Which welder?

[alexmin]

Not having a welder really limits my possibilities in general and I have several specific projects in mind that require welding (building a lathe stand for starters)

Since I can't afford to buy more than one welder it should be pretty universal unit in terms of what kind of metal, thickness etc. it can weld.
Which would you recommend?

Let's say my budget for a welder is $600

I took a TIG welding class at local community college but I am open to other type of welders(MIG, Arc etc)

BTW I don't have any welding accessories so please feel to make any suggestions on helmet and other welding stuff.

 

[steveo_mcg]

Stick (ARC) is easily the cheapest but hardest to learn. MIG is described as squirt and play and if you have the budget for it the easiest to use. TIG is mega bucks and only really worth it if your wanting to weld exotics or very thin steels.

 

[gadget_lover]

I have a Lincoln SP100. Nice points are:

Continuously variable amps
Continuously variable wire feed speed
Wire is electrified only when I squeeze the trigger.
Uses standard Lincoln parts
Plumbed for gas (argon-co in my case).
Runs on 15 amp or 20 amp 110 volts.
It's easy to use.
It's easily portable.
It will really put out 100 amps with a 30% duty cycle.

It will do 12 gauge steel ( .105 inch ) without any hassles or extra work.

I like it. It's worked well for what I've used it for so far. My limitations were space to store it and power; only 110 available where I can weld.

Here's the standard advice....
Get a 220 volt unit. Power = amps x volts, so a 220 volt, 30 amp circuit can supply a welder with 6.6kw of power but a 110 15 amp circuit only provides 1.6kw. That limits the power that the welder can deliver to the work. Twice the power is roughly twice the depth that it will weld.

Get a unit that has local parts available. It sucks to be halfway through a project and have to wait for UPS to deliver the part you need.

Get a unit with a high duty cycle. A 200 amp welder that can only be used for 60 seconds out of 10 minutes gets old fast. Besides, welds are best if continuous.

Using one with multi taps off the core to determine power is OK, but that means you don't get any of the fun tricks that a solid-state system can do for you.

The Lincoln Power MIG 180C should be able to do what you want without any hassles. It comes with the parts needed for using gas, but will use flux core to do 1/2 plate in one pass.
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?P=42422 You should be able to find that near your price range.

BTW, add another 150 for the bottle and a full charge of gas.

Dan

 

[gadget_lover]

In the SF area, there are welders on Craigslist all the time. You have to catch them fast, because they tend to sell quickly if they are a good buy.

Dan

 

[350xfire]

I bought a 230V Harbor Freight MIG for less than $200. I am no welder, but it has done anything I needed to...
For $200, I'll buy another one, when and if this one ever breaks!

 

[c670809]

Like gadget_lover said, keep an eye out on craigslist. I bought an old Linde stick/TIG for $550. It's really nice to be able to weld just about anything.

 

[gadget_lover]

The big difference between the cheap imports (hf units) and the more sophisticated ones is controls.

I have a "90 amp" HF flux core welder too. I bought it from HF on sale for $90. It has a choice of high or low, So that's 2 'heat' settings. 60 or 80 amp, and nothing in between. Doing thin sheet metal (and thin wall tubing) was a challenge. Burn through is a constant problem.

There are also little safety features... The wire of the HF is live whenever the unit is turned on. That makes it fun some times.

It sounds like Alex has had some training, so probably already knows most of this stuff.

Regarding gas; I'm still not 100% clear on the pricing structure in my area. I ended up buying a charged 65cf argon/co bottle for $150 including taxes. I think I got ripped off, since the date on the bottle is more than 10 years old. At my rate of use that gas will last a year or two.

A wise crack from the welder supply guy; "It will last a long time for hobby use, until you forget to shut it off." So I saw a 20cf bottle on sale at (ugh) HF and picked it up as a backup. I'll have it filled with either 100% argon or 100% co2 so that if the main bottle runs dry I'll be able to finish a small job in a less efficient way. Argon would let me try welding aluminum, co2 has deeper penetration for the same power.

So the moral of the story is, "If buying used, the tanks may be worth a lot more than they appear, even if empty."

Dan

 

[alexmin]

I did some research on TIG welders. Looks like in order to get a TIG similar to what we were using in the class I need to spend about $2000
I recently found that a new TechShop opening up in San Francisco. For $125 monthly membership or $50 for a day pass you can use any of their machines including TIG, MIG etc.
Although I prefer to have my own equipment TechShop might be the way to go.

 

[gadget_lover]

The tech shop is where I took some welding classes. I learned enough to be dangerous. I also learned how nice MIG was compared to flux core.

The techshop is a mixed bag deal. Before you can use their TIG, you need to take a class on that particular piece of equipment. Once you have done that you can come back to use the facilities at the rates you mentioned. Using the MIG or OA will add another class or two.

BTW, before investing in techshop too heavily, search the web for mention of the Portland Oregon branch closing abruptly. It seems there is a lot of money to be made setting up a new location. Maintaining it may or may not pay.

I've not been back recently, but I have been checked out on their mill, lathe OA and MIG welders. It was worth it just to confirm that my small shop stuff worked as it should.

Daniel

 

[KC2IXE]

A lot of folks don't realize it, but OA welding is very flexible, and there are a LOT of times a braze or a silver soldered joint is "good enough"

I've seen demo'd, but not done, REAL Al welding with Aluminum - Man does the flux flare like crazy, and you need special goggles, but it really does work (and I'm NOT talking about those cheap rods you see sold at woodworking shows)

Found a page that is very similar to what I saw/read

http://metalshapers.org/tips/white/aluminum-welding/index.htm

 

[cmacclel]

I watched craigslist for a couple months before finding my Lincoln Pro 175 for $600. It appeared that it had never been used as the Tig foot pedal didn't even have a scratch. Some cleaning and some new paint for the cart and you get this

 

[precisionworks]

do 1/2" plate in one pass

There are a few machines that will do that, but they're the size of a truck with a price to match :nana:

When material thickness is over 1/8", the edges need a bevel & the bottom of the bevel needs a gap (open root). The maximum penetration in conventional TIG or SMAW welds is in the region of 1/8", while MIG welds can be 1/4" using flux cored wire. If the job spec requires a full penetration weld that's as strong as the base metal, the edges have to be prepared.

Lots of work does not require that the weldment be as strong as the base metal. I worked for a contractor last week, welding 1/4" thick I-beam flanges to a 1/4" thick base plate. The welding procedure called for stick welding using 1/8" diameter 7018 electrode, which runs at (about) 130 amps in the flat or horizontal position. If you look at the photo below, the I-beam frame (black metal) supports the modular office unit:

Look also at the concrete footings at the bottom of the photo & the metal plates can just be seen. Even though my portable welder has 300 amps capacity, the welding procedure dictated the rod size to use, which limited the correct amperage to about 130.

One big difference between low priced & higher priced machines is duty cycle, and more money generally buys more duty cycle. For that reason, it makes a lot of sense to buy a machine rated at 175 amps or more, even if most of your welding is done at 125 amps.

 

[Mettee]

I will stay short and say buy as much welder as you can for the 600 and get a Lincoln

 

[archer6817j]

+1 on the Tecshop idea. If you can stand the drive you won't need to buy a welder At least you could get some experience with MIG/TIG before you decide to buy one.

 

[gadget_lover]

My biggest techshop problem...

I need to bring the work to the shop. That's 30 miles for me. Gas is not a problem, as I have a Prius. Bringing big things (like a stand for my mill) IS a problem, as I have a Prius. I can bring the metal to the shop, but fitting anything over 4' x 3' x 2' in my trunk is a not going to happen.

Just another thing to keep in mind when you set up your trip to the shop.

Daniel

 

[RADDWURX]

Bought a millermatic 135 over a year ago usw ar/co2 and love it. It can work in 115or220 mode as i dont have 220 yet i needed 115. Has not let me down but its 1100. or so bought from indiana oxygen. free shipping

Also picked up a miller dynasty 200dx off craigslist with less than 3hrs on it, a photographer bought it to make a stand for a job then put it up for sale -lots of controls to play with though-

 

[mototraxtech]

If they even get the shop CO-OP going here that I keep hearing about I will be their first member. That would be the greatest. I don't REALLY need any machines with what those shops general have in them. Beings that I don't run a business out of the shop I don't use it that much so that would be awesome.

Also we have a f-350 dully so getting the big jobs in is a breeze! Might even give us a reason to drive it!

Personally I only have experience with the Lincolns and they are nice. Especially the bigger one. Are HS shop had ALOT of welders. In fact we had about 30 welders and 15 students and they were all Lincolns except for one of the tig/migs

 

[AaronM]

I have a Millermatic 180 with a spoolmatic aluminum gun. The whole setup with two gas bottles cost around $1500 and I can weld steel, aluminum and even stainless in a pinch.

 

[precisionworks]

I have a Millermatic 180 with a spoolmatic aluminum gun.

+1

That's a very nice setup. I use a Miller Spoolmatic 30A (industrial duty cycle) and it does awesome work - the Spoolmate 100 is a lighter & much less expensive version of the 30A.

The Millermatic 180 is a solid machine for under $1000. It has a 30% duty cycle at 135 welding amps, meaning you weld for 3 minutes & rest the machine for 7 minutes.

If you plan to weld heavier materials, or need more duty cycle, look also at the Millermatic 212. Twice as much money, twice as much duty cycle - 60% duty cycle at 160 amps. It's a little beast :devil: This machine uses the heavier (and more expensive) Spoolmate 200.

It's a lot like buying a lathe ... get the largest one you can afford.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.php

 

[precisionworks]

You could also do as I did ... go see your friendly (?) banker, provide volumes of documentation, sign your life away, and get one of these:

Hard to see $8k there, at least according to my wife. It paid for itself in under three years :thumbsup:

The engine drive is a Miller Trailblazer 302. 100% duty cycle @ 300 amps (MIG and fluxcore), 100% duty cycle @ 280 amps for stick welding.