The Tint Snob Thread

[Tachead]

Ok, not tried it with any other cool white, but I will have a go.

I know my HDS has low CRI, and the colours (albeit only greens and browns when I tested it at a golf course last night) from the EagleTac were very similar to the HDS. That's why I assumed it also has low CRI?

Before last night, I have tried it on my kids toys (that have a lot of colours) and the reds certainly do seem vibrant with the EagleTac.

Why did the colours of this Eagletac seems awfully similar to that of the low CRI HDS, when tested out on the green (and browns)?

Its hard to say for sure without testing both and comparing the spectral graph but, it could be that the HDS has similar green and brown values. Remember that CRI is only a small part of the picture and only takes the average of 8 colour samples into account. It is actually one of the least accurate systems to measure a light sources colour rendering(especially LED). You can have two emitters with the same CRI value but, one can be better in certain spectrums then the other because it is an average. Also, you may just prefer the way a certain emitter renders a certain colour. That does not however mean the one you prefer is the more accurate rendering and closer to the way it will look in sunlight. Colour temperature can have an effect on the way colours look too as tint will change along the black body radiation line(yellow/orange towards the warm side and blue/purple towards the cold). Then there is the tint difference when the a light sources falls above or below the black body radiation line.

This is a complicated subject.

 

[Dr Forinor]

Greens and blues are colors Low CRI emitters tend not to be so bad with.

Ok I understand the part where greens may not be too bad with low CRI emitters. But then the greens looked so similar in the HDS and EagleTac, but the greens looked very different in those 2 when compared to the Malkoff and Haiku XP-G2. I assume the greens were better represented in the Malkoff/Haiku, and since they were different than the HDS/EagleTac, one of these pairs must be out?

Its hard to say for sure without testing both and comparing the spectral graph but, it could be that the HDS has similar green and brown values. Remember that CRI is only a small part of the picture and only takes the average of 8 colour samples into account. It is actually one of the least accurate systems to measure a light sources colour rendering(especially LED). You can have two emitters with the same CRI value but, one can be better in certain spectrums then the other because it is an average. Also, you may just prefer the way a certain emitter renders a certain colour. That does not however mean the one you prefer is the more accurate rendering and closer to the way it will look in sunlight. Colour temperature can have an effect on the way colours look too as tint will change along the black body radiation line(yellow/orange towards the warm side and blue/purple towards the cold). Then there is the tint difference when the a light sources falls above or below the black body radiation line.

This is a complicated subject.

Not half complicated!!! :duh2:

 

[twistedraven]

This picture shows the difference in how well the 5700k Nichia renders skin tones than a 5700k Cree rated at 70CRI.

CRI is a limited measurement, and only tells but a small part of the overall story in how accurate a light source is. Where the light lies on the black body locus, and its color temperature, are all important too, as are other measurements of color samples not stated in the CRI standard. Deep Red (R9) is one such sample, that is not listed under the CRI standard. As an example of how inaccurate CRI can be, we can take a 2700k incandescent with 100 listed CRI, and struggle to be able to differentiate blacks from purple, compared to a cool white Cree led at 5700k, whose CRI is only 70.

 

[jon_slider]

That picture helps a LOT!

It would also help to know the actual specs of the LEDs being tested. For example, I dont know if the Haiku XP-G2 is high CRI. None of my XP-G2 are high CRI

One of the simplest and practical ways I know to compare CRI is by illuminating the palm of my hand.
High CRI: (notice how much pink this image shows)

Low CRI: (notice the lack of pink)

Another way is to illuminate a standard Color chart

 

[Dr Forinor]

Ok, I'm gonna have to take pictures.

 

[degarb]

That picture helps a LOT!

It would also help to know the actual specs of the LEDs being tested. For example, I dont know if the Haiku XP-G2 is high CRI. None of my XP-G2 are high CRI

One of the simplest and practical ways I know to compare CRI is by illuminating the palm of my hand.
High CRI: (notice how much pink this image shows)

Low CRI: (notice the lack of pink)

Another way is to illuminate a standard Color chart

My hand look more like the 70 cri, outside today.

Are we talking tint preference, or tint benefits?

I have slight interest in preference - near zero. . Benefits, I am hugely interested in. I wish to learn them all. As well as methods of measuring temperature, cri, or any superior scale.

Seeing subtle shade difference in white (flat to glossy samples) may be place to start.

 

[jon_slider]

Are we talking tint preference, or tint benefits?

good question
tint has more than one meaning
most people misuse the word tint, when they actually mean color temperature

4500k Color Temperature, happens coincidentally to also sometimes occur with High CRI.
For example an N219b 90+CRI @ 4500k

6000k Color Temperature, happens to coincidentally usually occur with Low CRI
For example, my Olight i3s, and Maratac, use XP-G2 70CRI @ 6000k

so as a "tint snob", Im actually a CRI snob, but I also avoid 6000k LEDs, because they happen to almost always be, 70CRI
For example, as a Tint Snob I avoid Cool White (6000k), not because it is just too "blue", but because it does not show Red well.

So for benefits, High CRI, which is also usually not Cool White, is that red wires will look red under High CRI, but those same red wires will look brown under Cool White with Low CRI.

then there is "tint" for a particular LED, within the same Color temperature.
For example, I have two High CRI LEDs that are both 4500k, but one is more yellow, and the other is more pink. These are tint differences. I personally prefer pink tint over yellow or green tint. But that says nothing about whether the LED is 4500k, or 3000k.

Another place language gets vague is with terms like Cool White, Neutral White, Warm white. People disagree what numbers those categories fall into. For example, some people think 5000k Color temperature is Neutral white, other disagree and say it is too "cool". Imo it is much more specific to name the Color Temperature, than what kind of "white" an LED produces.

 

[tech25]

After having a few lights with various tints and CRI, I have a question. I found with one of my lights- a 4000k light with a lower CRI showed colors better then a 93 CRI at 5000k, what am I not understanding?

 

[jon_slider]

can you post a photo of your hand with each light?
and specific info on the LEDs you are comparing?

 

[degarb]

After having a few lights with various tints and CRI, I have a question. I found with one of my lights- a 4000k light with a lower CRI showed colors better then a 93 CRI at 5000k, what am I not understanding?

One contributor here told me the temperature had far more roll than cri, for people. Like I said, I am interested in benefits, methods for quantification, not preferences.

 

[twistedraven]

After having a few lights with various tints and CRI, I have a question. I found with one of my lights- a 4000k light with a lower CRI showed colors better then a 93 CRI at 5000k, what am I not understanding?

That shouldn't be the case on a technical scale, only a personally subjective scale. Perhaps you want your light to render your surroundings like an incandescent bulb or setting sun, as opposed to midday sun etc.

 

[tech25]

can you post a photo of your hand with each light?
and specific info on the LEDs you are comparing?

I had an eagletac with a 219B 5000k, but sold it, comparing to an OkLuma with 4000k XPL's. Probably not such a fair comparison due to single vs. triple leds.

 

[tech25]

That shouldn't be the case on a technical scale, only a personally subjective scale. Perhaps you want your light to render your surroundings like an incandescent bulb or setting sun, as opposed to midday sun etc.

I do like incandescent color, but prefer the runtime and brightness of an LED.

 

[Random Dan]

An LED with a CCT of 4000k will have it's CRI measured compared with the blackbody radiator line at 4000k, while an LED with a CCT of 5000k will have it's CRI measured compared with the blackbody radiator line at 5000k. I've found that I like 85 CRI at 4000k better than 93 CRI at 5000k for color rendering, but that's preference thing.

 

[Thom2022]

I've just received my sliced XM-L2 T6-4C for use in my C8. I have to say I'm loving it. It's my dog walking light and it's so much more pleasing to the eye than I could have imagined. There is a bit of a green hue around the hot spot but in the higher modes this becomes less noticeable. This has now prompted me to put together a triple nichia S2+ build.

 

[NutSAK]

Yuji 5mm 3200K high CRI = TINT WIN

 

[tech25]

An LED with a CCT of 4000k will have it's CRI measured compared with the blackbody radiator line at 4000k, while an LED with a CCT of 5000k will have it's CRI measured compared with the blackbody radiator line at 5000k. I've found that I like 85 CRI at 4000k better than 93 CRI at 5000k for color rendering, but that's preference thing.

Thanks- so CRI is not the be all end all. Tint does play a big role.

 

[staticx57]

CRI will only tell you how accurate the colors are compared to an ideal light source at a particular color temperature. Both an incandescent bulb and the sun have CRI of 100 but as you can tell they look different.

CRI is only part of the puzzle, not the whole puzzle.

 

[Thom2022]

So as the cct of daylight (mid day) is around 5700-6200k then a light with a cct of 5500-6000k with a CRI of 90+ is going be a very close simulation of daylight?

 

[Tachead]

Thanks- so CRI is not the be all end all. Tint does play a big role.

For sure but, if you have 2 lights with the same colour temperature and tint, the one with the higher CRI will still be superior.

I personally pick my lights based on colour temperature first, then tint and CRI. I would rather have light with a temperature that I like and low CRI then one with high CRI and a temperature that I hate. Same goes for tint, I would rather have a light with a mediocre tint but, be the temp I like then a perfect tint in a temp I hate.

As Static said, CRI is only part of the big picture.