To Darell-80 mpg diesel hybrid-real or not?

[Darell]

Re: To Darryl-80 mpg diesel hybrid-real or not?

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Frangible said:
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How about running cars off the grid as I suggested

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In order to do that you'd need one of two things:

-- better batteries than today's technology

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Nah. We need batteries that are better than *yesterday's* technology. Today's batteries are awesome. It is just that only a few EVs have attempted to use them. We need them to be cheaper, and mass produced. Better is ... well, better, but today's are awesome.

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-- hydrogen fuel cells

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Oh, please don't go there. If we don't have enough power for battery electrics, then we sure don't have enough power for FCV! But I see you're already aware of many of the FC issues...

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I believe good progress will continue to be made with solar and wind but neither are quite "there" yet.

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It is certainly here for me! Seriously. For $10k up front, I buy no more gasoline or pay a power bill for the house for the next 30 or 40 years. We're "there" - just nobody really knows about it.

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I think another avenue that also has to be pursued is conservation... which isn't too popular in these days of city skyglows and V8 hemis.

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We're singing the same tune here!

(OK, now Turbodog is pulling at the leash...)

 

[jtr1962]

Re: To Darryl-80 mpg diesel hybrid-real or not?

Darell,

Do you think solar power would be feasible in a place like NYC? I'm personally getting sick and tired of the rates Con Ed (very appropriate name BTW) charges. And yes, I think it's a well kept secret that with rates over $0.15/KW-hr in many places the payback time for solar power is only a few years.

I also think it's a shame EVs aren't being pursued now. You can still do R&D for fuel cells or better batteries but in the meantime EVs with a range of 100 miles or more will satisfy 99% of drivers 99.9% of the time. The once or twice a year that a person might take a very long road trip they can just rent a regular car. Even though no commercial EVs are being sold, nothing is stopping some entreprenuer from converting gasoline cars to electrics and reselling them. If I had the cash of Bill Gates, I'd do it at a loss just to spite the automakers.

 

[cobb]

Re: To Darryl-80 mpg diesel hybrid-real or not?

As for trains, you are right. They dump the power generated to large carbon packs to slow it down and use a series of serial and parallel configuations that switch on the fly to give it low speed high torque to high speed low torque by going from all parallel to all serial. I was on an amtrak train where the engine failed, but it was able to keep coasting safely down the tracks. DOnt get me started about amtrak.

Older trains that used overhead lines would dump the power generated back into the lines when decelerating.

Speaking of dodge colts, a relative of mines had a geo metro. It got 60 or so mpg back a few years ago. It seated two comfortability and could carry a load of groceries. Not bad for a three cylinder with air.

 

[markdi]

Re: To Darryl-80 mpg diesel hybrid-real or not?

why do I have to install a flash player to look at your pictures
how anoyying kinda liks spyware

 

[Darell]

Re: To Darryl-80 mpg diesel hybrid-real or not?

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jtr1962 said:
Darell,

Do you think solar power would be feasible in a place like NYC?

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Surprisingly, yes. The secret is being grid-tied, and offering up power during the day at peak times, and taking it back at off-peak times. And then averaging it out for each year. IN the winter, I'm a big consumer of power. But in the summer, I'm an even larger producer of power. At the end of the year, I'm ahead. You won't do as well as I do, certainly - but better than you may expect. One reason is that PV works better when it is cooler. Most folks associate solar power with "hot" areas, but that isn't the case. It gets to 110° here in the summer, and my production goes way down. Days like today where the sun was out, and it was 50° game me WAY more power than on the longest, hot summer day. Like 25% more! Cloudy, rainy days just suck for PV, but the other days can make up for it.

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EVs with a range of 100 miles or more will satisfy 99% of drivers 99.9% of the time.

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More convincingly, it is something like 80% of the drivers and 95% of the time. Easier to support, and still HUGE numbers, of course.

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Even though no commercial EVs are being sold, nothing is stopping some entreprenuer from converting gasoline cars to electrics and reselling them.

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The one thing that's stopping them is the efficiency of a "conversion." While most production cars were in the 100 mile range, the average conversion is in the 50 mile range. Still VERY useful in many situations, but with people crying foul about 100 miles, you can imagine what happens at 50.

 

[Darell]

Re: To Darryl-80 mpg diesel hybrid-real or not?

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markdi said:
why do I have to install a flash player to look at your pictures
how anoyying kinda liks spyware

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Are you addressing me? There is NO requirement to install Flash to see any of the pictures on my site. Only to see the navigation buttons.

The main reason for the FLASH, of course, is to spy on you.

 

[kenny]

Re: To Darryl-80 mpg diesel hybrid-real or not?

VW is selling a 1.2 liter Diesel Lupo, and I believe it gets nearly 80 mpg. There have been some issues. I'm sure the performance is anemic, but they also make a 1.7 (16.8 0-60) liter version which probably is more suitable for actual driving. I think it still gets in the upper 60's.

One problem is that all the extra mass that is required for saftey costs gas to push around. I drove an 800 cc micro car in Korea for a year and a half and it was a hoot -- great gas mileage, but you can get it here -- big brother says no (but I can ride a motorcycle -- now THAT'S safe!).

 

[Frangible]

Re: To Darryl-80 mpg diesel hybrid-real or not?

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The one thing that's stopping them is the efficiency of a "conversion." While most production cars were in the 100 mile range, the average conversion is in the 50 mile range. Still VERY useful in many situations, but with people crying foul about 100 miles, you can imagine what happens at 50.


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That, and the extreme cost, is why I say today's battery technology is not good enough. "Good enough" is the range of an ICE car at the same cost. That's a ways off /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[rodfran]

Re: To Darryl-80 mpg diesel hybrid-real or not?

Hi Darell!First of all, I want to apologize for spelling your name wrong.I think it is really cool that you use solar to power your house and electric car.Thanks to everyone for the great responses.With fuel and energy costs increasing, we will have to look at alternative energy solutions now and in the future.I think the article I saw about hybrid diesels was a german company, now that I think about it.For my personal transportation I ride the bus(I get a good break on a monthly bus pass-$10) to and from work. Otherwise, I use my wife's 1974 VW beetle. She is the original owner. By the way Darell, some of the reproduction parts that I have gotten for it came from California. The old beetle has been a reliable and economical car.

 

[Darell]

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Frangible said:
That, and the extreme cost, is why I say today's battery technology is not good enough. "Good enough" is the range of an ICE car at the same cost. That's a ways off /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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So frustrating for me, because we DO have the ICE range, but certainly not the cost. We can't. Each pack is custom built. If we compared the cost of say a custom-built ICE (ya take your hung of aluminum, and with your hobby milling machine, you make it into an engine...) then we'd have a fair comparison. grrr. The battery makers got the rug yanked from under them when the ZEV mandate went away, and everybody is scared to tool for EV batteries now. If the same effort were put into EV batteries as is being put into laptop and cell phone batteries, we would not be having this discussion.

In the meantime, it sure is nice driving by those gas station price signs!

 

[Darell]

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rodfran said:
Hi Darell!First of all, I want to apologize for spelling your name wrong.I think it is really cool that you use solar to power your house and electric car.

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Ha. Well, thanks for letting me prattle on in your thread. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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By the way Darell, some of the reproduction parts that I have gotten for it came from California.

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Yeah, not everything is bad about CA - no matter what you've heard. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I did just start having to wear pants this week though!

 

[bubbacatfish]

Mercedes is starting to sell the these in Canada, anyone seen one in the States yet?
http://www.team.net/www/ktud/smart.html

 

[gadget_lover]

Yeah the smart is a cool car. The two seat versoin would be even easier to park than my current ride, and the Prius is SUPER easy to park.

Look at the SMART specs at http://www.thesmart.co.uk/smart_range/cars/model_details_tec.asp?id=8

The accelleration for the two door is just a touch slower than a Prius, but the combined milage of 60 mpg sounds impressive. The 4 door is as quick as a prius, but the combined milage drops to only 51. With innovative engine mounts and counterbalances a 3 cylinder can be made to feel pretty smooth.

I did not see any mention of an electric or hybrid version.

Daniel

 

[Brock]

There are quite a few threads on the TDI club forums about diesel hybrids.

TDIclub

I have a diesel VW TDI Jetta wagon and my lifetime so far at 26,000 miles is 53.08 with my best single tank being 58.12 and worst being 45.69. I think we will see a lot more diesel's here once we get clean diesel in the states in 2006. VW does have a lot of smaller diesels mentioned above. Personally I would prefer a Passat wagon with a 1.6 TDI engine in it. It should get slightly better mileage then my current car and be larger. I know 0-60 would be about 20 seconds but I don't care. I have yet to see a car in traffic or on an on ramp accelerate in less then 0-60 in about 30 seconds, people very rarely "floor it", so what's the point?

Actually my ideal car would actually be an all electric station wagon with a 1.2L diesel generator. The car would have a range of 50 miles on batteries and then would start the diesel engine if needed to recharge the batteries or on long trips cruising 180 miles it would tick along to keep the batteries topped off and push the car down the road.

I don't know if many of you have seen the info on the Hummer. If I remember correctly the military has made a smaller diesel version with batteries and 4 electric drive motors at each wheel. The engine is a generator to charge the batteries. The military wanted it for "stealth" reasons, absolutely quite sneaking ability and with the 4 wheel each one has it's own traction control. I think it could only run about 5 miles in stealth mode, but quite neat. Oh it also got about 1.5 times the mileage of the conventional version and was quicker in the 0-60.

 

[raggie33]

why is diesl so expensive aint it like the waste from maeking real gas?

 

[RussH]

What I'm waiting for is a Capstone Microturbine hybrid. I quote "Like a jet engine, the Capstone MicroTurbine mixes fuel with air to create combustion. This combustion turns a magnet generator, compressor and turbine wheels on a revolutionary single shaft, air bearing design at high speed with no need for additional lubricants, oils or coolants. The result is a highly efficient, reliable, clean combustion generator with very low NOx emissions that, unlike diesel generators, can operate around the clock without restrictions. While the initial capital cost of a Capstone-energized hybrid is somewhat higher than a conventional engine and genset, service costs are 70% lower. Fuel efficiency in a Capstone-energized hybrid vehicle is 40 – 80% higher than conventional drivetrain vehicles." (Capstone literature)

 

[mattheww50]

1). Diesel is not much less expensive than gasoline in the USA because of the taxes. Most Diesel is consumed by commercial vehicles, and businesses don't vote. You can get a good handle on the actual untaxed cost of Diesel by watching the price airlines are paying for Jet-A (Jet A, Kerosene, #2 heating Oil and Diesel Fuel are very similar products). Before the taxes were raised, and Diesel was taxed the same as Gasoline, it was very noticeably less expensive than unleaded fuel.

2). The market for Diesels in the USA was very effectively mucked up by the Disasters GM sold as Diesels. They converted the 5.7 liter V8 to Diesel and sold them in the late 1970's and early 1980's. To be polite, and as a former owner, I would describe them as monuments to unreliability. In almost 35 years of driving, I have to have cars towed in total 6 times. 4 of those were over 3 years with a single GM 5.7 liter Diesel powered Chevrolet. It spent a whole month in the shop under warranty because of a problem they couldn't fix. Engine used to simply die, randomly. Not once a week, every few miles. They couldn't even finish a test drive with it!

By contrast Diesel cars in Europe are very popular, Engines were designed to be Diesels, rather than converted. Diesel is not taxed more heavily than Gasoline, and provides much better fuel economy. You probably didn't know you can Diesel powered Jeep SUV's, just not in the USA...

 

[raggie33]

here diesel cost more then preium unleaeded kerscene is insane price.like 4 bucks per gallon.i think diesel is a cool fuel cause they have so much torque

 

[jtr1962]

[ QUOTE ]
Brock said:
I know 0-60 would be about 20 seconds but I don't care. I have yet to see a car in traffic or on an on ramp accelerate in less then 0-60 in about 30 seconds, people very rarely "floor it", so what's the point?


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Amen to that. I see all these car ads bragging about 0 to 60 times and I cringe. All that gas wasted towing around extra weight for performance that's almost never used by anybody. 0 to 60 is the most meaningless performance figure for real world driving because most people enter the on ramp going pretty fast already, and most people drive way more than 60 mph. I tend to think for real world driving 50 to 80 mph might be more relevant. Most people seem to enter the start of the on ramp at 45 to 50 mph. This even applies to buses and heavy trucks. Unless there's heavy traffic or signals you rarely see people come to a complete stop at the beginning of the ramp and then floor it to merge with traffic. And when traffic is heavy enough that you need to do that it's usually moving at way less than 60 mph anyway, making 0 to 60 irrelevant. As long as it gets to 60 mph in under 30 seconds, it can keep up with traffic. In fact, buses which take about a minute to reach 60 mph don't seem to have much trouble keeping up. Indeed, I've found that in normal city driving the maximum acceleration of my bicycle (0 to 30 mph in 11 seconds) actually beats normal traffic out of stoplights. So much for all the sub 10 second 0 to 60 times auto makers brag about. Like the off-road and towing capabilities touted with disgustingly slothful SUVs, they are seldom if ever needed by the majority of drivers. I tend to think slower accelerating cars are better for safety-you actually have to think about it and hold the pedal down a while when you want to reach high speeds. You can't do it on a whim in a few seconds because someone pisses you off and you're trying to catch them.

BTW, lots of good ideas and common sense from the people contributing to this thread. I wish we were all in charge of designing cars instead of the marketing weanies who try to make the public want the kind of vehicles on which the most profit is made (i.e. SUVs).

 

[gadget_lover]

I've also noticed that the 20 to 65 time would be more appropriate for merging onto freeways. Around here there are some very short onramps as a result of freeway widening or installing metering lights near the end of the on ramp. In those instances it's nice to have decent pick-up.

I don't think that busses "merge" into traffic as much as they force their way in. They don't need to match the flow of traffic.

Daniel