WA1185 Beam Pattern

[Chodes]

I assembled my first Mag85.
3 x C LIONs in a (approx) 2.2D host , AW incan driver , Litho #2 reflector.
I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of light and the whiteness of the light. I have read that ROPs and Mag 85s are pretty close but I see a noticeable increase for the Mag85.

What was a little dissapointing was the beam pattern.
I get a roundish hotspot , but two distinct lobes as well, extending away from the spot.
Is that the butterfly effect I've heard of?

 

[Brett80]

My recently completed Mag85 has the same beam issues. Mine has a FM SMO reflector and is powered by (3) AW 18650. I used another member suggestion to frost the bottom half of the bulb using glass-etch to clean up my hotspot. The reflection of the frosted bulb in the reflector makes the SMO look almost LOP in the bottom 3rd of the reflector down by the bulb. It has made for a noticably smoother beam for my set-up.

 

[Chodes]

Thanks.
I picked up a used Fivemega deep reflector/bezzle, I assume this will smooth the beam out. I'll have to cut the cam off if I want to try it though.

I have plenty of bulbs so I'll try frosting first.

 

[Northern Lights]

My recently completed Mag85 has the same beam issues. Mine has a FM SMO reflector and is powered by (3) AW 18650. I used another member suggestion to frost the bottom half of the bulb using glass-etch to clean up my hotspot. The reflection of the frosted bulb in the reflector makes the SMO look almost LOP in the bottom 3rd of the reflector down by the bulb. It has made for a noticably smoother beam for my set-up.

Probably was me. I frost the lower 2/3 because anything above the filament does not cast shadow. Here are 1185 adn 5761 frosted that way.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Frosting is one strategy. The Fivemega deep 2" reflector which is soon to be re-released is another way to resolve artifacts and improve throw. Similar improvement with 2.5" Turbo.

MOP or MS (medium Stipple) or Litho #3 (to 7) does a better job of resolving the artifacts. Another reason I need to do shootouts of all these various reflectors and several bulb types.

 

[lctorana]

And there is a third way, far easier than frosting and far cheaper than the big reflector.

Replace your Borofloat lens with...

...the glass from a 50mm magnifying glass from your local "dime store" (have I got the Yank lingo right?)

Will cost just $1.50 and is well worth trying.

 

[Paul520]

"dime store" (have I got the Yank lingo right?)

There dollar stores now, inflation.

 

[Chodes]

And there is a third way, far easier than frosting and far cheaper than the big reflector.

Replace your Borofloat lens with...

...the glass from a 50mm magnifying glass from your local "dime store" (have I got the Yank lingo right?)

Will cost just $1.50 and is well worth trying.

I have to try that!
65,90,110,120mm are the sizes in my local stores. I'll keep trying...

 

[Lumencraft (Matt)]

I assembled my first Mag85.
3 x C LIONs in a (approx) 2.2D host , AW incan driver , Litho #2 reflector.
I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of light and the whiteness of the light. I have read that ROPs and Mag 85s are pretty close but I see a noticeable increase for the Mag85.

What was a little dissapointing was the beam pattern.
I get a roundish hotspot , but two distinct lobes as well, extending away from the spot.
Is that the butterfly effect I've heard of?

I would like to know a little more about this AW incandecent driver. Some explanation, or a link where I can get one maybe?

 

[Northern Lights]

I would like to know a little more about this AW incandecent driver. Some explanation, or a link where I can get one maybe?

AW is a member, has a big sales thread for C and D drivers. Look under member list, AW, then all post started by AW and you will find it, or use the search function.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/member.php?u=6500

V2 Mag C Incan Driver-Soft Start & Multi-Brightness (available) Part 2

V2 Mag C Incan Driver - Soft Start & Multi-Brightness ( available )

Incan Smart Driver - Multi-level and Soft Start

Incan Smart Driver - Multi-level and Soft Start

Mag D Incan Driver - Soft Start & Multi-Brightness

Then again, I apologize, not everyone is familiar with computers and internet functions, here is a good start for you. Good luck, dumb questions are only the ones not asked. Hope this helps.

I have used them in quite a few differenct mods I have done and am an ardant fan of them! They make the 64430 a worth while light with a long burn time at @ 1200 torch lumens at medium mode and topping @ 2200 torch lumens with certain 64430 bulbs. They make the 5761 an all around light tha frankly at 7.2 volts has a much bigger and slightly more torch lumens than the 1185.

 

[Lumencraft (Matt)]

Thanks Northern Lights. I have heard of this before but it didnt iterest me. However today I got my 5761 bulbs and they work fine with my AW C cells, but with the KD 32600x2 pack the light wont come on. I am thinking maybe with a soft start the bulb will not trip the protection curcut. Of course I did not foresee this as being an issue in the first place, live and learn I guess. I appriciate the links, and the swithces are actualy less money than I was thinking they would be.

 

[Northern Lights]

The AW drivers solve the protection trip, that is why I started using them with the 5761 as they draw 4-5 amps! And definately shut down some protections circuit.

At this time I tried some KD D protected lions in a MC with the 5761 and one of the batteries trips, they are supposed to take a whole lot more amps than that but it doesnt. KD does not respond to inquiries; bad service.

My solution in this case as I have the room is to remove the protction entirely and substitue a PCB for a 7.2 V pack at 8A from Batteryspace.com. I have used their PCBs before successfully and they build them to make protected balanced RC pack.

That is another but a little more busy work solution to the very problem you have.

 

[iapyx]

Indeed, the AW incan driver does so.
The three stages (30% 60% and 100%) it offers is also a very nice feature. I have three of 'm now: 2 x M@g5761 and 1 M@g85
Very happy with them.

 

[Lumencraft (Matt)]

The AW drivers solve the protection trip, that is why I started using them with the 5761 as they draw 4-5 amps! And definately shut down some protections circuit.

At this time I tried some KD D protected lions in a MC with the 5761 and one of the batteries trips, they are supposed to take a whole lot more amps than that but it doesnt. KD does not respond to inquiries; bad service.

My solution in this case as I have the room is to remove the protction entirely and substitue a PCB for a 7.2 V pack at 8A from Batteryspace.com. I have used their PCBs before successfully and they build them to make protected balanced RC pack.

That is another but a little more busy work solution to the very problem you have.

Thanks NL

I like the idea about replacing the circut, but I have a few questions.
First do I remove everything? I am guesing there are 2 protecors and some other stuff under the shrink wrap? And could you give me a link for the pcb, I looked at batteryspace for it with the specs you provided, and found this and if that is what you are talking about I am going to need a bit more instrution.

Oh ya.. Also where do you get the glass etching from? We used to get if from walmart a long time ago but I called there tonite and they said they dont have it anymore... or they just didnt find it maybe... but I love the idea.

 

[Illum]

Is that the butterfly effect I've heard of?

your bezels screwed too far up, try one turn backwards or one turn forward

 

[Brett80]

I got my Armour Glass Etch from an arts and crafts store - Michaels. I wrapped masking tape around the top part of the bulb to get a nice clean line and used a Q-tip to generously apply the glass etch.

 

[Northern Lights]

ARMOR ETCH from Michaels or google it, it is common.

Most larger protected batteries have a pcb at one end and a connection at the other.

So, yes you got to remove the shrink and pry these things off but BE CAREFUL this is where you can short the two poles out because you are freeing up that connector. I use Kapton tape to wrap my battery packs now, I bought 3 inch wide tape. It is tougher, thinner and better dielectric than shrink.
The instructions come with the PCBs but I think you can link to them too.
For two D lions I am using the 7.2 Volt, at 8A board. The board amps are maximum for a wide variance of tolerance. These are not tight tolerances.
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=711

I am using this one for the MC,
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2774
I have used this one with AW cells stripped, it does the same just smaller, made for 18650 side by side:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3117
But I found my latest ones were tripping at 5A and not the rated 7A.
In all cases the boards have excess area that can be cut down with a dremel to make them smaller. I cut the latter board down, removing the "ears" and had it fit on the end of the C cell!

 

[LuxLuthor]

Remember that etching high pressure halogen bulbs (as opposed to not high pressure Xenon bulbs) can result in them shattering which would likely damage your reflector. I have only heard of a few cases of this, but just keep in mind. Personally, I would not use a frosted bulb in a prized 2" deep FM or 3" reflector.

 

[Northern Lights]

Remember that etching high pressure halogen bulbs (as opposed to not high pressure Xenon bulbs) can result in them shattering which would likely damage your reflector. I have only heard of a few cases of this, but just keep in mind. Personally, I would not use a frosted bulb in a prized 2" deep FM or 3" reflector.

On the other hand, the 5761 seems to be robust. I have used the frosted phillips 5761 in heavy service and have broken filaments from dropping them and beating the lights up but never busted a bulb but I would never put an expensive reflector head like Lux's into that type of service either!

Maybe, LL, do you know which ones are the more delicate? That is real good information and a very wise caution. There have been some threads about bulbs melting their own envelopes, I believe those were WA models so there is some differences out there.

 

[LuxLuthor]

NL,

I know this happened to an 1185, 1166, and Osram 64623 that were all overdriven. I do not remember if they had banded (lower) frosting, or complete frosting, but both methods weaken the integrity of the outer glass surface to some degree.

I agree that the WA bulbs appear to be under higher pressure as evidenced by the relative thicker glass envelope. I don't mean to say that people should not do the etching, but rather to just take it into account with rare/more expensive reflectors. Obviously some bulbs like the Surefire "M" series come with tip frosting.