UPDATE 21-VIII-07.(pics) Barbolight Li-ION charger.

[Greta]

Originally posted by Barbarin on 6-24-07 HERE.

Hello friends,

We have decided to have our own Li-ION charger. DSD and Ultrafire are OK but for a constant use they are not so. Copias are good ones, but they are intended for being used with protected batteries, and in adition they manufacture their own lights.

Our charger will be available in six weeks and it has two independent charging channels, 800 mA each. Reverse polarity detection and finishing charge at 4,17-4,19 V.

Input is 90-240 V, 12-24 V (trucks, boats) and no adaptor is needed. It will charge 17650, 18650, 17500 and 18500.

This is not the final design, but can help you to have an idea. Dimensions are 25x60x137 mm. It has two screws to allow to fix it to vehicles.

 

[Greta]

Copied Replies:

DUQ06-24-2007 12:48 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Nice simple design. Will it be sturdier than the DSD chargers?

Barbarin06-24-2007 02:18 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

In on another league

waTom06-24-2007 03:59 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Will you add spacers to charge R123As?

cy06-24-2007 05:46 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

despite claims of 800 & 1,000 mah ratings. so far best R123 tested in 625 mah range.

.5C to max 1C charge rates recommended by most cell mfg.

Javier, will this charger truly terminate at 4.2V? or will it continue to trickle charge, long as it's plugged in.

as you know greatest danger of using li-ion cells occurs during re-charging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waTom;
Will you add spacers to charge R123As?



Barbarin06-24-2007 11:06 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Charging RCR123 is not recomended.

Charge will end at 4,17-4,19V. No trickle. We are spending a lot of money in this development, and we just wanted to be sure that it was going as good and safe as possible.

It is intended to be plugged always, or connected to vehicles.

Bogus106-24-2007 12:36 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

It might be nice if you could have a jack on it somewhere to plug in a C li-ion cradle.

rdh22606-24-2007 03:38 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

One question: will it require spacers to handle 50mm batteries (17500, 18500), or
have a spring-loaded/slider to accomodate different-length batteries?

First suggestion: a lo-/hi-V switch (select 4.10-4.12 vs 4.17/4.19) would be great.

Second suggestion: a lo-/hi-A switch to allow lower-capacity (14500 comes to mind,
not to mention everyone elses' favorite RCR123) batteries.

I realize yuck-switches add hideous complexity/reliability issues to an otherwise-
foolproof blackbox product such as this, but the flexibility that accompanies it is highly
desired, and it would help distinguish this charger from the rest of the herd. And
reliable switches are made; I would gladly pay the extra $10 for them.

And, after all, it's not like I'm suggesting a LCD readout for state/V/A/etc.

-RDH

lukestephens77706-24-2007 09:39 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

I'd be sold in seconds if it could safely charge RCR123's, 14500's and accomodate 18650 cells! Plus as others said a jack to plug a cradle in for 'C' size lions. Pleeeaassee!! :twothumbs

lukestephens77706-24-2007 09:39 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Im sick of having mountains of different chargers.....

Barbarin06-25-2007 12:37 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Hello friends,

I appreciate your comments, and as a flashaholic I would like a charger like the one you propose but... It is not intended for experts or flashaholics, but for professionals or people who don't want or don't have enough time to read a dozen pages instructions manual.

It does not need spacers, as it has sliding contacts to charge xx500 or xx650 batteries.

Reliability is the goal of the design.

Regards,

Javier López

barkingmad06-25-2007 02:48 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Think the dual outputs (maybe 400ma and 800ma) would be a worthwhile addition and if the sliding contacts could allow it to take RCR123A's it would be great?

Barbarin06-25-2007 02:58 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barkingmad (Post 2037465)
Think the dual outputs (maybe 400ma and 800ma) would be a worthwhile addition and if the sliding contacts could allow it to take RCR123A's it would be great?

But what happens if a user select 800 mA and puts RCR123?? This charger is intended as base-car charger for fire, rescue and police station. KISS design philosophy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

barkingmad06-25-2007 03:15 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Would it not be possible to determine the battery type electronically and auto-set the charging rate? Pretty sure an Ansmann charger I have works out the capacity of the battery (NiMH) electronically and sets the charging rate accordingly.

It sounds a good charger but the problem I see is that it also seems very similar to a WF-139 charger - the only real difference being a higher charging rate?

Hans06-25-2007 03:27 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barkingmad (Post 2037475)
It sounds a good charger but the problem I see is that it also seems very similar to a WF-139 charger - the only real difference being a higher charging rate?

I've heard of a couple of cases where the WF-139 went well above 4.20V. Not really ideal, especially when the people using the charger aren't experts.

I think the idea with this charger is to keep things as simple as possible, while using good components to achieve maximum reliability. If this charger is really used mounted in cars, for instance, that's just about the most important thing.

Hans

Barbarin06-25-2007 03:28 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

repeated

Barbarin06-25-2007 03:30 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barkingmad (Post 2037475)
Would it not be possible to determine the battery type electronically and auto-set the charging rate? Pretty sure an Ansmann charger I have works out the capacity of the battery (NiMH) electronically and sets the charging rate accordingly.

It sounds a good charger but the problem I see is that it also seems very similar to a WF-139 charger - the only real difference being a higher charging rate?

Yes, it would be possible, but would make things more complicated and expensive... and at the end Barbolight does not plan to manufacture RCR123 lights.

There are some differences with WF-139, such as certifications and charging circuit and of course the fact that it will end and 4-17-4,19 V. And yes, it is faster.

I do understand that this charger will not satisfy the average CPF'er, who has knowledge of batteries, types, risks... This charger will be plugged for years, and it is designed to charge batteries very often. Each one of its components is intended to last for years and thousands of cycles, with no care from end user.

Regards,

Javier

Szemhazai06-25-2007 03:43 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

It looks great, I'll be able to give my father 18650 Light and he can use it as normal AA NiMH – I'm definitely in for it

x2x3x206-25-2007 04:49 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Would it really be wise to set the charging rate to 800mA, which is kinda pushing 16340 cells? The 800mA will certainly speed up cahrging of 18650 cells!

I believe there are alot of people who are using 16340 cells now, especially since Fenix lights are starting to have circuits to accomodate Li-Ion use, while still maintaining full functionality like the P3D.

Would be a waste if such a well built charger to not support 16340, just my 2 cents...

barkingmad06-25-2007 04:59 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by x2x3x2 (Post 2037491)
Would it really be wise to set the charging rate to 800mA, which is kinda pushing 16340 cells? The 800mA will certainly speed up cahrging of 18650 cells!

I believe there are alot of people who are using 16340 cells now, especially since Fenix lights are starting to have circuits to accomodate Li-Ion use, while still maintaining full functionality like the P3D.

Would be a waste if such a well built charger to not support 16340, just my 2 cents...

Think that was kind-of my point - 800ma is probably too much for 16340 / RCR123A cells - I suggested a lower charging rate as well but they said the charger is not intended to charge those cells.

If it is only intended to charge 17/18500 and 17/18670 size cells - why not put the charging rate even higher than 800ma? Those cells are rated at around 1400-2400mah - so 1200ma would be about 50% faster?

bagman06-25-2007 05:06 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Subscribed to this one, will be very interested in the end result. With the 12v option I can carry one in my duty bag and recharge in the car if needed.

barkingmad06-25-2007 05:37 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bagman (Post 2037498)
Subscribed to this one, will be very interested in the end result. With the 12v option I can carry one in my duty bag and recharge in the car if needed.

AFAIK the WF-139 does 12v as well...

DM5106-25-2007 05:53 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barkingmad (Post 2037504)
AFAIK the WF-139 does 12v as well...

Correct; however there have been concerns about the WF-139 charger not terminating at 4.2v, and it should not be used with unprotected cells.

Tessaiga06-25-2007 08:38 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Please... please have an adaptor to charge C Li-ion and I'll definitely be in for one!!!!

Please consider!!!!

blitzlicht6506-25-2007 08:57 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Hi Javier:wave:,

I have a question about the LEDs in the Barbolight U-15.

Which sort of LEDs are up-to-date in the new U-15-models?

(Your PM-Box is full:mecry: )



Greetings:wave:

coppertrail06-25-2007 09:14 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans (Post 2037479)
I've heard of a couple of cases where the WF-139 went well above 4.20V. Not really ideal, especially when the people using the charger aren't experts.

I think the idea with this charger is to keep things as simple as possible, while using good components to achieve maximum reliability. If this charger is really used mounted in cars, for instance, that's just about the most important thing.

Hans

Agreed, my UltraFire 14500/10440 charger terminates at 4.3V! I have to babysit the cells with a DMM and pull them when they hit 4.1-4.2V. It would he a nice to have a chager for for 18650 cells that terminates between 4.1 and 4.2V.

Barbarin06-25-2007 09:16 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzlicht65 (Post 2037563)
Hi Javier:wave:,

I have a question about the LEDs in the Barbolight U-15.

Which sort of LEDs are up-to-date in the new U-15-models?

(Your PM-Box is full:mecry: )



Greetings:wave:

Edixeon KLC8 Level 2. (Cree EZ 1000 chip)

Barbarin06-25-2007 09:20 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tessaiga (Post 2037556)
Please... please have an adaptor to charge C Li-ion and I'll definitely be in for one!!!!

Please consider!!!!

That would not be a problem for a CPF'er with pliers, wire and some skills.

JanCPF06-25-2007 09:29 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Completely off topic, but Javier, It would be really great if you would offer some of your new Barbolight models (like T-04 and B-04) to us CPF'ers. And also you talked earlier about and Edixion upgrade program for the Lux based U-15.

BTW: I've already talked 4 of my dive buddys from our club into buying a U-15, which makes us 5 in all. My only problem is that the other four have the brighter Edixion models :green:

Jan :wave:

Barbarin06-25-2007 09:35 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanCPF (Post 2037582)
Completely off topic, but Javier, It would be really great if you would offer some of your new Barbolight models (like T-04 and B-04) to us CPF'ers. And also you talked earlier about and Edixion upgrade program for the Lux based U-15.

BTW: I've already talked 4 of my dive buddys from our club into buying a U-15, which makes us 5 in all. My only problem is that the other four have the brighter Edixion models :green:

Jan :wave:

Off topic, yes... but please send us your light and it will be upgraded!

rdh22606-25-2007 09:42 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarin (Post 2037441)
Hello friends,

I appreciate your comments, and as a flashaholic I would like a charger like the one you propose but... It is not intended for experts or flashaholics, but for professionals or people who don't want or don't have enough time to read a dozen pages instructions manual.

Believe me, everytime I fire up my Triton, I fully appreciate that sentiment!

Quote:
It does not need spacers, as it has sliding contacts to charge xx500 or xx650 batteries.
Yay! I'm in for a couple!

Quote:
Reliability is the goal of the design.

(and)

But what happens if a user select 800 mA and puts RCR123?? This charger is intended as base-car charger for fire, rescue and police station. KISS design philosophy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
Personally, I'm not big on the 16340/RCR123 batteries, but...

One KISS solution is actually very simple and fully in keeping with the foolproof
design goal (police/fire/medical/emergency/high-stress): have different slots/cutouts
for the 16340 cells. The 17500/17670/18500/18650 cells go in the long way, and the
16340 go in 90 degrees crossways. Separate contacts, separate insertion, you can NOT
physically insert cells in the wrong (dangerous) way. Foolproof.

Well, ok, not proof against a dedicated fool with a hammer and a roll of dimes intent on
killing himself...

On a slightly different vein, if this charger is intended to be installed (screwed down; semi-
permanent "installation"), then could you please include screw terminals on the back side
for DC (12/24V) connection? About the only thing I hate more than the plethora of wierd
little 12V adapter charging cords is those loose little spacer blocks...

Finally, what about indicators? It looks like you have a LED for each channel (battery), yes?
I hope it's not one of those bi-color (RED/GREEN) setups, hardly foolproof -- a significant
percentage of the population is variously colorblind!.

It would be nice if the state-of-charge was "immediately descernible". For example, flash
the LED(s) on (1Hz 10% duty cycle: on 100ms off 900ms) to indicate "low" charge, blink
LED (1Hz 50% duty cycle) for bulk of the charge (say, battery is "half" charged, for some
vague notion of "half"), flash the LEDs off (1Hz 90% duty cycle: on 900ms off 100ms)
when battery is 90% charged, then steady on when charge cycle is complete. This allows a
fast determination of battery suitability for immediate return to service (for those stressful
situations where you need reasonably-fresh batteries RIGHT NOW).

While one could argue it is a gimmick (well, it is), it's a trivial to implement and near-
foolproof one with positive value-add.

Out of curiousity, do you have a targetted price-point?

Looking forward to your new chargers!

-RDH

barkingmad06-25-2007 01:46 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DM51 (Post 2037508)
Correct; however there have been concerns about the WF-139 charger not terminating at 4.2v, and it should not be used with unprotected cells.

Is this actually true 'now' (or ever?) - I have two WF-139's and never noticed a problem - actually one is charging 2 x 18670's (protected) now so will measure the voltage with my DMM when they are charged.

But would add I have charged both protected and unprotected cells without problem and never noticed the voltage over about 4.16-4.19v.

barkingmad06-25-2007 01:54 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coppertrail (Post 2037574)
Agreed, my UltraFire 14500/10440 charger terminates at 4.3V! I have to babysit the cells with a DMM and pull them when they hit 4.1-4.2V. It would he a nice to have a chager for for 18650 cells that terminates between 4.1 and 4.2V.

Think you mean the WF-138 (for 14500/10440's) - again I have two of these and had no problems - two 10440's straight off the charger - one is 4.14v - the other is 4.15v?

jch7906-25-2007 03:10 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Javier,

Where are these manufactured?

john

barkingmad06-25-2007 03:18 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barkingmad (Post 2037652)
Is this actually true 'now' (or ever?) - I have two WF-139's and never noticed a problem - actually one is charging 2 x 18670's (protected) now so will measure the voltage with my DMM when they are charged.

But would add I have charged both protected and unprotected cells without problem and never noticed the voltage over about 4.16-4.19v.

Ok - charged 2 protected 18670 cells and 1 unprotected 18670 cell - all came off the charger at 4.18-4.20v (tested with 2 different DMM's).

Tronic06-26-2007 12:31 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Nice charger!

I wish the notch to take out the battery would be on the top of the battery. (Who the battery sign is.)
This would make it much easier to take out the battery. (One more thing that I don't like on my WF-139)

barkingmad,

The problem is that the WF-139 don't stop charging if the LED goes green!
At the time the LED goes green I have similar values. But If I leave the cells in the charger a few hours, the voltage rise up to 4.35V on mine!

barkingmad06-26-2007 01:40 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tronic (Post 2037839)
Nice charger!

I wish the notch to take out the battery would be on the top of the battery. (Who the battery sign is.)
This would make it much easier to take out the battery. (One more thing that I don't like on my WF-139)

barkingmad,

The problem is that the WF-139 don't stop charging if the LED goes green!
At the time the LED goes green I have similar values. But If I leave the cells in the charger a few hours, the voltage rise up to 4.35V on mine!

I have left them in for a while - certainly probably about an hour - will test later. How old is your WF-139 - just wonder if perhaps it 'was' a problem but not now (mine is about 6 months old)?

Tronic06-26-2007 02:37 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barkingmad (Post 2037849)
I have left them in for a while - certainly probably about an hour - will test later. How old is your WF-139 - just wonder if perhaps it 'was' a problem but not now (mine is about 6 months old)?

Mine is also about 6 months old. I have purchased mine on 12-15-2006
It seems that there is a big difference between each charger.

JanCPF06-26-2007 05:23 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barkingmad (Post 2037676)
Ok - charged 2 protected 18670 cells and 1 unprotected 18670 cell - all came off the charger at 4.18-4.20v (tested with 2 different DMM's).

Yes, this is very true. Of course you wont notice it if you try it with protected cells because the built in circuit just cuts off. But you should be able to see an increase in voltage from the moment the leds turn green. The increase is very slow, so you need to have them in for several hours. Given enough time though, it will overcharge unprotected cells. My theory why this happens is that the charger 'pings' the cell with a small test current to test the charge level of the cell. But the problem is that Li-ions self discharge is virtualy non existant, and therefor they receive a small charge with each 'ping'.

As this talk about the WF-139 has *nothing* to do with the new Barbolight charger it should probably be moved to another thread

Jan

cy06-26-2007 10:38 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

that's basically true... but talk about other chargers that don't truly terminate, speaks volumes about the quality of what Barbolight is trying to do.

again... greatest danger of using li-ion cells, occurs during re-charging.
so creating your own charger to control safety factor is a wise move.

so far Pila chargers are the only compact charger that truly terminates, that I'm aware of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanCPF;
Yes, this is very true. Of course you wont notice it if you try it with protected cells because the built in circuit just cuts off. But you should be able to see an increase in voltage from the moment the leds turn green. The increase is very slow, so you need to have them in for several hours. Given enough time though, it will overcharge unprotected cells. My theory why this happens is that the charger 'pings' the cell with a small test current to test the charge level of the cell. But the problem is that Li-ions self discharge is virtualy non existant, and therefor they receive a small charge with each 'ping'.

As this talk about the WF-139 has *nothing* to do with the new Barbolight charger it should probably be moved to another thread

Jan

 

[Greta]

More copied replies:

europium06-26-2007 03:33 PM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarin (Post 2037441)
Hello friends,

I appreciate your comments, and as a flashaholic I would like a charger like the one you propose but... It is not intended for experts or flashaholics, but for professionals or people who don't want or don't have enough time to read a dozen pages instructions manual.

It does not need spacers, as it has sliding contacts to charge xx500 or xx650 batteries.

Reliability is the goal of the design.

Regards,

Javier López

I fully agree with the design principle, and do not desire switches that can be incorrectly set and thereby cause problems. I understand others want to charge smaller, lower-capacity batteries, but someone else can undertake development of a charger for them.

I do have a concern, though, and I apologize if this is a dumb question, but ... : What happens if the power goes out after the batteries are fully charged but before they are removed from the charger? Will the charger attempt to charge them again, or will it remember that the cells are already fully charged and do nothing? If the former, will the charger quickly and correctly detect the battery voltage and cease charging?

Eu

Barbarin06-27-2007 04:13 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by europium (Post 2038032)
I fully agree with the design principle, and do not desire switches that can be incorrectly set and thereby cause problems. I understand others want to charge smaller, lower-capacity batteries, but someone else can undertake development of a charger for them.

I do have a concern, though, and I apologize if this is a dumb question, but ... : What happens if the power goes out after the batteries are fully charged but before they are removed from the charger? Will the charger attempt to charge them again, or will it remember that the cells are already fully charged and do nothing? If the former, will the charger quickly and correctly detect the battery voltage and cease charging?

Eu

The question is not to "remenber", but an accurate measurement of the bat voltage. When power comes again charger will detect the batteries and and the end of a few seconds will know that there is nothing to charge.

In fact power outages were one of our concerns, as we wanted to avoid overdischarges in those cases, as a power outage can take hours.

Regards,

Javier López

BTW, the only "dumb question" is the one that you don't make.

Owen06-27-2007 04:34 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

I have the same question as one RDH asked...target price?

Barbarin06-27-2007 04:48 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
One KISS solution is actually very simple and fully in keeping with the foolproof
design goal (police/fire/medical/emergency/high-stress): have different slots/cutouts
for the 16340 cells. The 17500/17670/18500/18650 cells go in the long way, and the
16340 go in 90 degrees crossways. Separate contacts, separate insertion, you can NOT
physically insert cells in the wrong (dangerous) way. Foolproof.
Simplicity is the goal of our designs. We do not have multilevels, strobes... The less number of parts means the less probabilities of failure. Charging RCR batteries not only means different slots, but different charging currents, and duplicate circuits ( more parts).
Another of the reasons is that in fact I don't like RCR123 too much, as I have not found on them same quality as on 18650's. Probably in the world for each RCR123 manufactured are being made one hundred 18(17)650-18(17)500.

Quote:
Well, ok, not proof against a dedicated fool with a hammer and a roll of dimes intent on
killing himself...
Believe me. One thing is selling to flashaholics or hobbiyist and the other to general public. Murphy's law rules.

Quote:
On a slightly different vein, if this charger is intended to be installed (screwed down; semi-
permanent "installation"), then could you please include screw terminals on the back side
for DC (12/24V) connection? About the only thing I hate more than the plethora of wierd
little 12V adapter charging cords is those loose little spacer blocks...
It does not need a cigarrette plug. We preffer a female connector because it is more protected than screw terminals, and some users would like an "easy" removal.

Quote:
Finally, what about indicators? It looks like you have a LED for each channel (battery), yes?
I hope it's not one of those bi-color (RED/GREEN) setups, hardly foolproof -- a significant
percentage of the population is variously colorblind!.
Green/Red is a universal language, nobody needs to read the instructions book.... but you are right about colourblindness. A flashing rate in addition would be a good idea, let me check.

Quote:
Out of curiousity, do you have a targetted price-point?
I hope arround 40 US$ including cables for in-house and car-boat. Making a charger that can stay connected during years means choosing each one of their components on the high quality ones.

Regards,

Javier

labrat06-27-2007 01:49 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanCPF (Post 2037877)
Yes, this is very true. Of course you wont notice it if you try it with protected cells because the built in circuit just cuts off. But you should be able to see an increase in voltage from the moment the leds turn green. The increase is very slow, so you need to have them in for several hours. Given enough time though, it will overcharge unprotected cells. My theory why this happens is that the charger 'pings' the cell with a small test current to test the charge level of the cell. But the problem is that Li-ions self discharge is virtualy non existant, and therefor they receive a small charge with each 'ping'.

As this talk about the WF-139 has *nothing* to do with the new Barbolight charger it should probably be moved to another thread

Jan

This is correct, and most available chargers today will bring non-protected Li-ion rechargeable cells to more than 4.20 Volts if the rechargeable cell is left there after the charger has indicated that the cell is fully charged!
Even the Nano-charger will bring a 18650-cell to 4.20 Volts and more if left connected to the charger too long!
Also 4.20 Volts is estimated to be the most efficient voltage, that means when you bring the cell to 4.20 Volts the rechargeable Li-ion-cell has been loaded with the maximum energy it can safely store.
More voltage is possibly dangerous, less voltage is not efficiently using the storage capacity to the max.

LuxLuthor06-27-2007 02:11 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cy (Post 2037952)
that's basically true... but talk about other chargers that don't truly terminate, speaks volumes about the quality of what Barbolight is trying to do.

again... greatest danger of using li-ion cells, occurs during re-charging.
so creating your own charger to control safety factor is a wise move.

so far Pila chargers are the only compact charger that truly terminates, that I'm aware of.

Agree with all that.

Barbarin, thanks for coming out with this. I would like to see a couple shots of the slider contact mechanism without batteries, and the backside. What does the power adapter & plug look like?

I think there is a strong demand for the RCR123 cells (although I don't have any use for them myself), and agree with rdh's recommendation that they could be put in a new horizontal slot with correct mA which would give it the foolproof feature you seek.

Very promising charger. Thanks!

Tessaiga06-27-2007 03:55 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

I must have missed soemthing here. How long would it take to charge a 18650 from pretty depleted to a full charge??

Still holding out for a C adaptor though as I have absolutely no skills in building one.

lukestephens77706-27-2007 05:37 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

I'd buy two if it could handle RCR123's safely!
I need a quality charger that handles all my cells!
Come on Barbolight... Pleeaase! :naughty:

europium06-27-2007 06:11 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

I am going to go *against* the flow and specifically request that NO R123 capability be included with this charger.

:duck:

I do not believe there is *any* significant demand for R123 capability outside of CPF. Design the charger well and use high quality components, but keep it simple for safety reasons as well as to reduce cost. I may buy 2 or 3 of these chargers, and I do not care to pay for features that I will not use, nor for complications that I do not need.

Eu

3rd_shift06-30-2007 02:38 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

I was just thinking about something.
After the chargers start selling in volumn, why not offer inexpensive resistored cradles for r123's to slow down the charge to them?
R123 goes into cradle, cradle goes into charger.

I have used a 10 ohm resistor to charge my unprotected rcr2's with in full sized dsd chargers without anything blowing up yet.
But I think it was luck.
Try at your own risk.

ampdude06-30-2007 10:44 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barkingmad (Post 2037652)
Is this actually true 'now' (or ever?) - I have two WF-139's and never noticed a problem - actually one is charging 2 x 18670's (protected) now so will measure the voltage with my DMM when they are charged.

But would add I have charged both protected and unprotected cells without problem and never noticed the voltage over about 4.16-4.19v.


This is true, most of the time my Ultrafire WF-139 will not charge batteries over 4.25V if I take them out right away when the light turns green. Sometimes it only charges R123A's up to 4.16V before turning green, I put them in a couple more times to get close to 4.2V.

But I have the trickle charge issue that other people do with this charger. I put some 17500's in Thursday when I was home for lunch. I forgot about them and when I came home and checked them later than night they were both at 4.29V. It freaked me out. Normally I monitor lithium ion cells when I charge them, but this time I spaced it out.

It is still a decent charger for the money though. Does not put out the advertised 450ma, actually puts out 300ma, but it works, so I don't mess with it.

Casual Flashlight User07-01-2007 02:55 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Barbarian, any chance that you can make these a few mm longer?

I'd be sold if I could charge my 17670's on this charger as well as my 18650's...I can't justify buying it to exclusively charge 18650's. :sigh:


Cheers - CFU

Barbarin07-01-2007 10:37 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casual Flashlight User (Post 2039467)
Barbarian, any chance that you can make these a few mm longer?

I'd be sold if I could charge my 17670's on this charger as well as my 18650's...I can't justify buying it to exclusively charge 18650's. :sigh:


Cheers - CFU

In fact they can charge 18670 (protected).

Regards,

Javier

SilverFox07-01-2007 11:22 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Hello Javier,

Do you happen to know the current cut off point at full charge?

Tom

Casual Flashlight User07-02-2007 04:51 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarin (Post 2039573)
In fact they can charge 18670 (protected).

Regards,

Javier

Excellent...I'm definately interested then. It looks like a high quality charger.

Good luck with the project, hope to see it on "the shelves" soon!


CFU

whc07-02-2007 07:40 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Looks very nice, good you want to make a quality charger.

Though I also use both RCR123A and 14500, so it is really the one thing that is holding me back on getting one when released, would be awesome if you could make it to charge about every Li-Ion cell on the marked, like a advanced multi Li-Ion charger, that is really what is missing on that marked if you ask me.

Would gladly pay extra if you maybe would make the circuit more advanced, to auto "read" what kind of battery I insert to the charger, and set the mah after that, so it would be possible to charge smaller batteries as well. Maybe make it in 2 versions, a standard version and an advanced version...???

LiteFan07-02-2007 07:45 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

I would like to see an adapter for C lithiums that could be inserted into the charger, should be cheaper to build and would allow those who want it to purchase it without driving up the initial price.

BTW I am probably going to purchase this charger anyway.

frogs307-02-2007 09:24 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

I second the quest for a charger that will parallel charge C protected LiIons. Right now, the only known cradle has to be imported with some difficulty from Europe.

Is this unit capable of parallel charging?

Thanks,

HAK

Barbarin07-05-2007 10:37 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Here is a picture of the prototype. You may notice that the LEDs are not bicolor, but they are on the production model.

Not shinny or bright colors, but sober matt black. This will be the final color and finish.

They can charge 18650 and 18670.

137 x 60 x 29 mm.

Hans07-05-2007 01:41 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarin (Post 2040551)
Here is a picture of the prototype. <snip>

They can charge 18650 and 18670.

18670? You mean 17670, don't you?

Hans

Barbarin07-05-2007 11:06 PMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans (Post 2040608)
18670? You mean 17670, don't you?

Hans

You are right. It can charge:

xx500 to xx670 (xx=17/18).

For 18670 I wanted to mean the protected 18650's, as they are usually longer than 18650''s (according to our experience 66,7 mm maximun).

Regards,

Javier

Barbarin08-22-2007 09:19 AMRe: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.

Here they are. We are now performing final tests on our chargers. They could be commercially available in one month. So you know, hold a litlle if you want to have a quality Li-ION charger.

They do not overcharge at the end of 24 hours later after the charging indicator has turned green (they really do stop at 4,17-4,19).

As is usual I will start a sales thread for the first units with a 40% dicount or so.

Javier

 

[ak645]

Hi Javier,

Does your charger use the Constant Current/Constant Voltage charging method? Will it come with U.S. plug? Still going to be around forty U.S. dollars? Coming soon I hope ? Thanks!

Andy

 

[Barbarin]

Hi Javier,

Does your charger use the Constant Current/Constant Voltage charging method? Will it come with U.S. plug? Still going to be around forty U.S. dollars? Coming soon I hope ? Thanks!

Andy

The charger is constant voltage, ending charge completely at 4,19V-4,22V.

It comes with Euro cord, US adapter (90-240V. real 85-263V) and car/boat/truck plug (12-24 V. real 8-28V)

We hope to keep that price even lower. It will be here soon, middle of October if there are no delays.

 

[Free]

Will it still charge 18500's or has that capability changed?

 

[Barbarin]

Will it still charge 18500's or has that capability changed?

It will charge 18500, 17500, 18650 and 17650... and easily also "D" or "C" size Li-IONs using these adapters:

 

[Szemhazai]

It will charge 18500, 17500, 18650 and 17650... and easily also "D" or "C" size Li-IONs using these adapter

Looks great :huh:
Can't wait for a sales thread

 

[Gladius01]

Yes, I like the charger. When is this avaliable?

 

[ak645]

Hi Javier,

Will you be selling these adopters?

Andy

It will charge 18500, 17500, 18650 and 17650... and easily also "D" or "C" size Li-IONs using these adapters:

 

[Gladius01]

Any more news regarding this charger?

 

[j3bnl]

It will charge 18500, 17500, 18650 and 17650... and easily also "D" or "C" size Li-IONs using these adapters:

Now this is exactly what I have been looking for, something simple to charge up a "C" Li-ion cell.
Will it be possible to use 2 of these adapters in the charger at the same time?

 

[skalomax]

Same here
I need one of these.

 

[Nebula]

Now this is exactly what I have been looking for, something simple to charge up a "C" Li-ion cell.
Will it be possible to use 2 of these adapters in the charger at the same time?

Good question. I would also like to know whether AW's C Li-ion cells will fit that adapter. IIRC, AW's cells are slightly longer than the Duracell shown in the photo. Thanks. KK

 

[j3bnl]

Good question. I would also like to know whether AW's C Li-ion cells will fit that adapter. IIRC, AW's cells are slightly longer than the Duracell shown in the photo. Thanks. KK

Its AW's "C" cells I have and would like to know if they will fit aswell!!

 

[DM51]

Just looking at that cradle, it is going to be a very tight squeeze - it doesn't look as if there is a long enough spring contact on the negative terminal. Because of the protection circuit, AW "C" cells are 3.5mm longer than the standard 50mm, i.e. they are 26540 size.

If the output of this charger is 800mA, that is ~0.25C for a "C" Li-Ion, which is low, and means a long charging time.

 

[j3bnl]

Agree about the size issues DM, but what "C" Li-ions will it charge if AW's dont fit then?

 

[DM51]

I don't know what other size "C" Li-Ions there might be - unprotected ones [shudder] would be shorter. This cradle looks as if it might be an off-the-shelf battery holder for some appliance that runs off C alkalines - I don't know.

If it was made especially for this charger, it does look nicely made, but Barbarin might want to take the longer cell size into account before doing a run of them and then finding protected C Li-Ions won't fit.

 

[j3bnl]

I don't know what other size "C" Li-Ions there might be - unprotected ones [shudder] would be shorter. This cradle looks as if it might be an off-the-shelf battery holder for some appliance that runs off C alkalines - I don't know.

If it was made especially for this charger, it does look nicely made, but Barbarin might want to take the longer cell size into account before doing a run of them and then finding protected C Li-Ions won't fit.

No way I'd use unprotected cells.
If AW's wont fit and no reasonable alternative is out there I will pass on this as its not worth my while having yet another 18650 charger when the ones I have do the job!

 

[DM51]

On the other hand, he does say in post #7 that it will charge "C" or "D" size... in which case, if the C-size cradle is too short for protected cells, you could use the D-size cradle with a spacer to charge C cells.

But maybe he hasn't started making them yet, in which case he may be able to adjust the size to take account of the extra length needed.