Very poor runtime - SF 6PL and E2DL?

[MDNY]

I recognize that the SF quoted runtimes for these lights is very misleading, since they consider an output of 1 lumen to be "useful" light. For these lights to be useful to me, they need to deliver at or near their rated brightness for somewhere in the 1.5 - 2 hr range.

In both cases I expected to see performance at or near full brightness for at least something close to 2 hours. Since I would never use one of these lights continuously for that time period, all of my usage has been brief, intermittent use, with a max ON time of maybe 1 minute. Both lights have seen many on-off cycles in this manner over several weeks, and both lights now have dead batteries. My estimate is that neither light has seen even close to one hour of total ON time.

I had expected that with intermittent use, the useful runtime at or near max rated brightness would actually be extended, but it appears the exact opposite is true. The most annoying part is that the 6PL effectively became useless after what I would estimate to be 30 minutes of total ON time. The brightness had dropped so low (no measurements, just subjective judgment) that I would have been better off with a mini-maglite incandescent. The added problem of course, is that there was still plenty of runtime left in the CR123As, but not regulated so as to deliver max brightness. So to achieve adequate brightness, this would have meant discarding only partially discharged cells. (These were Surefire cells).

I understand that going to a Malkoff M60L will give me more runtime and lumens from the 6PL, but I assume that unit is also rated based on continuous use. My question is - can I expect to see very short total runtimes, even with aftermarket drop-ins, because of my very intermittent usage pattern? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[NotRegulated]

Welcome to CPF MDNY.

The Surefire claim of 11 hour runtime for their 6PL is true but misleading. It will give you about 3-4 hrs at near max brightness. Here is a recent runtime chart that shows you get about 235 minutes (3 hr 55 min) of near max brightness before it drops off significantly. Even though some light will still be "useful" after 4 hrs that is the point I would change them, so for me, the stock P60L has a runtime of 4 hrs max.

With intermittent use the batteries should not die sooner. Give it a try again with fresh batteries and see what happens. There are reports of some 123's shelf life not lasting as long as stated. If the same condition continues, I would recommend calling Surefire and explaining the problem. The P60L may be defective.

If you want more runtime, others on this board are describing the Malkoff M60L as having much more brightness for the same runtime as the stock Surefire P60L and the Malkoff M60LL as having about the same brightness as the stock Surefire P60L but with an eight hour runtime at that brightness.

 

[Kiessling]

I had expected that with intermittent use, the useful runtime at or near max rated brightness would actually be extended, but it appears the exact opposite is true.

True. Continous ontime heats the batteries and they become more efficient and run thus longer. Feels strange, but some time ago McGizmo did some extended testing and discovered this fact.


The burntime of the P60L (cont.) on 2xCR123 is about 4 hours, and the E2DL should be roughly about 90 minutes, but that is a guesstimate.


In the end ... no one can beat th elaws of physics. Want more runtime ... gets dimmer. Want more light ... runtime shrinks. This is true for SF and the others alike.

The Malkoff M60 will be quite brighter than the P60L, but runes for about 90 minutes instead of 4 hours.

bernie

 

[Kiessling]

Addendum: SFs current runtime informations suck big time, yes. It used to be accurate, now it is marketing BS.
bernie

 

[MDNY]

Thanks for the input. What I'm looking to achieve is a light I can count on to deliver at least 80 lumens, with dead-flat regulation, for about 2 hours. At the end of that run time, I would hope that I've drained the CR123s dead, such that I'm not throwing away batteries prematurely. Having a light that is still functional but putting out 10-20 lumens is useless for my application. (I have plenty of other LED lights that deliver very low illumination levels for many tens of hours, but those are for entirely different applications). No way I came close to 2 hours of max brightness with the 6PL. In fact, SF customer service stated that the 6PL is only rated to produce 80 lumens for "10 to 15 minutes" followed by 60-65 lumens for "2-2.5 hours", declining thereafter to 1 lumen (!) at the 11-hour point.

I'll retest these two lights (esp. the 6PL) and then start looking at the Malkoff drop-ins.

 

[Kiessling]

You can easily get way more than 80 lumens for 2 hours with nowadays emitters.

The P60L was tested repeatedly on CPF and IIRC got always about 4h in regulation. The Malkoffs are brighter an run less long.
The P60L has thermal protection built in which explains the initial drop in output. This is especially important in plastic lights. Other drop-ins do not have this and continue to drive the LEDs with the same current.

 

[Sgt. LED]

M60WL

Best all around utility drop-in made at this time.

 

[Chrontius]

In my experience, the Malkoffs have very flat regulation until the cells just can't take it at all.

 

[pipspeak]

You might want to check the "new" cells you're using, too. I've heard of some fresh cells actually not having a complete charge. Rare but it does happen.

 

[Grox]

Apart from what Bernie has said, which is all correct, the 6PL shouldn't be as bad as a minimag after only 30 mins - it should still be in regulation. What batteries are you using? I've had the same issue with made in china cells.

 

[MrGman]

from MDNY "I had expected that with intermittent use, the useful runtime at or near max rated brightness would actually be extended, but it appears the exact opposite is true. The most annoying part is that the 6PL effectively became useless after what I would estimate to be 30 minutes of total ON time. The brightness had dropped so low (no measurements, just subjective judgment) that I would have been better off with a mini-maglite incandescent. "

You lack of any actual measurements and "subjective" judgement is the first problem. You also don't know if the 6PL had turned on in your pocket accidently a few times or not, running down the batteries. It may have. You may say it didn't but not know for sure. I know my SF 6P has turned on in my pocket several times that I caught and probably more that I didn't.

So your conclusions appear to be contradictory to what every one knows about the real run time of a 6PL with 2 primary batteries. May want to conduct some objective testing to determine if its actually a defective product or just another warping of the time/space continuim again when your not paying attention. Meaning your belief that you only accumulated 30 minutes of actual run time may be far different than 30 minutes.

As a wise man once said, 10 minutes with a pretty girl on your lap seems like only a few seconds.

10 seconds with your hand on the burner of a hot stove is an eternity.

Need something more objective here.

 

[MDNY]

Agreed, a little more testing is needed. But the light has never been spuriously turned on (carry method makes that impossible). Cells used are Surefires with an expiration date of Feb-2018.

Also agreed that my perception may be incorrect relative to the total runtime consumed through many on-off cycles, so I will be looking at that more closely. But absolutely no way did total usage approach 2 hours, let alone the 4 hour period over which the 6PL has been documented to deliver something like 60 lumens or so. A little more investigation needed.

As for the comments on similarly poor runtime with the E2DL, those turned out to be erroneous; appears to have been a switch problem that was causing it to cycle out of HIGH mode, and also to flicker when in LOW mode. After tweaking the switch a bit, the performance on HIGH and LOW is now acceptable -- and still using the same cells. Thanks for all the input.

 

[txgp17]

I get over 2 hours of runtime in a 9P with the M60. It rocks.

I suggest you try a M60L. 140ish lumens with over 4 hours of regulated output on two 123A cells.

I work as a career firefighter, and I keep a 6P with an M60LL tethered to my gear.

If the price of batteries is itching your pocket, try rechargeables.

This charger and four of these batteries will cost you $46 before shipping.

They should give almost 2 hours of runtime in a 6P with a Malkoff M60L.

It would likely be the last light & batteries you buy for a while.

More info on Malkoff's & runtimes with rechargeables here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194879