This is pretty messed up...

Aaron1100us

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Dec 3, 2005
Messages
649
Location
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Someone needs to get that kid a mag 85 or UCL. That'd scare the crap out of an intruder in a dark house. There are alot of arguments about guns for home defense. I think that is different for everyone. Personally, I have a Glock 22 in .40 caliber with hollowpoints. But its not just for home defense, mostly target practice and annoying racoons up in the barn. What about a tazer other non-leathal weapons if the person doesn't want a gun? But then, there is the thing about those non leathal weapons not doing much. If someone is all cranked up on crack or really crazy, non leathal weapons don't allways work. Prevention is probably the best thing. Outdoor lights with and without motion sensors, no shrubs or bushes near house, dead bolted doors, audible security alarm, dogs and fences around property are probably the best things to do.
 

stela

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Jun 6, 2006
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Lisbon,Portugal
Lightraven said:
Once somebody is already in the house, they can a do a lot of damage. Most of the effort here should be into keeping intruders out.

In the case of Richard Ramirez, the Los Angeles "Night Stalker", some victims woke up to him hitting them with a hammer. The men were usually murdered in their beds. The women were killed later.

Last night at work, I drove down "Danielle Van Damme Memorial Freeway" named for the El Cajon little girl was abducted, raped and murdered by David Westerfield, who is now on death row.

As for the gun stuff:

In one hostage barricade case I read about, a SWAT team member on the perimeter fired a load of buck at the hostage taker when the team stormed in. One of the pellets killed a hostage who was running to escape.

A few weeks ago, I spent 8 days of firearms training that included learning how to make a hostage rescue shot with a handgun. We received a lecture from a celebrated cop who has done it himself at 14 feet 7 inches with a semi auto pistol--a single head shot. He then observed our hostage rescue training.

One of my coworkers recently put three handgun rounds into the head, neck and chest of a moving bad guy who was inches from a bunch of no-shoots. Half the time I face a threat, he (or she) has no-shoots around him or her.

I am no expert on home invasions, so my opinion is only that.

The Box o' Truth is a retired cop. He seems to know what he's talking about. Here's what he has to say:

But doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a home?
Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad guys. If our only concern was to be sure we didn't penetrate walls, we would use BB guns. However, BB guns will not stop bad guys.

Therefore, we must use loads that will STOP bad guys, and this means that they will also penetrate walls. So, be sure you hit the bad guy and do not shoot into walls where loved ones are on the other side.
Richard Ramirez "The Night Stalker" kills most of the time with a gun (shot in the head) and sometimes kills with a knife (cutting throats). Kill someone with a hammer was an isolated case. Richard Ramirez let some victims (children and some women) alive. Richard Ramirez is a very different behaviour pattern of serial killers.
 
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stela

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Jun 6, 2006
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Lisbon,Portugal
Lightraven said:
Once somebody is already in the house, they can a do a lot of damage. Most of the effort here should be into keeping intruders out.

In the case of Richard Ramirez, the Los Angeles "Night Stalker", some victims woke up to him hitting them with a hammer. The men were usually murdered in their beds. The women were killed later.
 
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not2bright

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Joined
Aug 3, 2005
Messages
396
Location
St. Louis, MO USA
TedTheLed said:
Chevro, I was going by this statement of yours:

Originally Posted by chevrofreak
If I'm not pinstriping the street I'm not accelerating fast enough

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=116015



Sorry if I have accused you wrongly.

Pin striping the street while accelerating isn't necessarily an indication of speeding. It is an indication of having more power than traction. :laughing:

Back to the topic. I agree with the shotgun group. Simply racking the slide makes a sound that would cause most intruders to flee.

That said, I do not keep my 870 readily available. For some reason I feel better with the Glock 19 filled with hollow point 147g +p loads by the nightstand. Keep in mind, we have never had kids in our home. If our friends were to kids over with them, the magazine would be pulled and kept in a safe location.
 

dca2

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Feb 23, 2006
Messages
204
Location
Shreveport, LA
According to the CDC statistics for 1999, Unintentional Injuries that caused death to ages 10-14, all races, both sexes:

MV Traffic 904
Drowning 177
Fire/Burn 92
Suffocation 78
Other Land Transport 73
Firearm 57
Pedestrian, other 46

direct link to table quoted

Firarms ranked #11 for ages 5-9

link to table

There were 713 more accidental poisonings than accidental firearm deaths for 15-24 year olds. A better question than "Before your child goes to a friend's house, you should ask the friend's parent whether the family has firearms in the house, and how they are stored?" might be "Do you keep Drano in the house?"

table for these numbers

WISQARS Fatal Injuries: Leading Causes of Death Reports (CDC)

Not trying to start a battle, but statistics can be made to say ANYTHING when ALL numbers are not given/explained thoroughly.

Dave
 

zespectre

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
2,197
Location
Lost in NY
Okay, people are worked up so let's all take a moment and grab a couple of deep breaths. Good, now that we've done that...

-VTUnderground, glad to hear your friend and his family are okay.

To others, having one or more guns in that household does not sound like the best solution -for that situation-.

1) Getting a gun of any sort right now is a knee-jerk reaction by someone who is already scared. Not a good mix in a house of kids.

2) Getting a gun right now probably means that person has little/no experience with guns. To use a gun effectively and appropriately requires TRAINING and PRACTICE!

3) A gun in an enclosed place is really damn LOUD and places your hearing at risk.

4) Scared kids. If these kids are not already familiar with respecting and handling firearms, and how to behave when someone else in the house has a firearm, then adding guns into the mix NOW when they are scared and prone to overreacting is a really BAD idea.

I suspect that for this situation your friend would be far better served by improving the security of his house, putting a small can of pepper spray in each person's nightstand (accidental pepperspray discharge is unpleasant but not fatal) and maybe getting a small, nervous, yappy type of dog.

Hard to make any further recommendations without knowing more specifics for your friend's place and lifestyle.
 

CanDo

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Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
94
KILL HIM
:xyxgun::xyxgun:

Alright, first of all, get dogs. As long as no one in the family has a phobia of them or anything, get a huge mastiff and a huge german shephard. The kids are old enough that as long as the dog respects you while they're raised, there won't be any issue with maulings or anything like that.
They are the BEST alarm system, plus they can kill. Don't leave them outside on a chain! It's not really fair to them, plus they aren't as effective tied up as they would be right inside the house. Train them to be loveable family pets as opposed to vicious attack dogs. If the time comes, they'll know how to attack or at the VERY least bark and growl. I don't like electronic alarms very much, just don't trust them... what if they're circumvented or the power goes off or something?
Lock all windows.
Give the kids a very high power flashlight with a TID, and a can of bear mace. Maybe the 16 year old is responsible enough to handle something more powerful...(I don't really know what... Taser/stun gun/knife Just food for thought, there are some teens who would be responsible enough, i'm not advocating that all kids should be armed by any means)...
Consider shifting the rooms around... If possible it might make the most sense to have the kids sleeping in the least accesible part of the house, or where an intruder would have to walk by the parents room.
No one has mentioned giving the wife firearm training. Especially since the husband is away on business sometimes, this may be most crucial.
I think that pretty much solves the issue. Be ever vigiliant, look out when you're going in and out of rooms/house. Never walk looking at your feet. Never have your eyes focused on one object. Allow yourself to see everything at once... takes a bit of practice but could save your life.

Personally, I can't yet legally own a gun, and don't know all that much about them. I'm with the people who say that they must be accesible, they don't do any good otherwise. I'd keep a handgun close and a shotgun locked up for if you have some advanced notice.
I have a heavy compound bow, and several broadhead arrows. The design is such that you don't have to worry about the arrow falling off or anything. Sure it's tricky to maneuver, but I'm not going to be doing any hostage rescue (I am the kid after all); it would just be waiting for the *%^(^% to open the door. Hmm.... mounting a blinding light onto a bow would be an interesting project, if not an entirely practical one.
In the event that I don't have time to arm the compound bow, I have a '1MCP' spotlight (it's actually a pretty decent one) which, to someone with eyes adjusted to darkness, is absolutely blinding. Though puny in comparison to some of your lights, just the light reflecting off of a brown wall in the dark 7 ft. away hurts your eyes. So, I just have to remember to close my dominant eye.
I also keep a hatchet and knife right next to the spotlight.
The hatchet is primary close quarters weapon, the thing I'd grab after taking a shot with the bow. It's also good if there's enough time to get out of bed, but not enough to get the bow ready.
Lastly, the knife is a last resort if the person is already just a couple feet away from you. It's also good to hold in the hand not wielding the hatchet.
>>I don't know any fancy tricks or moves or anything with these weapons, And I wouldn't depend on them If I did, especially in a high stress situation after just waking up. Basic strategy is, charge, swing the club/hatchet/nunchaku, and half a second later plunge the knife.
I can reach the spotlight, hatchet, and knife, without having to move in bed at all except for my arm.

Thoughout the house:
Staff of some hardwood, just under shoulder height, very heavy
Short and thick hardwood stick a bit higher than my belt. VERY dense wood.
Nunchaku (again, I've had very limitided training, and would never try any sorts of moderately fancy moves. The multiplication of force however is extreme. A smallish person could easily crack the ribs of an attacker with a pair of these)
Baseball bat (self explanatory)
Various hammers, from the standard 16 oz. to roofing hammers about the same size as medieveal war hammers
Various straight and folding knives

These are scattered throughout the house in places that I'm most frequently at. Bedroom, Desk, TV area, and Workshop (haha, as though there aren't enough improvised weapons there already; likewise I'm not too worried about the kitchen).... Wouldn't just getting a gun simplify things a whole lot?


OK, just wanted to get that out there to an audience who won't consider me 110% nuts ;)
Back to more general. You can have the greatest weapons and training in the world, but without the absolute determination and will to use them, it won't do any good. You just have to prepare mentally and condition yourself. Adrenaline will most certainly help:
Once, a guy walked by my front door in the shadows, no car in the driveway or anything. I live a fairly decent ways from other houses and the road, so it was pretty sketchy. I grabbed the nunchaku and a good knife, and adrenaline really takes over. I was scared and confused, but not in the traditional sense- your heart just beats faster, your muscles just feel a lot stronger. Your mind stays perfectly cool and is able to analyze the situation well. In fact in times of extreme stress (falling off a ladder or something) time may actually slow down, and you can think a minutes worth of thoughts in half a second (happened to me a couple times anyway). But that's a completely Different subject. Basically, when you are ready to fight for your life, your body and mind really step up the challenge. You'll be waiting for that chance to just swing your weapon, and dive with the knife... it's really strange, but you actually feel/simulate exactly how it would feel without trying, at that point you'll want it more than anything (kind of scary, but I suppose it's helpful).
Anyway, I scanned the yard with the spotlight, and apparently the guy just left. Not a good story, but I'm very thankful that that's how it turned out.

Wo0Ow. Sorry about all that ranting. I guess I just wanted to get my personal beliefs out on the subject. If you're still reading this, your attention span is some 500x greater than mine.



Oh, and just another note. I know that you guys here know this, but to the hapless wanderer coming from google: Flashlights are excellent tools. They are nothing more however, and are not magic. If your life depends on one, use it, but don't just stand around. You HAVE to take the oppurtunity that the blinding light gives you to run or to strike your attacker, it won't last forever after all.

Ok, I'm glad to hear that everyone's ok. Stay safe. Be Constantly ready, have sincere will to do whatever is necessary to protect your life (I suppose this is a lot easier to have when you're fighting for your children... but I don't have any so wouldn't know). Get dog(s). May that freak's head be filled with lead, to put it a bit more bluntly.
 
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