WOW I did not know alki cells were THAT bad!

[samgab]

Impressive! Also explains why I though Lithium had a flat discharge, I was talking about the packs used in RC, referee to as LiPo. (Which I can see is LiFePO4 shortend)

No, LiPo is Lithium Polymer, different again to LiFePO4. Different terminologies. One is a shortened form, and the other is chemical info. Google each and you'll find heaps of info.


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[StorminMatt]

Impressive! Also explains why I though Lithium had a flat discharge, I was talking about the packs used in RC, referee to as LiPo. (Which I can see is LiFePO4 shortend)

Technically, LiPo is lithium polymer. Although lithium polymer batteries COULD use LiFePO4 chemistry, they mostly use LiCo chemistry. And, like LiFePO4, they are frequently used in RC cars. But just like conventional cylindrical or prismatic LiCo batteries, they do NOT have a flat discharge curve.

On the other hand, although LiPo technically does NOT refer to conventional cylindrical or prismatic LiFePO4 batteries, it is frequently used to refer to these batteries, since, as you say, 'LiPo' is often looked at as a shortening of 'LiFePO4'. But although lithium polymer and lithium iron phosphate are actually rather different batteries, they do have one thing in common. Both are capable of high discharge currents. This causes further confusion between the two.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Technically, LiPo is lithium polymer. Although lithium polymer batteries COULD use LiFePO4 chemistry, they mostly use LiCo chemistry. And, like LiFePO4, they are frequently used in RC cars. But just like conventional cylindrical or prismatic LiCo batteries, they do NOT have a flat discharge curve.

On the other hand, although LiPo technically does NOT refer to conventional cylindrical or prismatic LiFePO4 batteries, it is frequently used to refer to these batteries, since, as you say, 'LiPo' is often looked at as a shortening of 'LiFePO4'. But although lithium polymer and lithium iron phosphate are actually rather different batteries, they do have one thing in common. Both are capable of high discharge currents. This causes further confusion between the two.

Then what is the chemistry of RC car batteries that are Li-Po? My charger for RC batteries has one setting for Li-Po and one setting for Li-Fe, indicating that they are charged differently.

When the alkalines in my wife's camera are too low, or my son's little trains get sluggish, it is a simple matter to put the 'spent' batteries into flashlights that are just used around the house where absolute brightness is not needed. At some point they are kaput but the alkalines got utilized pretty fully. Alkalines have their place, as has been said.

 

[StorminMatt]

Then what is the chemistry of RC car batteries that are Li-Po? My charger for RC batteries has one setting for Li-Po and one setting for Li-Fe, indicating that they are charged differently.

Like I said, calling LiFePO4 a LiPo is a colloquialism rather than a technical term. So the Li-Po setting is for lithium polymer and Li-Fe is for LiFePO4. As for the actual chemistry, 'lithium polymer' means that the battery uses a polymer electrolyte rather than a liquid electolyte. But the actual cathode material can be anything. However, the vast majority of lithium polymer batteries use a conventional lithium cobalt oxide cathode.

 

[samgab]

For anyone who is confused about "Li-Po", LiFePO4​, "LiCo", "Li-Fe", LiMn2​O4​, LiCoO2​, LiNiMnCoO2​, and all of the other plethora of terms and chemical mixtures used for the li-ion range of batteries (and other chemistries too, such as NiMH and NiCd), I recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005KBB74M/?tag=cpf0b6-20

I've found it very helpful in gaining a better understanding of this field.

 

[AnthonyMcEwen2014]

I original before I came to this fourm though Lipo RC packs were not lion (which I see is correct) the formula LiFePO4 just confused me into think I was wrong and that is was a lion!

Turns out I was original right :fail: I always knew LiPo stood for lithum polymer just when I saw that post I assumed lithum polymer was LiFePO4, dont know why, moment of stupidness!

But as you said its easy to confuse them!

Off to that Linky me now goes!

Gomma go read that link now!

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Just the sample selection from that e-book is very interesting.

 

[mcnair55]

I need a new anorak.:nana: ,cannot wait for Lipo to be used in a flashlight, will be reading about all the explosions and near misses.

 

[AnthonyMcEwen2014]

I'm thinking Highvolltage Super overdriven LEDs, running of 6-12s lipos?

Kidding!!!

Although the idea of a more than 5000 man lipo sounds nice, you know something like this should give nice runtimes on a 800-1000 lumen light....just saying!


http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=35549

 

[samgab]

I original before I came to this fourm though Lipo RC packs were not lion (which I see is correct)...

But Li-Polymer cells or batteries ARE Lithium-ion cells. It's really Lithium-ion Polymer.
Because the lithium component in Li-Po cells is not metallic lithium, but an intercalated lithium compound (an ion).
So Li-Po packs ARE Li-ion, just a specific TYPE of Li-ion. Stormin Matt explained about the difference in the electrolyte composition.

 

[fyrstormer]

All batteries use ions, because ions are just electrically charged atoms. The chemical reactions happening inside the battery generate ions. If there were no ions inside the battery, there would be no electrical charge.

 

[mcnair55]

I think this thread is fast becoming i know more than you about batteries, can we all just agree if we treat batteries with respect and then we can enjoy our lights.

 

[gravelmonkey]

I think this thread is fast becoming i know more than you about batteries, can we all just agree if we treat batteries with respect and then we can enjoy our lights.

I just substitute li-ion for lion. Makes reading much more entertaining.

 

[AnthonyMcEwen2014]

"#52"

True XD, my last reply, I'm just gonna read any further replays then let this thread die and sink away, its off topic anyways, it was original about alkileaks rember, way back in the beginning...

XD, gave me plenty to think about though.

 

[Nano-Oil.com]

Anthony,

Treat all batteries with respect that is the best advice i can offer,will not be long before we have Lipo batteries in a flashlight and they can be really dangerous.They are used extensively in the radio control model hobby and you can buy charging bags to contain the explosion.

typical question on an r/c forum

I see all kinda of threads and info about lipo batteries blowing up, burning up, catching fire etc. Do I really need a bag to keep the battery in while charging and storing? I'm looking for a no BS answer here. I see way too many topics across the internet riddled with "they will blow up!" and the like. It reads like paranoia and really makes it seem like using lipo batteries is a waste of time because they have problems.

I have 3 different LiPos and I've yet to have any problems with them, but I know there are certain risks. I always store them in the sack when not in use. When I charge, I always keep and eye on them. Paranoia? Maybe, but ask the guys who've lost their house or car (not the RC one) to a LiPo fire if it's paranoia. I look at it like this: a bag costs $20. It's pretty cheap insurance and it adds 3 seconds to your charging/storing procedure.

So Anthony more for you to worry about.

Hello McNair,

Very good advice, how ever, one should mention the discharge rate seen in R/C

these guys are wild, generally not following given specs by bursting the power needs by many Cs. while wanting light weight specially in flight R/C.

some of the Amps Draw I have come across in 4 wheel and On Water Racing are insane. :huh:

and I am sure that a lot of operator do not match them to the size of their batteries, it is a fact that some of us will push the envelope.
I would be very interested to find out if an organization keeps track of such explosion and or fires,
I will look into it and report if I am succesful.

 

[adam83]

Then what is the chemistry of RC car batteries that are Li-Po? My charger for RC batteries has one setting for Li-Po and one setting for Li-Fe, indicating that they are charged differently.

Just to add about your RC battery charger, the Li-Po setting charges up to 4.2Volts/cell and the Li-Fe setting charges up to 3.6Volts/cell.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Just to add about your RC battery charger, the Li-Po setting charges up to 4.2Volts/cell and the Li-Fe setting charges up to 3.6Volts/cell.

Thanks, I was wondering about the differences.

 

[mcnair55]

"#52"

True XD, my last reply, I'm just gonna read any further replays then let this thread die and sink away, its off topic anyways, it was original about alkileaks rember, way back in the beginning...

XD, gave me plenty to think about though.

Come on Anthony down the pub while they exchange anoraks.:nana:

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Thanks to all who changed this thread from a "complaint thread" to something that had interesting information.