Two is one and one is none.....but what are three and four?

[bedazzLED]

Two is one and One is none just does not cut it. If 2=1 and 1=0, then 2=0, so it's already game over if you carry only two. That's why you have to carry at least 3, however, you should always have a backup so you need an absolute minimum of 4.

I like redundancy, so I carry five!

 

[rickypanecatyl]

I hear where you're all coming from and certainly enjoy playing with different lights!

But I just have to vent a sec here (Don't take it personal anyone - I mostly jesting!) at the same time and say "Sheesh!! I hate the phrase '2 is 1 and 1 is none!'" I'm overwhelmed with the **** poor quality of 95% of so much that is made today and how easily satisfied most consumers are.

Things are so cheap to make in this day and age so we just buy multiple items - taking up space, wrecking resources, littering our houses and planet.

Recently the charger on my 3rd point and shoot camera went out after a year of use and the stores acted shocked that I didn't think a year was a long time for a battery charger to last. Olympus wanted $120 for a new charger for a camera barely worth that much so I found a couple different ones on line for from between $3 and $11. I wasn't spending $120 but I did get 2 chargers are 4 batteries because "they were so cheap" via amazon. 1 charger and 1 battery didn't work on arrival but who cares cuz there so cheap right? Of the 3 batteries that work, 1 gets about 120 pics the other 50 and the other 30 - hard to tell which one is "the good one" so I keep them all cluttering up a drawer and of course need to bring them all with me when I go because I may have loaded the lower capacity batteries. Thus a compact point and shoot is as bulky as an old fashioned camera.

I loved the specs on the xeno x03 and since it was cheap I bought 2. Unfortunately the first one broke the first hour and the 2nd wasn't far behind. I do keep one of them though cuz sometimes it comes on and I don't want to throw it away. Of course the dealer will replace the board for me... if I send my defective ones in first, and then he sends them to the manufacture and the manufacture determines it was their fault... and if of course I pay in international shipping & duty what they are worth.
So how far do we go? 3 flashlights as we walk out the door and 3 side arms, a couple multi tools and 2 sets of keys in case the first truck key breaks in the ignition?

Should we always be driving around with a back up battery in case the first one goes out in the middle of nowhere as well as belts, bolts and other doo dads. I probably had the right idea when I drove around in a truck with a motorcycle in the back. Of course if we bring a cell phone we could just call your insurances roadside assistance program - unless of course the cell service went out or the phone died so it'd probably be good to have redundant, back up phones as well as multiple carriers in case the carrier was the issue. Be warned though if you think you're covered I've had my roadside assistance tell me they weren't able to send anyone out to my particular area on that particular day. I kind of lost it on them and then mysteriously my cell service dropped the call... or was that my cell services fault that time? Who knows...

I know some Rangers often pack 2 back up chutes and that's understandable - even a Nordstrom/REI type warranty isn't worth much when chutes don't deploy.

So here's my plug for, "C'mon y'all... let's raise our standards!" Be willing to pay top dollar for a product that does exactly what it was mean to do extremely well and reliable. Don't kid yourself that when you spend 50% more by buying 15 cheap knock offs at a 1/10 the cost that your "more ready". At best you'll look like Johnny English wondering which of his 6 lights is kind of working now and which one of his pieces still has a decent firing pin in it.

And if you find a guy that takes pride in his work and makes an excellent product, support his business - though it costs more upfront.

Now I need to go and figure out which 2 of my 20 or so eneloops are working right now so I can power up my gps cuz I'm late!

 

[subwoofer]

I hear where you're all coming from and certainly enjoy playing with different lights!

But I just have to vent a sec here (Don't take it personal anyone - I mostly jesting!) at the same time and say "Sheesh!! I hate the phrase '2 is 1 and 1 is none!'" I'm overwhelmed with the **** poor quality of 95% of so much that is made today and how easily satisfied most consumers are.
.....

I hear where you are coming from. Unfortunately the mass markets only want the latest and cheapest products. Most manufacturers now can't afford to make good things as everyone sees them as too expensive and buys the cheaper ones. Most people then drive the markets and manufacturers have no option but to pander to this.

However, the standards still have to be reasonable or you will go to one of their competitors, so competition should maintain some standards. It does sound like you have been unlucky.

There are quality products out there, so you can decide to pay more and get good quality, however sometimes that is paying a lot more. Even these quality items can still fail.

The expression I based this thread on is a military one, and is based on a critical item failing and your life depending on a backup. Most people carrying a side arm as part of their job will carry a backup; if they need a gun and their main weapon fails there backup can literally save their life. Quality has nothing to do with it as failures can be for all sorts of reasons, including you dropping it.

I don't think that carrying a backup or multiple backups is any reflection on the quality of products, only on how critical the situation is. I would have a Zebralight, Quark and Fenix on me which are all good brands, but you can still get switch failures etc and then it is much easier to turn on a second light than it is to replace the battery in the first in the dark.

It doesn't seem to me that your dislike of the general poor quality of mass market goods really relates to what I am saying in this thread really.

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

Two 1xAAs live on my keyring: one for flood, one for throw.

A third 1xAA (or a 1xAAA) lives in my pocket. If I'm walking down the street at night or sitting in my car at a red light, i can quickly flash a driver whose headlights are off, while pointing to his lights and mouthing "lights!"

That said, when I was single I used to carry a second umbrella, to lend to pretty ladies. The principle still applies.

 

[Cataract]

2 is one and 1 is none is slightly over-rated (ducks and runs behind a bullet-proof glass)

Now that I have your attention, here is the explanation:

It is a very good idea to have backups in critical situations, but when it comes to just not fumbling with the keyhole, let's not forget our ancestors (some of which are still alive today) did not carry 3 flashlights for that. I still carry a flashlight for those situations just because I would be a very bad flashaholic if I didn't, but rarely use or even need it.

More critical situations are a different story, however:

- For hiking, I carry at least 3 lights (1 headlamp, 1 or 2 flashlights plus a crank light and 2 spare batteries)
- At work, I always have 2 flashlights on my belt and sometimes carry an extra backup (not counting the one that resides on my keychain)
- For hiking at night, since the only point I do that is to use flashlights, I won't leave without at least 5 or 6 lights and sometimes a backpack full of lights - but that doesn't really count as spares since the whole point is to have fun with my lights and the worst I can come across is a skunk.

When I go shopping on the weekend, however, I bring only one EDC (still not counting the one on my keychain) since I only once used a flashlight for a non-critical application ONCE (not counting the 2 lights that reside in my car either)

I still have all these lights in my immediate environment despite the fact that I can't remember ever having a light fail on me for reasons other than battery or maintenance problems (excluding 5$ and less flashlights, which I never counted on to start with). So I say 2=1=0 is a little over-rated when you pay an average of 70$ to 100$ a pop for your lights. (Boy am I gonna get it now!)

 

[chmsam]

Two is one and one is none... but what are three and four?

Adequate.

Barely adequate.

Depending on whether I'm just puttering around or going somewhere that means I frequently need a light I'll have 3 or 4 as a start.

I think of it this way --

- Ya mean just one 6" crescent wrench won't be enough to work on your car, the plumbing in your house, the bicycle your kid rides, and so on?

- Ya mean ya can't paint the Sistine Chapel with just one brush?

- Ya mean ya can't do surgery with only one clamp and a scalpel? Oh, wait... that's two things. Better cut back on that.

 

[ScaryFatKidGT]

Its Murffys law. If you have one and it fails ur dumb, If you have 2 fail ur unlucky, if 3 fail ur really unlucky if you bring 4 or more they will all work fine

 

[Vesper]

Its Murffys law. If you have one and it fails ur dumb, If you have 2 fail ur unlucky, if 3 fail ur really unlucky if you bring 4 or more they will all work fine

Man, this is like the definition of how the universe works in a nutshell.

 

[nbp]

2 is absolute minimum. 3 normal. 4 is when i know i need light. "5 or more" when i like to play with different type of lights .. or im doing an test run on a new member of the herd, or need a light for longer time or different type of tasks.

one is none. two is one. three is enough. four is backup. five is need/versatility. six is for fun. seven is overkill. eight is addiction.

This. ^^^^^

 

[Kitchen Panda]

"But honey" I said " I should bring the TK 70 because if my Quark AA runs down all three AA lithium cells I have and your Ti CA-1 runs down and the 2-C Maglite in the glove box quits and the 3 AAA freebie the dealership gave us at an oil change fails, the only flashlight we'd have left is the Fauxton I have on my keychain!" My wife, being the risk-taker that she is, allowed that we'd probably live through the drive to and from her brother's place with only this minimal amount of lighting equipment.

 

[MGRS]

I only carry one aaa or aa light at a time on an edc basis.

In the field and at home, I always have at least one extra headlamp. I use headlamps more than any other light type and will never be without one...

 

[Siskik]

"But honey" I said " I should bring the TK 70 because if my Quark AA runs down all three AA lithium cells I have and your Ti CA-1 runs down and the 2-C Maglite in the glove box quits and the 3 AAA freebie the dealership gave us at an oil change fails, the only flashlight we'd have left is the Fauxton I have on my keychain!" My wife, being the risk-taker that she is, allowed that we'd probably live through the drive to and from her brother's place with only this minimal amount of lighting equipment.

Dat's funny right thar.

My wife would say the same thing.

 

[mbw_151]

Come on here, this is a simple question, 3 + 4 = 7. Now that we have that out of the way, let's talk backups. I always carry a Photon Freedom and I'm never far from something bigger, so two minimum. When I know I'm going to need lights, I carry a hand held for throw, a headlamp for close in, and a backup that's kind of in the middle. The backup my be a headlamp or a hand held with a head strap. For example; if I'm carrying my Z2/M61WLL and Zebra H30w, I might carry a Saint or a HDS EDC as backup and I've still got the Photon so 4. The only time I carry more than 4 lights is when I think I'll need a "loaner" for those who are unprepared or if I want to take a "toy".

 

[LGT]

I'm one that probably carries a few too many. Three is a minimum. Five or six is the norm. Why? Because I just like having all of these lights ready to use. While one or two would cover my needs, ,want, I guess, isn't the driving force behind this obsession.

 

[eh4]

In my day to day one light is sufficient because I like to be able to see in the dark and there's usually not a great consequence to not having a spare.
Out in the country, travelling or down in a hole I agree with 'two is one', and overlapping functions and battery compatibility makes the most sense.
I haven't had much experience with caving, but the times I have caved they were simply found, holes at the base of a palisade, wonder what's down there, did I bring a light? I'd go in with one light if something was chasing me I suppose but there is no way I'd go crawl around in the ancient darkness with one fallible, breakable, losable light source.

I'm not really a flash aholic, more of a maintenence user with a controllable habit. The best light/reliability/utility/weight ratios are the most exciting lights to me, goes for tools in general. I like to know where a tool is and that it will work and not have a bunch of extra stuff in the way.
I'm gathering the threads through the internets and gradually collecting a core of rock solid lighting tools, one slightly painful purchase at a time.

btw, after pondering the stats for a long time I'm pretty sure that Zebralight H51Fc and Zebralight H51w will make a killer combo.

 

[fyrstormer]

Two is sometimes none as well. All you have to do is set them both down and walk off, then realize you need a light but you left them at your desk on another floor of the building.

That being said, 99% of my lighting needs are taken care of by a 1xCR123 clip-on light and a 1xCR2 pocket light. The other 1% are handled by a 1xAAA moonlight and a 2x123 thrower.

 

[ZMZ67]

"But honey" I said " I should bring the TK 70 because if my Quark AA runs down all three AA lithium cells I have and your Ti CA-1 runs down and the 2-C Maglite in the glove box quits and the 3 AAA freebie the dealership gave us at an oil change fails, the only flashlight we'd have left is the Fauxton I have on my keychain!" My wife, being the risk-taker that she is, allowed that we'd probably live through the drive to and from her brother's place with only this minimal amount of lighting equipment.

 

[neal71]

I hear where you're all coming from and certainly enjoy playing with different lights!

But I just have to vent a sec here (Don't take it personal anyone - I mostly jesting!) at the same time and say "Sheesh!! I hate the phrase '2 is 1 and 1 is none!'" I'm overwhelmed with the **** poor quality of 95% of so much that is made today and how easily satisfied most consumers are.

I take every light I own, granted that is like 5 and a spotlight. Not because I think that all of my lights are going to fail, but because bad things do happen. Just like I change my oil, check my tires, and make sure I have gas in my car before I head out into the middle of no where.

 

[yifu]

I take every light I own, granted that is like 5 and a spotlight. Not because I think that all of my lights are going to fail, but because bad things do happen. Just like I change my oil, check my tires, and make sure I have gas in my car before I head out into the middle of no where.

You know that 99% of people dont have a flashlight with them, so if they can survive without one so can we. Flashlights are not critical in most situations, merely useful to make things easier.

 

[subwoofer]

You know that 99% of people dont have a flashlight with them, so if they can survive without one so can we. Flashlights are not critical in most situations, merely useful to make things easier.

My original post was aimed more at opinions on levels of redundancy compared to how critical the use is. It is easy to get carried away as an enthusiast, but this is not what I was getting at.

One concern I have is people's growing reliance on technology and being completely disabled when something stops working, so I certainly appreciate your point and agree with a torch generally not being a need, instead being an aid. This is fine in natural situations as we have evolved to not need a torch and can see by starlight if necessary.

However there are a growing number of very unnatural situation we find ourselves in where a torch could make all the difference. Whenever I go on the underground, or most other forms of public transport (of course my car has many lights) I will have at least two torches if not more.