UltraFire WF-139 overcharges batteries? other option?

fa__

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Maybe a very simple and efficient solution :
By integrating this thing in the charger, you turn any unprotected battery into a protected one:
http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=549

But would there be any problem when using this board in conjunction with the integrated circuitry of the protected battery ? I would like to be able to charge protected an unprotected batteries without modifiying charger each time :)
 

gravityz

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nice
only this stuff is probably allready in the charger

trhe specs state 4.25 +/- 0.05 volts

the wf-139 terminates at about 4.25-4.28 which is withing these specs

what we want is 4.20 and these things can not be callibrated
 

fa__

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You're right, maybe a lower voltage calibrated board of this kind exist ...
 

hank

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> pulled as soon as it went green

Someone could invent a Rube Goldberg device to do what's needed:

-- photocell watches for green light to go on
-- green light goes on
-- photocell sends signal to solenoid
-- solenoid yanks battery out of charger OR power plug out of wall

Simple, works around the whole problem. Hmmm. Or, fix the problem.

By the way, if anyone's wondering WHY we worry about this kind of thing, the problems have been known for more than fifteen years, for example:

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/risks/11.95.html#subj7
Sun, 23 Jun 91 11:47:08 PDT

Lauda Air disaster linked to potentially hazardous cargo
" The wreckage also showed evidence of burn marks in one cargo hold, a
phenomenon which specialists initially were unable to explain but later linked
to the watch batteries, the report said.
... a South African Airways Boeing 747 was carrying a cargo of lithium-battery watches when it crashed into the Indian Ocean on a flight from Taiwan to South African in 1987, killing 159 people. Last year, a
Cathay Pacific plane was forced to make an emergency landing after fire broke out in a cargo hold bearing a shipment of watches with lithium batteries..."

Aviation Today :: Lithium Battery Fire Could Burn Through a Cargo Hold
That is the principal finding of a June report of lithium battery fire tests. ... some aircraft fire detection systems are powered by lithium batteries. ...
http://www.avtoday.com/regions/mideast/2802.html


Good advice for anyone contemplating fiddling with a charger or anything else:

----excerpt----

In design or specification:
Do include protective devices such as diodes, limiting resistors and fuses into the
circuits.
Do not allow the failure of one component to create a dangerous situation. In
particular

---> the blocking diode for backup primary cells should be made of
---> at least two individual diodes in series.

Do not join batteries either in series or parallel without first consulting the
manufacturer's advice.
Do not encapsulate lithium batteries without first consulting the manufacturer's
advice.
Do not use more than one lithium battery in the same piece of equipment without first
consulting the manufacturer's advice.

----> Do not install lithium batteries next to a source of heat.

----end excerpt-----
http://www.nerc.ac.uk/about/work/policy/safety/documents/guidance_lithium_batteries.pdf


And remember:
-----excerpt------

Store, and charge, in a fireproof container .....

Charge in a protected area devoid of combustibles.
Always stand watch over the charging process.
Never leave the charging process unattended.

-----end excerpt-----
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224632

and remember:

from the FAA:

"A relatively small fire source is sufficient to start a primary lithium
battery fire. The outer plastic coating easily melts and fuses adjacent
batteries together and then ignites, contributing to the fire intensity.
This helps raise the battery temperature to the self-ignition
temperature of lithium. Once the lithium in a single battery begins to
burn, it releases enough energy to ignite adjacent batteries. This
propagation continues until all batteries have been consumed.

"Halon 1301, the fire suppression agent installed in transport category
aircraft, is ineffective in suppressing or extinguishing a primary
lithium battery fire. Halon 1301 appears to chemically interact with the
burning lithium and electrolyte, causing a color change in the molten
lithium sparks, turning them a deep red instead of the normal white.
This chemical interaction has no effect on battery fire duration or
intensity.

"The air temperature in a cargo compartment that has had a fire
suppressed by Halon 1301 can still be above the autoignition temperature
of lithium. Because of this, batteries that were not involved in the
initial fire can still ignite and propagate.

"The ignition of a primary lithium battery releases burning electrolyte
and a molten lithium spray. The cargo liner material may be vulnerable
to perforation by molten lithium, depending on its thickness. This can
allow the Halon 1301 fire suppressant agent to leak out of the
compartment, reducing the concentration within the cargo compartment and
the effectiveness of the agent. Holes in the cargo liner may also allow
flames to spread outside the compartment.

"The ignition of primary lithium batteries releases a pressure pulse
that can raise the air pressure within the cargo compartment. The
ignition of only a few batteries was sufficient to increase the air
pressure by more than 1 psi in an airtight 10-meter-cubed pressure
vessel. Cargo compartments are only designed to withstand approximately
a 1-psi pressure differential. The ignition of a bulk-packed lithium
battery shipment may compromise the integrity of the compartment by
activating the pressure relief panels. This has the same effect as
perforations in the cargo liner, allowing the Halon 1301 fire
suppressant to leak out, reducing its effectiveness."

Full text:

http://www.icao.int/anb/fls/dangerou.../WPs/WP.36.pdf
 
Last edited:

ChocolateLab33

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I mostly charge 14500 batteries in my WF-139 (protected and unprotected). When I put any battery in to charge it, I get a low hissing noise the entire time-is this normal? Should I be worried? I don't want to go :poof:

Thanks!
 

gravityz

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mine is completely silent with both 10440 and 14500

if this is coming from inside the charger there might be something wrong.

my nimh charger sometime made a strange noise but this was coming from the battery not making good contact with the chargingpoints
 

jirik_cz

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My wf-139 is hissing when charging too, but it is quite silent. My sanyo AA charger makes similar noise, but much louder.

I measured 4.17V on 18650 cells after the charge and 4.11 - 4.13 on 14500 and RCR123 cells (all AW). So I'm satisfied with this one :)
 

gravityz

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maybee it is produced by the coils
i do not see other components which could make this noise
maybee if the ferritecore is damaged it will make this sound but it should be quiet when green 'cause there is hardly any current flowing.
 

adamlau

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I want to test and see if my two Pila chargers are ramping up the charge towards the end. Do I simply place my DMM leads between the charging battery and charger contacts and watch for output fluctuations?
 

gravityz

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yes put it parallel to the battery and put your dmm in VOLTAGE mode

i do not think you will see fluctuations because the voltage of the cell can only rise at a certain speed.

if the cell is low you will notice that the voltage will stay at a certain level for a long time
this is probable the CC state(constant current)
after that the voltage is increased as it goes into CV state(constant voltage)
the output of the voltage will stay the same(probably 4.6 volts) but because the charger is connected to the battery you will see the cell voltage which offcourse is rising.
it is this voltage you need to monitor as it gets above the 4.20 volt
 
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gravityz

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the value of R1 is 10K accoording to your photo
can you tell mew what the value is of R4?

Here you go

wf-139-default1.JPG


wf-139-moded1_1.JPG
 

xevious

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So is it safe to say that if you use a UF WF-139 to charge your batteries, you should do it in a fire resistant environment and attend the charging until complete?

Of course, I do appreciate the overall advice of never leaving lithium batteries charging unattended--you never know what can happen. But if your chances of things going wrong are significantly reduced by a better charger... $49 for the Pila vs. $18.50 for the WF-139... $30 is certainly worth the piece of mind, isn't it?

I always think of the extreme situation... you're charging your cells but somehow you get distracted due to an emergency and run out of the house for a few hours... will the Pila IBC Charger cut power once the cells are charged? If so, I'd feel a heck of a lot better about using that instead of the WF-139...

Also, side note--what kind of fire extinguisher is required to put out a Lithium battery fire?
 

MatajumotorS

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the value of R1 is 10K accoording to your photo
can you tell mew what the value is of R4?
I do not remember, but it was 10 times bigger than original value, maby it was 2,2k. You can leave an original resistor, but then there will be 10mA tricle charge after led turns green (oposite to 1 mA, modified).
 

TKO

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Just tested a pair of AW's 18650's hot off the charger and both measured 4.19 Volts.

Guess I got a good one:thumbsup:
 

Secur1

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Well i think my UltraFire WF-139 just killed 2 of the extra Wolf Eyes LRB-168 cells i got, i put them in, charge them, took them out the second the led turned green, stick them in my 18650 tube moded D-mini and they only run for a few seconds, i got no volt meter handy but i'm fairly sure they are dead.

On the other hand i got absolutely no problem with the rest of the cells i charge with the WF-139 like 2x RCR123 and 2x 14500 which are AW branded.
Now it could be the WE cells that r of crappy quality... either way i just put down an order for 4 x AW's 18650 cells, 1 for my D-mini and 3 more as a backup for my WE Boxer 24 watt.

The problem is that after reading so many bad comments on this charger, i am a bit hessitant to put the new cells in once they get here....
On the other hand if it was defective, wouldn't it have killed the rest of my cells too ?

What do you guys think ?
 

Secur1

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Also, side note--what kind of fire extinguisher is required to put out a Lithium battery fire?

A fire is going to be caused if you have any flammable material near by, otherwise the cell is either going to vent if it's protected or explode spewing it's guts all over the place. In essence the explosion is going to be chemical but the fire is going to be based on what ever material is near by, now since we are talking about an electrical appliance water is out of the question so a simple CO2 extinguisher is going to do just fine.
If it does happen make sure you air the room immediately and try not to inhale as the fumes are toxic.
 

Tidra

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My Ultrafire too owercharge my 18650,....

what a crap, I also have 4x 18650 from Ultrafire, they clame they are 2400mAh, but when I discharge them with 500mA they last only for 3 hours,... and if I try to discharge them with 1A, votage drops imediatly from 8,4V to 7,2V,.... hahahahaha

I know it, I got it to cheap,.... hahahahaha
 

Hitthespot

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I just bought a Ultrafire 139 charger and received it yesterday. This thread has been very educational reading for me. I believe my 14500 batteries are coming off around 4.15 Volts when the light turns green.

Is this the perfect voltage? Or is lower/higher better?

Also what is the optimum voltage to place them back on the charger?

Thanks

Bill
 
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