pink camo gun - Only way I would own one of those is to use it for target practice with my black Baby Glock )

And the most obvious response to why manufacturers do not make products to appeal to certain demographics is because they would be wasting their time and money. I'm sure they have done their research to determine where the largest interest is and who is their largest market. Obviously the market for pink flashlights is just not there regardless of the gender of the buyer. In addition one has to just look at the demographics of something like CPF to see there is a higher interest in flashlights by men than women. It's not very scientific, of course, but it does matter when it comes to marketing. Is THAT sexist? Nope. Just smart marketing. Why fill up your inventory with a bunch of pink flashlights when the majority of your buyers are NOT going to buy them? :shrug:

 

[knucklegary]

My wife says pink is implies negative messages. She likes to adjust attitudes of dope smoking hippies with rainbow colored stuff.

I am so glad my wife likes the rainbow color of Ti plated PL2.
Johnny, You'll never see it on my key chain :sick2: