Which one is brigther between Stinger HP and SF M6

ChadS

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
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8
Location
SF BayArea, CA
I've been searching everywhere on CPF for the comparision between the 2 (or there are no comparision?) and can't find an answer. Sorry if this question has been asked before.

I just got myself hooked on these flashlights and looking to pick up a new toy. Something that's brighter than my current SF A2 (which I just got last week). Have an eye on the SF M6 but it's still a little over my budget, plus it takes 6 123s at a time. I'll go broke feeding this puppy with batteries. Stinger HP is 3 times cheaper, plus it comes with rechargaeble battery, which won't cost me anything for a while, until I need to get the replacement.

Between the SF M6 (250 lumens) and SL Stinger HP, which one is brighter? Since both company use different measurement and I have no way of comparing lumens to cp. If the answer is the M6, how does it compare to the Ultra Stinger HP?

Eversince I've found CPF couple of weeks ago, I've already bought an SF A2, G2, Arc AAA, Pelican M6 (on order), and will soon order one of these big boys. All thanks to you guys for such a valuable information everyone has provided here.

Please help. Need to spend more money soon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

keithhr

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 21, 2003
Messages
1,388
Location
bay area California
BrightNorm posted this the other day

brightNorm posted this the other day;
Space Needle II faces down incandescent wolf pack

Initial comments and observations

The Space Needle II, mounted in a 2C Maglite, is powered by three 123 lithium cells and substitutes a 5W Luxeon for the standard incandescent bulb. It display's Charlie Wong's usual superb job of design and execution. The focusable Luxeon is mounted on a round plate precisely placed within the reflector's center aperture. The batteries are securely held in a thick rubber-like tube which prevents any rattle, even when the light is vigorously shaken. As is usual with Charlie's mods, the Luxeon has been carefully selected for quality and brightness. The light is "direct drive".

IMPRESSIONS, TESTING MODALITIES AND COMPARISON TESTS

Both the "whiteness" and intense brightness of the Space Needle II were unexpected and impressive. When projected upon a light surface the color can be described as a brilliant, cold, moon-like white. However, when looking (obliquely) into the beam, the similarity to an HID beam is striking.

Beam analysis

Beam analysis will concentrate on size, intensity and throw as determined by indoor and outdoor testing. Run tests were not conducted since runtime was not a design consideration of this light. The first series of indoor tests measures the SN II's hotspot diameter compared with that of nine incandescent lights: SF D3/SRTH/N2, SF D3/P91, Tigerlight, MagCharger with "bright" standard bulb, UltraStinger, Stinger HP, PolyStinger, TACM III and Pelican M6.

Hotspots

Hotspot diameter, along with wattage, reflector characteristics and lamp efficiency correlates with intensity and throw. However, the distribution of total energy between the hotspot and the surrounding beam sometimes accounts for seemingly contradictory results from one light to the next. The D3/SRTH, PolyStinger, D3 P91, and Pelican M6 have fully textured reflectors which project a relatively amorphous beam making hotspot measurement difficult. This was somewhat less problematic with the D3/SRTH since its tight focus was more clearly delineated and thus easier to measure. The D3/P91's beam was so broad and smoothly graduated that an accurate hotspot measurement was not possible. No attempt is made here to measure beam "brightness" per se, as major reviewers have developed sophisticated techniques for this purpose.

Several of the tested lights had what can be described as a "hotspot nucleus" or a "hotspot within the hotspot", which is a smaller, brighter spot inside the regular hotspot. The lights exhibiting this were the MagCharger, UltraStinger, and Stinger HP. It was this "nucleus" that enabled the MagCharger to outthrow other lights in a previous test.
[
INDOOR TEST #1: Hotspot diameter

Smallest Hotspot diameter at 24'

Space Needle II: 37"
D3/P91: 30"-50"*
D3/SRTH/N2: 21"
Tigerlight: 20"
Pelican M6: 19"
Polystinger: 19"
MagCharger: 15"
UltraStinger: 15"
TACM III: 15"
Stinger HP: 10"


The second indoor test series compared the total output of these lights and was performed in two stages. The first utilized the Meterman LM631 light meter. The second relied on subjective impressions obtained through several methods.

Metered comparisons of "total output"

These tests do not measure beam "brightness"

To repeat: no attempt is made here to measure beam "brightness" per se, as major reviewers have developed sophisticated techniques for this purpose. These tests aim to determine a light's total output by measuring INDIRECT brightness only, achieved by shining each light at a precise point on the ceiling from a specific position on a table. These results should proportionately correlate very roughly with rated lumens, and suggest a lumen rating for unrated lights. Please note that these tests are for comparative rankings only and are not definitive measurements of light energy. Thus, numerical values should be considered as abstract units only.


INDOOR TEST #2 (METERED) "TOTAL LIGHT OUTPUT"

D3/P91: 27.9
Tigerlight: 26.9
Space N. II: 24.6
Ultra Stngr: 23.2
MagChrger: 22.7
D3/SRTH/N2: 22.2
Pelican M6: 19
TACM III: 18.3
PolyStinger: 18.2
Stinger HP: 18.2

There is some question as to whether the P91's wide beam spill was reflected more powerfully into the Lux meter's sensor, perhaps by adjacent walls, than the TigerLight's. The identical results for the PolyStinger and Stinger HP help to validate the testing procedure, since despite having different beams, the two lights have identical wattage and output.


Subjective tests for total output

These evolved out of a curiosity to see how closely "eyeball" tests correlated with instrumented tests. Methodology combined several techniques including an eyes-closed "substitution" test, an eyes-open reflection test and other attempts to measure the total amount of light projected within a room. Each of the incandescent lights were compared in turn with the SpaceNeedle II.


This list shows the subjective impression of relative brightness grouped by those lights which seemed brighter than the Space Needle and those which seemed "dimmer".

Brighter (appearing) light is in bold type

SN II D3/P91
SN II Tigerlight
SN II Magcharger

SN II UltraStinger
SN II TACM III
SN II Stinger HP
SN II D3+SRTH+N2
SN II Pelican M6
SN II Polystinger

The subjective list matches the instrumented list except for the MagCharger which measured lower than the Space Needle.


OUTDOOR TESTING

Methodology

As in the past, due to crowded urban conditions I have developed my so-called "Vertical throw tests". I pace off a specific distance from a building as measured by pedometer, with compensation factored in for turns and corners. Then I select an aim point on a tall building and count the number of floors, conservatively assigning 10 feet per floor. I may sometime reverse this procedure, counting floors first. When I have my distance and height, I use Pythagoras to derive the hypotenuse, which equals the total distance of the test. Accuracy can't be exact but is pretty close because I measure very carefully. I try to enlist the services of at least one witness, usually more. They are non-Flashaholic friends, colleagues and my generally tolerant girlfriend. I have added the SureFire M6 to the following tests.


VERTICAL THROW TEST #1

Tested: SPACE NEEDLE II, SUREFIRE M6, TIGERLIGHT

Height: 140' (14 floors)
Distance: 40'
Total distance: 146'

When tested by itself the SN II easily illuminated a broad area of the 14th floor, appearing very bright with a subtly blue-tinted white light that was strongly reminiscent of automobile HID headlights in color. When compared with the Tigerlight however, it was clear that the Tigerlight's beam was considerably smaller in diameter as well as significantly brighter. The Space Needle was then tested directly against the SureFire M6. The TigerLight was excluded from this test since comparisons with the M6 are well covered in other reviews. See:


url=http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=34870&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1]NEW TEST RESULTS FOR TIGERLIGHT AND M6[/url]


The M6 brilliantly illuminated a large portion of both the 13th and 14th floors, and overwhelmed the beam from the Space Needle. It should be remembered however that the M6 has similarly overwhelmed the beams from many powerful lights. (reference previous thread)


VERTICAL THROW TEST #2

Tested: SPACE NEEDLE II, SUREFIRE M6, TIGERLIGHT

Height: 140' (14 floors)
Distance: 260'
Total distance: 295'

The Space Needle comfortably reached the target, but with a much broader beam that had paled considerably from the previous test. The impression was of a "wash" of light rather than a "beam" of light. The M6 retained considerable power and illuminated virtually the entire top of the building with a diminished but still remarkably potent beam.


Additional observations and comments

Reflector

When I first received the space needle I saw what appeared to be an unusually brilliantly polished reflector, much "shinier" than that of the MagCharger. Then I recalled that Charlie had installed a UCL lens on the light. It was the true transparency of the lens that created the illusion of a brighter reflector, and allowed the passage of approximately 8% more light.

Wavelength

A question remains: how do the differing light wavelengths of the Space Needle II and its incandescent challengers affect subjective perception of brightness as well as metered "perception". Is it a factor?

Human brightness perception (apart from wavelength)

Humans can supposedly differentiate between hundreds of thousands of different colors, between many different odors, between the faces of hundreds if not thousands of other humans. Is there a similar sensitivity to nuances of brightness? The tests results are heartening by tentatively pointing in that direction.

Perceptual bias

I always knew which lights I was testing. This was unfortunate in terms of genuine objectivity which can only be achieved through well controlled double-blind tests.

Beam diameter

The SN II was at a powerful disadvantage in the throw tests because of its large beam diameter. The Mag reflector is a good one but does not permit the Luxeon to focus tightly without incurring the notorious "donut hole".


Technical Limits

LED manufacturers have demonstrated their ability to make increasingly brighter LEDS, but relatively low LED efficiency at higher power levels remains a serious problem. According to some estimates, efficiency of 30 lumens per watt will be achieved within a year, followed by 50-60 lumens per watt in four years.


Conclusions

Charlie Wong is among the vanguard of modders and creators who are pushing the envelope of LED capability. His Space Needle II, along with lights from other modders, points the way toward a future world of lighting dominated by the LED. At the same time, new incandescent technologies like Tungsten Lattice lighting are nipping at LED heels. The next few years promise to be exciting ones for the members of CPF.

Brightnorm





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arioch

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 26, 2002
Messages
390
Location
maui,hawaii
Own a SL Stinger XTHP; don't own a SF M6, but the M6 is clearly brighter than the Stinger, although I couldn't tell you to what order. They are in different classes of lights, I think. More comparable with the Stinger HP would be the SF 8NX,8AX, or 9AN.

The SL Ultrastinger is a very good light, which I think is more in the range of the SFM6. Why not spring for a US? it is 3 to 4 times cheaper than an M6. The US is rechargeable (which makes a difference even with the cheaper SF 123 lithiums), and parts are also cheaper. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Uuhh... just saw the post above mine ... nevermind. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
 

Size15's

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 29, 2000
Messages
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Location
Kettering, England
The Stinger HP was a rather pathetic offering from what I've seen of it. The M6 outclasses it significantly.
Comparing the HP to the M6 is in my opinion like comparing the MagAA to an M3.

If you are after impressive output - the long-throw rechargeables such as the TigerLight, MagCharger, SL20X (with SL35X bulb) and the UltraStinger are far better options.

The M6 puts out more light with it's MN21 lamp then any of the about rechargeables. It's designed and intended for a different purpose to the rechargeables.

I suggest that you get an 8" TigerLight if you want something the size and shape of the M6 or the [new] MagCharger - I find my 8" TigerLight far more easy to carry and use compared to my UltraStinger (which is too long and thin)

With the price of SF123As, I use one of my M6's a lot more then my rechargeables because I find rechargeables too much effort (got to put them back on charge and transport the charging kit when you need to take it anywhere. Transporting spare SF123As is easier for me.

Al
 

BuddTX

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Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Messages
2,521
Location
Houston, TX
[ QUOTE ]
Size15s said:
The Stinger HP was a rather pathetic offering from what I've seen of it. The M6 outclasses it significantly.
Comparing the HP to the M6 is in my opinion like comparing the MagAA to an M3.
Al

[/ QUOTE ]

Respectfully, the Stinger HP is a very nice, bright, 40,000 rechargable, compact, lightweight incandecent light.

A very nice light, esp considering the size.

While my Space Needle II is much whiter, the HP actually out throws my SNII.

My friend has a Streamlight Stinger HP, and I get to see it being used almost every night when we go walking with our dogs. (we walk for over an hour, in the wilderness where we can let them run off lead, so we get to use our lights a lot!)

I do not own a M6, so I cannot do a direct comparison, but the M6 is probably the brightest production incandecent flashlight made (not including spotlights), but, with all due respect to Al, calling the Streamlight HP "pathetic" and "like a MagAA to an M3", is not fair to the SL HP.

I think the Streamlight HP is a great, relatively small, rechargable, 40,000 CP light with a very good (not SureFire perfect, but very good, non the less) beam.

Now that I own a NexNeedle, Space Needle, and Space Needle II, I am going through 123a batteries pretty fast. (Glad Surefire now has a good price on them!) One of the things I like about the HP (but would be true of any rechargable), is how constantly and reliably bright that thing is.

While walking the dog is important, it is not mission critical, and I use my batteries until is is very noticable that the battery is almost dead, and it must be nice to grab a light that is "always at it's brightest".
 

Francois1

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Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Messages
134
Location
France
Hi Al,
how would you compare the total output and throw of the M6 with MN20 to the tigerlight ? Is it possible for you to provide us comparative beamshots with these two lights ?
As a side note, I've ordered the 9NT and I'll let you know how it compares to M6, srd3 and d3+T2 in terms of throw.
If you're still interested in 3" turboheads, please email me.

François.
 

Size15's

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 29, 2000
Messages
18,415
Location
Kettering, England
I was underwhelmed by the HP - in fact I was disappointed. My "pathetic" comment reflects my feelings of being let down in terms of beam performance compared to SureFire's KT5... Perhaps it was also because there were far more impressive flashlights nearby to compare it against (as I mentioned). The Stingers are reliable dutylights used by many many LEO by the majority of reports. Making them bulky with a HP head means having to change the method of carry. If you have to that then there are more impressive flashlights that give you more and better light. Just so we understand I also think the 8AX/8NX with KT5 suffers from the same carry issues.

François,
If I change my mind I'll email you. Thanks!
The beams of the TigerLight and the MN20 are different in light distribution. I would say that the TigerLight puts out less total Lumens then the MN20 although they are more concentrated. It's difficult for me to tell though.

Beamshots? I've not yet found a good way to take them with my camera. It is one of my aims.
I know you'll be pleased with your 9NT. It has the most solid long range beam that I've seen.

Al
 
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