What is the best dive light on the market

[Mr Ted Bear]

2thehilt

I can probably give you a great deal of insight about diving in the Cayman Islands, the operators, and what you can expect on a night dive.

Light wise, there are many to choose from. The Princeton Tech Surge is an excellent choice. More than likey, you won't even need it becuase most of the operators provide lights (that is, assuming that you will be doing a boat dive). If not, there are several excellent beach dives, and in which case, you would only need to rent tank and weights to go along with your personal equiptment.

Everything depends on how you'll be traveling. The thing about Grand Cayman, it that it is a diving mecca, and they cater to divers. Generally speaking, rental equipment wise, is all first class. Beware, Grand Cayman is expensinve!

 

[Kenshiro]

Kogatana,
The light in your picture is the 2002 (has nothing to do with the year. The models are just named with the numerals 200X. Currently, they have the 2000 ~ 2004, and two more models, the RAY and the SPITLIGHT)
I have the 2001 and the RAY.
I've been meaning to post some pictures and giving a small review on them, but you know how everyone loves a comparison. And I think the only suitable light for a good comparison was the M6. So, I've been trying to get one, but for the past few weeks, prices have been unstable, and the retailers are all asking me to wait until they get their "new" price guide from SF. So.....

Anyway, I promise I will give a good review as soon as I get my M6.

Let me say this though. These lights are VERY VERY well made. Like I said, I would say it's on par with a surefire. That's how good they really are.
They use Hydrogen-NiMH batteries, which are a step up from normal NiMH as well (both in capacity and quality).
The RAY is 55mm in diameter, which would be about 2.16 inches, and is only 210mm in length, which is about 8.27 inches. So it's roughly the size of an M6 (maybe1/2inch longer), but still has a 3.8Ah battery! And that's rechargable!
It also uses very good bulbs. It's a HLX64250 made by Osram. These HLX bulbs are from the Professional Photo-Optic series, and are currently one of the most efficient (if not the most) halogens on the market (HLX's are xenon-charged halogens, that's what the "X" stands for). The 6V, 20W HLX64250 is rated at 480lm, so the light output should be quite similar to the M6 as well. You can find more info on the Osram website, and the Fa&Mi web site as well, which I will list at the bottom.

Anyway, the other light that I have, the 2001, is a monster of a light (again, I was gonna post this seperately because of the interest in the "Beast and Hellfire", but after I got the M6. Oh well, this will be sort of a "preview").
It is a 12V light with a 3.8Ah cell. but it is not much bigger than the RAY. Diameter is 65mm, and length is 230mm. it comes with a HLX64610 bulb, which is 50W and rated at 1600lm! These HLX bulbs were designed to be used in projectors, so they are extremely bright. One cool thing about the 2001 -- any G6.35, 12V light will fit! Osram has the HLX64625, which is rated at 100W and 3600lm!!!!!
Although, using the 64625 bulb will cause the light to shut down due to thermal overdose (kind of like the 12ZM. Remember, afterall, they are designed to be used underwater!).
Anyway, I will give you the web sites for
1) Fa&Mi Lights, http://www.fa-mi.com/index6.html
2) Osram Bulbs, http://www.sylvania.com/
and
3) Most importantly, where I bought it: http://www.scubamarket.com/eng/tofa0008.php
Send an email to Mauro or Bruno, and they will help you out. Very nice guys. I payed international shipping of about $75 for both lights. They came in about a week. There was a credit card certification process, but other than that, it was a very easy procedure.

P.S. I think it's great that a senior member like you is intersted in this light. Maybe now a lot more people will know about it. Anyway, check out the web sites,and if you need any more info, feel free to ask. I will try to answer them the best that I can.
If you're interested, I'll tell you about the "Beast" of the Fa&Mi line, the 2004. 24V, 4.1Ah.
It comes with theHLX64638, which is rated at 2900lm, but you can go all the way to (theoretically) the HLX 64655 which is 250W and 10000lm!!!!!
Don't know how long before thermal shutdown, however (if it's not under water).
Anyway, hope this helped.

 

[Graham]

Wow!! Those lights look really good (both physically and in terms of specs). I dive too, so am also interested in some serious dive lights..

I'd love to see some beam comparisons, too.

Graham

 

[recercare]

The URL for Technosub is www.technisub.com Check out the Vega series

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I don't know jack about dive lights, but from what I'we seen, Technisub ans Fa&Mi are superior design to UK and PTech.

 

[Kenshiro]

Recercare, thanks for the info on the Technisub lights.
Both Technisub and Fa&Mi are made in Italy. Both are solidly built, great products.
I got the Fa&Mi lights simply because prefer the "look" of the Fa&Mi lights. They are also a bit smaller and lighter for the same power. The specs are very similar, however. Mainly because they use the same bulbs.

The Alulight 50 uses the same lamp as the Fa&Mi 2001. The Osram HLX64610. This light is rated at 50W and 1600lm.
At maximum power, the 2001 is rated at 55 min. The Alulight 50 is rated at 50 min.
The specs are:
1) 2001: 65mm * 230mm, 1300g, 4 hour charge (intelligent), 200m WP
2) Alulight 50: 84mm * 220mm, 1450g, 5 hour charge, 100m WP
Like the 2001, the Alulight can use any compatible 12V bulb.

The Alulight 35 uses the Osram 64275, rated at 35W and 780lm. This is a G4, 6V bulb. So this would fit in the Fa&Mi RAY.
The duration for the Alulight 35 is 30 min. If the 35W bulb was used in the RAY, it would last 39 min.
The specs are:
1) RAY: 55mm * 210mm, 800g, 4 hour charge (intelligent), 200m WP
2)Alulight 35: 85mm * 195mm, 1108g, 14 hour charge, 100m WP

The Vega 100 seems the equivalent of the Fa&Mi2003. These are 12V lights like the 2001 and 2002 and the Alulight 50.
1) 2003: 104mm * 270mm, 23.3kg, 4 hour charge (intelligent), 160m WP, 55 min and110 min (with 100W and 50 W bulbs, respectively.)
2) Vega 100: 110mm * 295mm, ---, ---, 120m WP, 33 min and 70 min
The big difference between the two seems to be that the Technisubs use NiCad batteries, and the Fa&Mi's use Hydrogen NiMH (thus giving them higher capacity).

Anyway, like I said above, they are both great lights.

Kogatana, here's the info you wanted.....
The current "Big Gun" of Fa&Mi line is the 2004. It is a 24V, 4.1Ah light.
It's slightly bigger than the 2003, 107mm * 270mm, 2.4kg. So that would be 4.2in * 10.6in, and 5.28 lbs. Remember, this light is meant to be used underwater, so it uses a heavy gauge metal body. After all, It is depth certified for 160m (528 ft).
Like I metioned before, it comes with the HLX 64638 bulb which is rated at 100W and 2900lm.
You can use any compatible 24V G6.35 bulb. Here is a simple list of Osram bulbs and their run times:
1) HLX 64638, 100W, 2900lm, 60 min
1) HLX 64640, 150W, 6000lm, 36-40 min
1) HLX 64655, 250W, 10000lm, 20-24 min
Like all Fa&Mi lights, it comes with an intelligent quick charger that automatically goes into "trickle charge" mode, when the charging is finished. It will save your battery from "bad charging" effects.
Truly a monster of a light.

Another dive light manufacturer worth mentioning is the German made Kowalski lights.
http://www.taucherlampen.de/kowalen/index2.htm
They also have equivalent lights as those mentioned above (except for the 2004, of course).
Anyway, one thing that is special in the Kowalski line is that they have a HID model, called the "Speed Xenon".
I'm sure both Fa&Mi and Technisub are working on a HID model as well, which would greatly increase run time.

Of course if you really want the strongest dive light (portability not an issue), Halcyon Systems has an array of HID and HMI lighting systems for underwater. But these are very, very expensive.
http://www.halcyon.net/

This brings me to a point of interest.....
HIDs are great (bright, but longer run time), but are still too expensive. Replacement bulbs typically go into 3-digit range and sometimes 4-digits for extensive systems. In contrast, though they use much more energy, bulbs like the Osram HLX series are extremely bright and cheap. You can get them for $5-10 at a professional optics dealer (photographic, film, broadcasting equipment dealer).
To say that they are a bargain compared to HID is, at least for now, an "under-under statement".

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2thehilt:
Welcome all. This is my first time to post since I found you.

I did a search but didn't find anything right off hand.

I am going diving in the Grand Cayman on spring break this year and we are planning a night dive. I have an OK light to use but I was wondering how makes the best dive light, bar none. The brightest/clearest and longest lasting.

Thanks for your help.

Phil<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Recommend Underwater Kinetics HID Light.

Web www.uwkinetics.com

 

[recercare]

There's been many discussions about HID's brightness compared to Halogen. When comparing bikelights the ratio is often 1:3. That means a 10W HID equals 30W Halogen. However, when diving this ratio is not valid. I've heard from divers that the ratio is more like 1:4 or 1:5. That means the Light Cannon 100 would equal a 40-50W halogen. You can get the LC 100 for 200$ if you're lucky. Can you find a 50W Technisub or FA&MI with the same price? And remember, the LC 100 has about 3 hours run time!

If you're looking for a light with less than 50W lamp I would choose the LC 100.

 

[Kenshiro]

Recercare,

Not all halogens have the same efficiency. The ratios of 1:3 or 1:4 or 1:5 don't neccesarily apply for all lights.
As a matter of fact, not all HIDs are equal either. Check out the HID bulbs from Osram, and you will see there is a wide diversity of efficiencies.
If you have a very efficient HID and a very NON-efficient halogen, sure, the ratio could be 1:5 (maybe even more). On the other hand, if you have a very efficient halogen, the ratio could be as low as 1:2.

That's why you should really check the specs if you can. You just can't go using the "quick and dirty" method every time.

Now, if you check the specs for the Light Cannon on UK's web site, you will see that it uses a 10W HID bulb that's rated at 450lm.

As I metioned earlier, the specs for the Fa&Mi RAY with the HLX64250 bulb are 20W, 480lm. It's actually brighter.

You see, in this case, the ratio is actually less than 1:2. Again as I mentioned before, the HLX series of "xenon-photographic" halogens are currently one of the most efficient halogens on the market. These bulbs are used in photographic equipment (like video lighting systems, studio lighting, etc.), as well as stage and film lighting. They are very good bulbs. Also, they are cheap. You can get these for $5 - 10, as opposed to over $100 for the Light Cannon bulb assembly.

The RAY is currently selling for $192 at Scuba Market (also metioned before), so it is quite good. The Light Cannon is a great light as well, but let me mention some of the RAY's merrits.
1) It's smaller than the light cannon. Much smaller. I mentioned the dimensions before as well. The length is almost equal (8.2in), but the diameter is vastly different (2.1in vs. 3.2in), and that's the diameter of the head! The body is even thinner (about 1.7in!).
2) It's rechargable. The light cannon uses 8 C-cells. If you buy NiMH or NiCad, you can also use rechargables, but you also need to buy a seperate charger.
The charger for the RAY is also an "intelligent model", so you don't have to time the charge precisely. If you buy an intelligent charger for your C-cells, that would be equivalent, but again, more money.
3) Instant restart. Here's where the HIDs have yet to match halogens. The restart time for the LC is stated as 3 sec (UKE website).
4) The LC will run longer, yes. If you use alkalines, they should last a good 3 hours as you say. However, alkalines are not designed to provide more than 1 amp of current. The current needed for the LC to function properly is 1.25A (UKE website). So, you're probably better off using rechargable NiCad "C" cells for performance. Plus, rechargables will pay you back in the long run, anyway.
The highest capacity NiCad is about 3000mAh (Sanyo N3000CR), so, they should last you a bit over two hours. This is the real advantage of HID lights. Because they use less energy, they can last longer.
The RAY will last you about 1 hour and 6 min.
5) Last but not least is the "preference factor". I just think the RAY looks COOL.....

Anyway, whichever one you choose, I think you end up a winner.

 

[geepondy]

Kenshiro, thanks for your knowledgable, articulate comments concerning the Fa&Mi lights. Based on what you have posted and from what I've read from the website, I'm surprised these lights have not been discussed before on this forum. I look forward to your further reviews, particularly concerning comparisons against Surefire lights. Obviously these lights have great potential for non-diving applications as well.

 

[Kenshiro]

Recercare,
I see your point.
So you were not talking about the "actual light output" ratio.
You were talking about the "percieved light output" ratio.

Yes, "whiter" light will seem "brighter" due to the way our eyes function. Even though technically, the light output may actually be the same.

But this "percieved brightness" is an area that is quite "shady", if you know what I mean. It is very difficult to "quantify" percieved brightness. In fact, "percieved brightness" is different for different people. That's why I didn't put it into my explaination.

Anyway, it is generally true that the higher color temperature you have, the brighter the light will "seem" to be.

 

[recercare]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kenshiro:
Recercare,

Not all halogens have the same efficiency. The ratios of 1:3 or 1:4 or 1:5 don't neccesarily apply for all lights.
As a matter of fact, not all HIDs are equal either. Check out the HID bulbs from Osram, and you will see there is a wide diversity of efficiencies.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep that's true. However, there're not that many well known HID lights. I can think of three: Cateye Stadium 3, Niterider Storm and Light Cannon 100. Comparing these lights to a standard halogen the ratio 1:3 is pretty valid. Of course the ratio may change depending on the lights, but we're talking about a general ground rule here.

Another point in using HID is the brightness when diving. This has nothing to do with the Wattage-Lumen relation. You gave me some numbers about LightCannon and Ray with ratio 1:2. Yes, according to the techspecs this is true. However, due to whiter color of the HID the real ratio between these two lights would probably be 1:4 when diving and 1:2 when used out of water. The color difference is much more significant when diving.

A friend did a test once. He compared the Light Cannon 100 with a 50W halogen in his back yard. The 50W halogen was much brighter. In fact, even his 20W Streamlight 35X was brighter than the LC 100! However, when diving the LC 100 was equal, if not brighter than 50W halogen.

 

[LEDagent]

Ok, let me throw this question out in the open. Since we are talking about the potential for dive lights on land, how do you think the Light Cannon will do in adverse whether conditions compared to a halogen? i.e. fog, rain, smog, smoke/fire...

I'm guessing becuase of its higher color temp, and it's abitlity to 'outshine' stronger halogens underwater, HID lights may have better performance on land as well...just a guess.

P.S. I don't know why i'm asking this cuz i'm getting the light cannon sometime this week - from a very kind gentleman here on CPF for a VERY reasonable price! Thanks member #6!

 

[Deanster]

So, as an actual diver (here in Puget Sound area, Washington State) where every dive is a night dive (terrible vis), here's my $.02 on dive lights.

For primary lights, the vast majority of recreational divers dive Underwater Kinetics - usually their 8C or 8D models ($60-$80). More of the UK Light Cannon HID models ($200) are showing up, and they will surely impress your buddies with brightness, color, etc. Unless, of course, it floods, or lamp gives out, in which case your buddies will laugh at your $200 paperweight.

I'm a big fan of Pelican's products, and dive their new 8C Nemo divelight ($50)- It's small, cute, and very bright. They also have a big Dive King light ($90) that will knock your socks off, but it's kinda big to lug around.

For a secondary light (and you should ALWAYS have a secondary on a night dive), I usually dive the Pelican 4A Stealthlight ($22). I really like the flat form factor - it goes nicely into a BC pocket.

If you want to get really hardcore, the technical divers dive 'canister' lights ($300-$big number here), with a separate battery pack that rides alongside their tank, or on their hip, connected to the light head by a cable, and the light head held in thier hand. Very nice, esp. with a HID head, but mighty pricy for recreational use.

As for using surefires or other lights that aren't really designed for dive use - there are 3 really good reasons not to: 1) most 'surface' lights are only waterproof to 100 feet or so, which is great for rivers, puddles, rain etc. However, recreational divers routinely dive to 120', and you should never take anything to its maximum depth - it's just playing with fire. For this reason, most dive lights are rated to 500' or so, so you're nowhere near the failure point. 2) Good rule of thumb is to avoid taking into the water that you might want later - having a dedicated dive light means that if you loose it, you haven't lost something you use elsewhere. 3) many/most 'surface' lights don't have good lanyard attachment points, where ALL dive lights have a retention mechanism - which helps to avoid invoking rule 2.

 

[Kenshiro]

Cones,
Welcome to the CPF.
I have the RAY, because I prefered the design over the spitlight. I think the RAY just has a more solid, masculine kind of look.
Anyway, you might have guessed from my earlier posts that I will be posting a review with pics comparing the Fa&Mi's to the M6.

Well, glad to tell you that I got my M6.
I know all you guys want to see the posts now, but give me a little time to get everything in order.
Mr Ted Bear is stopping by this week so that we can have a evaluation together.

Anyway, I will tell you this much. The M6 has a more focused beam than the RAY. Because the RAY is designed to be a dive light, it has a more "diffused beam" than the tactically-oriented M6. Light ouput wise, I would say the M6 is a tad brighter. The specs are 500lm vs. 480lm, but as PK says, specs don't always tell the whole story.
The 2001 clearly has more output than the M6, but again the M6 has a tighter center beam.
From what I can tell, however, you want something to carry around, so the 2001 probably is not your cup of tea.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Kenshiro,
Very informative posts.I'm going to get a
[email protected] don,t know which model.They do make
HID models that is most probably the direction I will
go.I had a light cannon ,but was not happy with it took
it back three times.Do you have any info on FA@MI
HID

 

[Kenshiro]

Mantamet,
Sorry to say, but Fa&Mi doesn't make HID lights as of yet (to the best of my knowledge).

If you read the thread thoroughly, you can get a lot of info on what they do have.

Or you can feel free to ask any particular questions.

 

[Cones]

Hi, I have been Lurking for a few months but have learned a great deal from these forums. They have also made me realise that a may have a slight problem with collecting them. After buying the following Arc LE, Eternalight X-Ray, P Tech 40, Photon Fusion & Photon III. I would like a bright rechargeable torch that is not too heavy to carry around and think that the following lights may be close to ideal.

I am seriously considering buying either the Fa & Mi Ray or the new Spitlight. Same output but different body design. I was considering a rechargeable Surefire but I am concerned about the cost and spares availability with shipping to the UK. The Fa & Mi light are about £167 (Approx $240) including a 4 Hour smart charger from many UK diving shops.

Would you recommend operating these lights out of the water for extended periods of time? Are there any drawbacks with these lights? What is the beam quality like compared with a comparable rechargeable Surefire? Are we talking about a comparable brightness to the X10 Dominator?

Many Thanks for your help & advise in advance.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Kenshiro,
Check this out. http://www.fa-mi.com/catalogo/catalogo2002.html