What's Missing? Sub-C bodies, that's what!

[Daekar]

After looking at some pictures of Elephants (B-E-A-UTIFUL) I started thinking, surely it would be possible to make some bodies which could hold Sub-C cells in sets of 6, 9, or 12. I did a little geometry, and just holding the batts together in a 3-cell triangle, the overall diameter comes out to 49.2564mm - or about 50mm. Obviously a battery holder or battery-pack will be a little wider than that, but not by much if it's designed properly. For reference, the OD of a mag head is ~ 56.6mm by my ruler. If I'm not mistaken, that's a fairly reasonable size. The reason for this is it will allow longer runtime than AAs, simple as that - especially since NiMH Sub-Cs are available in 3600mAh, 4000mAh, and 4500mAh ratings - and those ratings are for higher current draws (The 4000mAh doesn't have it because those are new, but the 3600 and 4500 both show discharge curves for 30 amps). So VERY conservatively (assuming that these ratings are given at the same low current that AA batteries are, which isn't true) you'd be looking at anywhere from 2 to 2.5 more capacity per battery - and they're good for fast charging, plus they're NiMH so they won't konk out on you after a few hundred hard cycles (or a few years) like Li-Ion will.

It would be great if these bodies were implemented in similar fashion to the original elephants so innovations like the D-sized incan driver could be put into use! So what do you say FM? Would it be possible to offer 6SC, 9SC, 12SC (or 2x6SC) battery holders and bodies to go with them? There would be a whole new breed of long-running LED-smashing HID-competing (or killing) hotwires out there!

 

[mdocod]

from the "what's missing" thread:

Something that makes use of Sub-C cells, since they are the mainstay of the RC crowd, they have some of the best advancements and cells available. 4500mAH in a package the length of a AAA and less girth that a standard C. Honestly I'm not sure what configuration would be best, maybe a 3x sub-C with a bezel supporting D26 lamps, maybe a 6 sub-C running 2 a breast that has a magish size head (turbo). Would be great for running globes like the 5761 for almost an hour in a package the length of a 2D.

 

[aljsk8]

id love to see sub c cell flashlights incan and led

 

[Daekar]

from the "what's missing" thread:

Hey mdocod, thanks for pointing that out! I was beginning to think I was the only one that wanted to use these cells.

I do like the idea of running D26 lamps like that - would be cool if there were D26 lamps at that voltage that generated higher output by increasing current drain, because these cells would just shrug it off and keep on trucking.

 

[KevinL]

mmmmm.......

I would definitely be up for a six-SubC. Make mine a straight 'stick' please.

Less girth than the Mag-C (I don't like the diameter of the MagD), no wasted space, no grinding the tailcap.....woooohooooooo!

BTW, the ROP is brighter than a 10W HID. I have a nice 10W Mag2HID (8AA) with WA Solarc lamp and while I like it a lot, the ROP still wins in terms of absolute output. The HID throws further and has better beam collimation though.

 

[mdocod]

yep, Sub-C has a lot of potential IMO and would love to see everything from single cell formats (for LED) up to big monster jobs...

I think Power Packs like we see on power tools (they contain usually like 15 Sub-C cells for the 18V systems) would be great for a compact handheld spotlight, several hundred watts would be no problem.

 

[Daekar]

mmmmm.......

I would definitely be up for a six-SubC. Make mine a straight 'stick' please.

Less girth than the Mag-C (I don't like the diameter of the MagD), no wasted space, no grinding the tailcap.....woooohooooooo!

BTW, the ROP is brighter than a 10W HID. I have a nice 10W Mag2HID (8AA) with WA Solarc lamp and while I like it a lot, the ROP still wins in terms of absolute output. The HID throws further and has better beam collimation though.

It depends on exactly how much output you were planning on getting, but an easy way to create what you're talking about would be (as I posted in the US upgrade thread) to make a 1-cell extender for the Ultrastinger, which would give you 6xSC. After you replace the lens with a glass one, you should be able to drop in any number of different bulbs. If it will take an ROP-Hi or 5761 bulb (or is it 5671? I forget...) that I'd say it's just about the perfect mod. I hope somebody finds a nice reliable source of US lenses...

yep, Sub-C has a lot of potential IMO and would love to see everything from single cell formats (for LED) up to big monster jobs...

I think Power Packs like we see on power tools (they contain usually like 15 Sub-C cells for the 18V systems) would be great for a compact handheld spotlight, several hundred watts would be no problem.

I didn't know that the NiMH power tool packs were SCs, but that makes sense! That makes me even more interested - not that I want to go to Lowe's and buy a few tool batteries for tool I don't own - in trying these things out in high-output applications. It really is too bad that powertool work-lights come with plastic bodies... because that would be a perfect platform right there. There would be the inevitable lens replacement, but the reflector in the one I have is already metal (a pleasant surprise) so a simple bulb-change plus a sputter-job to fix the beam a bit would've been all there was to it. Too bad... I guess we'll have to get out our thinking caps and see what we can come up with. I do hope FM is reading this thread - I get the impression he feels like he's running out of new and original fun things to build, and it makes me want to help - I think some cool new ideas could come out of this.

In all my spare time (yeah right ) I might try to build a 6xSC or 12xSC on the cheap... metal piping, plumber's torch/solder stuff, heavy-duty switch... it'll be a ridiculously ghetto looking contraption, but maybe I'll start a new fashion trend. It'd be cool to get that kind of power from scratch...

 

[MikeSalt]

The only problem with Sub-Cs is self-discharge. They were designed by the R/C crowd with two things in mind, maximum capacity and maximum current delivery. The trade-off is that they self discharge like a sinking photocopier. Don't expect anything left in them after a week or so.

However, I absolutely love the idea. If you could make a bulb to run at 1.5 volts, you could have an E1E-sized pocket rocket. These cells will comfortably give you 15 amps, which is 22.5W per cell. You could run a ROP-Hi on that power. All you need is a bulb that is low voltage, but high current.

 

[monkeyboy]

The surefire L7 and commander series use Sub C. The B90 pack uses 3 sub C 1800mAh NiCad. This is pretty dated technology but I managed to get hold of a couple of Silverfox's replacement packs that use 3700mAh GP Nimh cells. Self discharge isn't too bad either; I've left them for a few months without use and they still have a reasonable amount of charge left.

Only problem is, I haven't seen any bright incan bulbs that run on 3.6V so it probably wouldn't be so good for modding.

 

[KevinL]

The only problem with Sub-Cs is self-discharge. They were designed by the R/C crowd with two things in mind, maximum capacity and maximum current delivery. The trade-off is that they self discharge like a sinking photocopier. Don't expect anything left in them after a week or so.

However, I absolutely love the idea. If you could make a bulb to run at 1.5 volts, you could have an E1E-sized pocket rocket. These cells will comfortably give you 15 amps, which is 22.5W per cell. You could run a ROP-Hi on that power. All you need is a bulb that is low voltage, but high current.

Which is wierd because my Sanyo 3600's have the lowest self-discharge of ANY NiMH battery I have with the exception of Eneloops...

I left a ROP with 6-SubC pack sitting for literally six months and expected it to be fully drained. I stuck it on a Triton and the charger cut off only after around 1000mAH, with the pack back at full voltage and full performance!

I did wonder at times whether Sanyo was pioneering some aspects of what would eventually become the Eneloop, in those cells.

 

[mdocod]

the issue of Sub-C cells and their self-discharge came up in another thread recently, Silverfox was pointing it out to me when I was recommending the use of Sub-Cs for a pack in another thread, as I understood, Silverfox was implying that the highest capacity cells, like the 4000-4500 suffer from self-discharge really bad, but that the cells up to around 3600 (IIRC) behave more like normal NIMH cells as far as self discharge goes. So you could basically just choose the discharge rate and capacity you are willing to compromise on.

The only production lights I am aware of that take the sub-Cs are the SL stinger/ultrastinger series. Those are NiCd and only like 6 and 10W respectively, nothing too impressive.

 

[jumpstat]

I'been using sub-c cells for many years now(RC). I can say from experience that these cells does deliver the amps but....once fully charged it needs to be used. Failing so would be detrimental to the condition of the batteries especially NimH. These cells corrode at the terminals if left charged and unused for long periods....something like you see on car battery terminals. Also these batteries needs conditioning now and again so maintenance is a must. Still prefer the Lit-Ons as they are lighter, higher voltage and easy to care.....