Will LED Flashlights Ever Produce More Output than HID's
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jahxman
Enlightened
They already do; the Electrolumens KONG-12 puts out over 10,000 lumens.
If you mean from a single emitter/bulb, they already do that too - the SST-90 puts out more lumens than many HIDs.
It's true that if you are talking single emitter/bulb, the brightest HIDs are still a lot brighter - and LED technology will need to improve considerably to shed the heat needed for a single LED emitter to put out as much - so probably the HIDs will have the upper hand there for a while. But with improvements in heat management, I can certainly see LEDs eventually surpassing HIDs.
If you mean from a single emitter/bulb, they already do that too - the SST-90 puts out more lumens than many HIDs.
It's true that if you are talking single emitter/bulb, the brightest HIDs are still a lot brighter - and LED technology will need to improve considerably to shed the heat needed for a single LED emitter to put out as much - so probably the HIDs will have the upper hand there for a while. But with improvements in heat management, I can certainly see LEDs eventually surpassing HIDs.
waddup
Flashlight Enthusiast
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in 10 years im sure there will be a single AA 'primary' light that can do 5000 lumens for 2 hours.
and in 20 year we will all have double that output fitted to our foreheads at birth, and run it of our own bodies naturally generated electricity.
20 years after that the sun will implode and flashlights is all there will be for light and warmth.
stock up
and in 20 year we will all have double that output fitted to our foreheads at birth, and run it of our own bodies naturally generated electricity.
20 years after that the sun will implode and flashlights is all there will be for light and warmth.
stock up
richardcpf
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In 10 years we will have night vision eye inplants, no flashlight will be needed.
About the main question, i think it is subjetive. If they made a 40-die emitter, or a super large singledie led, it would be able to generate more lumens than a hid bulb. But they can also make a giant hid bulb and power source as well.
Outdoors Fanatic
Flashlight Enthusiast
It's the Surface Brightness what really makes HID stand out from other light sources, not just total output.
lctorana
Flashlight Enthusiast
Got time to explain that? I'm curious.
monanza
Flashlight Enthusiast
I am not an expert, but high power HID's are just north of 100 lumens per watt. LED emitters are now in the range of 120 lumens per watt. So the two technologies have close efficacy.
For absolute lumens, HID is probably more reliable at this time but as LED efficacy improves the gap will shrink. Personally, I now lean towards HID for 1,500+ lumens.
Now I have to go start spending on HID lights. Time to start saving.
For absolute lumens, HID is probably more reliable at this time but as LED efficacy improves the gap will shrink. Personally, I now lean towards HID for 1,500+ lumens.
Now I have to go start spending on HID lights. Time to start saving.
Outdoors Fanatic
Flashlight Enthusiast
Check this out: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=125819
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=139958
Very interesting post, everybody should read it -->> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1731938&postcount=20
That's why LEDs will never be able to do something like that.. They have atrocious surface brightness and it is only getting worse as die-sizes are increasing or multi-LED/multi-cores are being used to crank out more output.
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tab665
Flashlight Enthusiast
heat is also a very big obstacle facing LEDs.
AnAppleSnail
Flashlight Enthusiast
The idea being, "LEDs have a given surface brightness and are made brighter by larger dies," right? And so the inevitable postage-stamp-size 1000-lumen single-die emitter coming out next year will need huge optics to be as useful as an HID source, which is much smaller and more intense?
And yes, I'll have to finish reading these threads; they look fun.
It will be tough to do more output than a 1000w metal halide... HID's output is way beyond the handheld market already.
I don't think this thread even applies.
I don't think this thread even applies.
marinemaster
Flashlight Enthusiast
I love my HID but weight and runtime is the shortcoming. Price too. Really unless there is a larger area or out in the country or open space I can do without HID. LED have come a long way and they can almost hold they own against HID. That said HID are a different application compared to LED.
Outdoors Fanatic
Flashlight Enthusiast
Actually, as output increases, HIDs easily beat LEDs in runtime. A Polarion Helios PH40 cranks out 4150 lumens for a full hour and 20 minutes in regulation. Show me a portable LED light which can do the same. These superpowerful LEDs need in excess of 9Amps to achieve something even 50% close of that output, but try doing that with a portable battery pack plus a portable cryogenic station in order to keep it cool... Just not happening.
csshih
Flashlight Enthusiast
nah... I'd think chemical energy, even if 100% efficiently converted to light would not be super bright like that.
unless you're talking about nuclear AAs
I have a feeling there will be a radical new technology at one point that will give a jump in LED efficiency. Thats how these things seem to happen, in sudden jumps, then slow developement, then jump.
think about it
5mms leds were "WOW!" for awhile, then came luxeons, then came Crees.
I too am not a fan of multidie emittors, as far as im concerned, thats cheating.
Eventually, LEDs will reach insane lumen/watt ratio, and be able to actually take alot of current, which will give it the ability to outdo HID. If not led, then some other radical technology will do to LEDs what LEDs did to incans.
Crenshaw
think about it
5mms leds were "WOW!" for awhile, then came luxeons, then came Crees.
I too am not a fan of multidie emittors, as far as im concerned, thats cheating.
Eventually, LEDs will reach insane lumen/watt ratio, and be able to actually take alot of current, which will give it the ability to outdo HID. If not led, then some other radical technology will do to LEDs what LEDs did to incans.
Crenshaw
Outdoors Fanatic
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yeah, that's the very basic idea. But even with huge optics, that hypothetical stamp-sized single-core LED will not throw light as far as mercury-arc, xenon short-arc and HID.
Outdoors Fanatic
Flashlight Enthusiast
That's going backwards on the evolutionary scale of efficiency, and totally defeats the application of LEDs in portable illumination devices. :thumbsdow
Those SST50-90 LEDs are able produce nuclear-meltdown temperatures at max spec current as it is, so I don't think the flashlight market wants any other LED capable of higher currents. Those obviously are not emitters made for handheld lights.
Actually my point is that its not an impossible notion that eventually LEDs may reach a level of efficiency that will allow them to surpass HID in per Amp output, and actually be able to take the required amps to outdo lower level HID.
look at current single die leds. The maxium they can do is 1A, perhaps 1.2A before they get dagerously close to going
what i mean i by higher current, is current matching those of HID and Incan. I imagine that future technology will let them take up to 4amps, and have en efficiency graph that doesnt detioriate as fast.Yes, i agree it will take a while yet, or may not happen at all, because leds are just so darn small, there is sure to be some kind of thermal theoratical maximum.
Again, im not talking about multidie emittors.
Crenshaw
waddup
Flashlight Enthusiast
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wow, id take either of those :candle:
