UltraFire WF-139 overcharges batteries? other option?

[nickz]

I just checked mine to be sure and it reads that it is trickling at 10mA on a green light? I suppose it is possibly faulty. I have two others I will now check or is 10ma nothing to worry about?

 

[gunga]

If you have teh WF-139, I believe that is normal. It is why you have to take the batteries out when the light turns green...

 

[LuxLuthor]

Among these relatively cheap Li-Ion chargers:

• The "In series Universal" type chargers" that was sold by Alin in the GB, and elsewhere on the internet is the most dangerous. It can be made to blow up your cells if you select the wrong cell number, and the lame switch in mine (before I threw it away) did not have any kind of a distinctive click on the microscopic voltage selection type to even know for sure which cell number you chose.

The second of those two "El Crappo" universal chargers that I bought from Alin apparently had an internal short because it overheated, started smoking, and when I came in from the TV room because of the smell, the light was still on, but the plastic was already deformed from the smoke & heat. I unplugged it and threw it outside. I'm sorry I didn't take pictures of it now.
​

• The UltraFire WF-139 is slightly less crappy, but still dangerous....because it apparently (like many unsupervised, no name brand "El Cheapo" Chinese made electronics) has poor components and/or poor quality control. As a result, from unit to unit, it randomly has dangerously high charging end point voltage, combined with a followup trickle mode which is unacceptable and dangerous for Li-Ion charging. No one knows for sure if there is also a deterioration of components over time, or accentuated dangers (i.e. higher voltage termination) with various battery types (protected/unprotected/name brands) or variation among individual cells of each type. It charges at 600 mA per slot.

• The DSD is the next best, and actually terminates charging when it reaches between 4.17-4.18 V (of the three I have). It only charges with 350 mA, but applies that equally to both slots if two batteries are charged....so it is slow. Many upgraded the AC transformer with a Nokia cell phone 800 mA adapter. Still only 400 mA per slot.

• The Pila IBC (newer charger) is the best of these cheap Li-Ion charger options. It puts out 600 mA per slot, has name brand reputation, supervised Chinese made QC & components, 12 month warranty, and it terminates voltage when charged to safe end point. I forget what the exact specified termination voltage is, but none of mine has read higher than 4.18V off the charger.

• Next best choices get into using a cradle and chargers like the DN/Tenergy, Cellpro 4S, or more advanced chargers such as the Triton, Hyperion, Schultze, etc.

 

[nickz]

Mine is the dsd that is still trickling at 10mA for some reason. The other thing I discovered is one of them is only charging at 106 mA with ONE cell !!

 

[LuxLuthor]

Mine is the dsd that is still trickling at 10mA for some reason. The other thing I discovered is one of them is only charging at 106 mA with ONE cell !!

Obviously, you have a defective unit, and I would throw it away.

The old adage "You get what you pay for" certainly applies to these "El Cheapo" no-name-brand Chinese made products, of which the DSD is one. My 3 DSD's did not trickle, and they are not supposed to....so this is what happens when you deal with no QC cheap products.

It was the same reputation for garbage products "Made in Japan" used to have before they cleaned up their QC. Now same situation with "Made in China" if not supervised by a reputable name brand company with specified components. Its why the Pila is a little more expensive.

I have never heard of anyone showing a Pila has a trickle charge error, or low charge rate like your DSD. Why? Because they actually have someone check to see if each unit is performing properly before putting their name brand on it.

El Cheapo knockoff Chinese models could care less about safety or QC.

 

[nickz]

Heh, I was one step ahead of you when I saw it was charging funny all the way around! This unit now resides in my trashcan where it belongs! Now to test the other two later this evening.

 

[stockae92]

i guess my best bet now is either the DSD or Pila IBC?

i think they charges both protected RCR123 (3.7V) and protected 18650

 

[barkingmad]

Anyone recommend a good place to buy the 'Pila IBC' and who ship Internationally (UK) and ideally take Paypal?

 

[JimmyME]

PILA IBC Update

FYI

I got the PILA IBC charger today and put my unprotected 18650s in it to charge. I left them in for 1 hour after the lights turned green and the voltage was 4.17v per cell. These same cells would have been 4.31 or 4.32 volts with the WF-139 charger that I threw away.

The Pila IBC was money well spent (for the sake of safety).

 

[matrixshaman]

Well being retired I can babysit mine as well as mod the circuits. I've built chargers from scratch and plan on a better circuit at some point than anything I've seen around currently. Soooo... if anyone who is really throwing away their charger would like to dig it out of the trash I'll pay postage for it if you'll ship it to me. PM if you got one and I'll even clean off the garbage
I actually have one of two plans at this point - I've got this great old engineering notebook with a lot of power supply and charging circuits - so I can build one from that with some IC's and fairly minimal components. Or I've got 4 Makita and 3 Milwaukee chargers that completely terminate when a cell is charged. If I can mod one of them to reduce the voltage and current and still shut off then that would be a good setup. But with any of these plans I still need a cell holder so that's where your dumpster diving will help out
Lux - thanks for keeping us up to speed on this issue and glad to see you are working on a better idea yourself in your charger thread. This whole charger thing really should not be so bad as it is. It's not rocket science to build one that can hit a target safe voltage and then shut off completely. And still be a reasonable price.

 

[barkingmad]

[bump]

So can anyone recommend a good place to buy the 'Pila IBC' and who ship Internationally (UK) and ideally take Paypal?

 

[DM51]

JSBurlys:
http://www.jsburlysflashlights.com/...rod&ref=Pila_IBC_battery_charger&cat=&catstr=

 

[wooniris]

Will the 'Pila IBC' run on UK 240volt?

 

[barkingmad]

Will the 'Pila IBC' run on UK 240volt?

On the specification on their web site it says:

Pila IBC Battery Charger including 1 x AC/DC Adapter with US & EU pins (100 - 240 VAC, 50/60Hz auto-sensing), Carrying Bag.

... so would see to be ok for UK use.

 

[jlomein]

The Pila IBC (newer charger) is the best of these cheap Li-Ion charger options. It puts out 600 mA per slot,

Can the Pila IBC be wired in such a way that you can pump both 600mA slots onto one AW C sized cell, charging it at 1200mA? That's getting pretty close to the AW recommended 1.6A charge current.

 

[bfg9000]

Man, what's happened to this place? All this talk about throwing stuff away just because it doesn't work exactly as you'd like. In the olden days, some smart fellow would just take a look for the rest of us and tell us what to modify.

2.34k ohm delivers exactly 4.2v but I do have to admit if that non-solid-state replacement resistor ever comes off, the charger defaults to 15v!

 

[AFAustin]

JSB doesn't state which li-ion cells it can charge. Anyone know?

 

[DM51]

The Pila IBC charger bays are designed to take 18650, 17670, 18500 and 17500 cells.

The charger delivers 600mA to each bay, so it should not be used to charge cells which have a capacity lower than 600mAh. This makes the charger borderline for use with R123s, which will fit with an extra spacer, and 14500s. Bear in mind that despite some claims made for high-capacity R123s (1,000mAh etc) these claims are complete BS, even if it is printed on the cell. There are no R123s that have a capacity greater than ~750mAh.

Always be careful when charging Li-Ions, as this is when accidents are most likely to occur. A sure sign of trouble is if a cell heats up during charging. Warm is OK, but if it gets hot, stop the charge immediately or it could explode. When cells get old, or if they have been overcharged or repeatedly fully discharged at high currents, they become marginal and lose some capacity.

 

[JanCPF]

snip .... Bear in mind that despite some claims made for high-capacity R123s (1,000mAh etc) these claims are complete BS, even if it is printed on the cell. There are no R123s that have a capacity greater than ~750mAh.

So true. Actually I don't think anybody has ever confirmed anything greater than 650 mAh.

Jan

 

[AFAustin]

DM51, thanks for the info. on the IBC.